Dialog
By Mitch Berg
For the past fifty years, it’s been one of the most consistent, constant themes in American politics; the media trend left, and when in doubt shades conservatism; conservatives in turn distrust media and its motives.
For the past forty years, National Public Radio has added the cherry of prim, smug elitism to the sundae of media bias. From Nina Totenberg wishing AIDS on Jesse Helms to the excision of Juan Williams for thoughtcrimes to everything to ever pass the lips of Bob Garfield or Brooke Gladstone, to their burgeoning involvement with George Soros, NPR has been an audio museum of the recent history, mores and prejudices of the American center-left mid-to-upper class for two generations.
For the past thirty-plus years, Minnesota Public Radio has been the soundtrack of Minnesota’s relentlessly-earnest, Volvo-driving, free-range-alpaca-wearing, St. Olaf-educated, Wellstone-worshipping set. From Garrison Keillor’s corrosive bigotry to the inexplicable employment of Catherine Lanpher to Keri Miller’s on-air toenail-painting of DFL politicians to the incessant, clubby assumptions (my favorite a few weeks ago; my neighbor, Marianne Combs, responding to the fact that four male GOP Senators announced the caucus’ response to the Amy Koch flap with a giggly “well, of course they were all men – it’s the Republican Party!”), MPR is broadly regarded as the new source of record for upper-midwest progressivism, Of course, this blog owes a fair chunk of whatever prominence it has to Garrison Keillor, if indirectly; It was almost ten years ago that pointing out the screechingly obvious about Garrison Keillor put this blog on the map; my first Instalanche, 30,000 hits or so back in November of 2002, drove Shot In The Dark’s traffic from 30 visitors a day to 300 a day, literally overnight. Shot In The Dark is the blog that Garrison Keillor built, in a sense.
And so conservatives and the media – public and commercial – sit like the Hatfields and the McCoys, behind their parapets, winging the odd zinger at each other, secure in their assumptions.
———-
So let me step outside the fortress for a moment and wave a white hanky of truce, and walk back just a tad of orthodoxy.
Because for a good chunk of this past twenty years or so, Minnesota Public Radio’s newsroom (as opposed to their programming department) has done a decent job of trying to do a balanced, or at least a detached and apolitical, job of covering the news. It’s not been perfect – but they’ve taken a much better run at it than, say, the Strib’s editorial board.
In and among the bureaucracy down at the Taj Ma Kling, nestled amidst “American Public Media”, is the “Public Insight Network” (henceforth “PIN”), an ongoing project to develop a broader, more diverse set of sources and feedback for their news coverage and programming.
Last week, a PIN producer, Melody Ng, contacted me. Part of her job – and a very frustrating part, apparently – has been to develop more conservative sources.
And according to Ng. it’s been slow going.
Conservatives apparently like to keep the mainstream media at arms’ length – public or private.
We had a great talk about the whole relationship between conservatives and the media. My theory – some conservatives are wary of the Jane Goodall-like anthropological approach to some journalists’ approaches to conservatism, in addition, many of us who’ve had some dealings with the mainstream media have seen our words yanked out of context and turned into something we didn’t intend.
(For what it’s worth, my experience with MPR – I’ve been interviewed a few times by Jess Mador, have been a guest on the late, lamented “In The Loop“, and have gotten one of the most flattering comments my writing has ever gotten from Bob Collins – has been good)..
Anyway – I said I’d be happy to help.
And along those lines, I thought I’d toss a few questions out to my audience.
- What do you think about conservatism’s relationship with the regional media, and most specifically Minnesota Public Radio (and, naturally, vice versa)?
- Is engagement with the mainstream – especially (in this case) public – media worth it if your’e a conservative?
- What persuades or dissuades you to/from engaging with an effort like, to pick an example, the Public Insight Network?
- Indeed – had you heard about this particular APM effort?
By the way, Melody has been running a series of surveys over at the PIN’s site for quite a while now, trying to gauge peoples’ opinions. She’d love to get some feedback on them from you.
- What does “conservative” mean to you? This one actually resonates with me – I’ve written about what the word “conservative” actually means, depending on who you ask, quite a few times on this blog.
- What first got you excited about politics? This one is always interesting.
- What government regulations help or hinder your work or business? This blog’s audience has never been reticent about that subject.
- And here’s a question for the college students in the audiece: What’s it like being conservative on your campus? That’s obviously a hot topic here – conservatism’s and conservatives’ treatment in education at all levels. Evan Maloney made a whole movie on the subject; Katie Kieffer could write a book on the subject, I suspect.
Depending on the answers we see, I may do a survey of my own here, soon. Stay tuned.
And by all means, sound off!
January 16th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
She sends me those surveys too.
Mitch,
When John Hinderaker was on MPR about a month ago, it was the best programming I have ever heard.
It would be nice to hear you on MPR, but I think you would get so worked up your head might explode.
January 16th, 2012 at 1:53 pm
Public radio began catering to an urban, white,college-educated audience in the late 70’s – early 80’s. This was a conscious decision. It has failed at its mission to serve the broader public.
Any rapprochement between conservatives and state-owned media needs to begin with an admission of that fact. NPR and its affiliated stations have never admitted to having a liberal bias.
January 16th, 2012 at 2:16 pm
My relationship with the regional media is much like a battered spouse. Except in my case, I ain’t going back for more.
January 16th, 2012 at 2:17 pm
What persuades or dissuades you to/from engaging with an effort like, to pick an example, the Public Insight Network?
See above.
January 16th, 2012 at 2:19 pm
“Now that Al Gore has given us the normal, unbiased take on the issue of global warming, to explain the conservative view of the topic, we go to Andrew Sullivan in Boston.”
January 16th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
“Keri Miller’s on-air toenail-painting.” Goodness, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a more apt description of what she does. Well done.
As for the questions, I’ll say this: Engaging with PIN is not really engaging with MPR, NPR or the media in general. It’s engaging with a tiny project, which is almost nothing in the scope of the whole network. Should they truly want to “engage” with conservatives, it needs to be a thorough reconsideration of all they hold dear. Not just putting up a quote from some blabbermouth “conservative,” but rethinking the assumptions that underlie nearly all of their reporting. I don’t doubt the sincerity of the person or persons spear heading this project, but unless it filters throughout the company, it will amount to nothing.
One other thing. NPR/MPR, as part of the general mainstream media are pretty much just the gatekeepers of a dying media form. It would never have dies but for the internet. And but for the internet, there would have been no reason for MPR to even consider whether there are any conservatives out there.
January 16th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
“Is engagement with the mainstream – especially (in this case) public – media worth it if your’e a conservative?”
Public radio frames all references to conservatism from an outside-looking-in paradigm. Twenty years ago I swore off all MSM, making me a free-range conservative. I can learn all I need to know about the news of the day from alternate media – and I do. If MPR asked for my opinion, I would pass gas and say “you can quote me.” The only time I tune into local news is when weather threatens. The only news MSM gets right is the body count on a plane crash. Everything else seems to be opinion surgically crafted as fact. Instead of complaining about their ubiquitous influence, I have chosen to seek Truth in arenas they are wholly unacquainted with. My silent protest is never reported by them, but that’s fine because, in my world, they’re irrelevant.
Other than their duplicitous, double-standards, presumptive intelligence and overbearing narcissism, I think they do a fine job.
January 16th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
Look at the questions in the survey, for God’s sake. Can you imagine PIN ever taking a similar approach to liberals? Conservatism is the mainstream in virtually every community in the US outside of politics, academia, and the media. Look at the PIN list of partners: https://www.publicinsightnetwork.org/partners/. There only interest is in defining and co-opting conservative voices.
I can go through an MPR or NPR story and blue-pencil the liberal bias: Illegal immigrants referred to only as “immigrants”, liberal activist organizations only identified as “civil rights advocates”, over-coverage of organized labor and environmental issues, uncritical acceptance of stories of US wrong doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc, etc, on and on.
And what questions do they ask?
“How do you describe your conservative values?” [Not “your values”, “your conservative values ]
What experiences shaped those values?[Someone needs to look up “ad hominem” in the Wikipedia ]
What do you find difficult to talk about with conservative acquaintances? [Who cares? ]
What common ground can you count on? [Probably the opposite of the ideas the drone that wrote these questions holds dearest]
And of course they want you to identify your gender and ethnicity. More fuel for ad hominem.
Until NPR/MPR admits that they are an organization funded by liberal foundations, that they are managed and staffed by liberals, and that they serve an audience made up of liberals it is useless to talk to them.
January 16th, 2012 at 7:29 pm
What does “conservative” mean to you?
It means small government, low taxes, less regulation and more freedom
What first got you excited about politics?
2004 election, keeping that creep Kerry out of the Oval Office was my sole goal in that one. Not so much pro-Bush as I was anti-Kerry
What’s it like being conservative on your campus?
You know for all the horror stories told, my experience wasn’t actually that bad. Of course some of that might have had to do with the fact that I was big (literally, what liberal is going to want to piss off someone who is 6’4 250) and strong headed. If you are meek about your conservatism be prepared to be walked all over. If you are strong and can debate you will do well because there are a TON of closeted conservatives on campus who will whisper to you to keep it up, I know that’s part of what kept me going. Also if you want good grades you probably should keep your mouth shut. I can’t help but think at least part (not all mind you) of the reason I flunked out of the U was me getting unjustifiably marked down but you know what? I didn’t care. First thing you need to do to survive on campus, find the college republican group and hang on for dear life, you might also get some dates out of it too. College is a proving ground for conservatives, if you can make it there you can make it anywhere.
January 16th, 2012 at 7:33 pm
Terry for everyone of those answers you could put “go fuck yourself” in and they would probably use the data for actual analysis
January 16th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
Very true, Terry.
It’s an interesting paradox that conservatives well understand liberals and their positions (such as they are) – heck, many conservatives were once liberals. But, in general, liberals have no idea what it means to be a conservative. Nor that the Republican party is not, in general, conservative. Nor that being a conservative does not imply religious. Or social conservative. Except, of course, when it does 😉
PS, sorry about all those double negatives, I did “fact check” them
January 16th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
For me, conservatism is recognizing that while my personal life experience is unique, my experiences are not. Because of that deference is due to the judgments of my predecessors on a variety of matters, especially those concerning the ordering of society. I choose to assume that those who came before me might have insights that still have relevance to our world..
As for what got me excited me about politics — nothing, really. In fact, I rather dislike it. However, I realize that I need to be in the arena because there are too many people who are (a) wrong-headed and (b) full of passion to change the world because they overvalue their own worldview and life experiences.
January 16th, 2012 at 9:18 pm
The purpose of a group like PIN is to provide a metric so that when the bias of their partners is questioned they can trot out a document that shows that conservative “voices” were aired 22% more often (or whatever) last year than the year before. That is why the questions are phrased the way they are. They want to decide what is and what is not an “authentic” conservative like they decide who is and who is not an “authentic” black person, latino, GLBTQ or whatever.
The problem is at the editorial level, where narratives are framed. It’s not a matter of adding “conservative voices”. It ain’t an affirmative action issue, where Jesse Jackson squawks and is appeased by hiring a few black reporters.
FYI, the activist left is already preparing the battlefield by claiming that NPR & PBS are currently “right-winged”. They will fight like demons against any reform that is designed to move public media to the center, and their voices are heard louder in the board rooms of places like the McKnight foundation than any conservative voice.
There is no way out of this trap other than taking the “public” out of public media.
January 17th, 2012 at 9:50 am
I’ve participated in some of PIN’s surveys. I’m of the opinion that I am going to viewed as a sideshow attraction. I have a lot of friends who consider themselves progressives and I know my evolution away from the standard progressive ideology has been hard for them to accept. Some still talk to me, some don’t. The way I see it, I never abandoned my search for truth and honesty. I wasn’t willing to continue to support a cause that writes off a majority of Americans as knuckle dragging Neanderthals. I learned that the intolerance of progressives is just as toxic as the intolerance I protested against in my college years. I have changed and modified my views over the years as a result of obeserving how the world works. My progressive friends are stuck in a time warp. They believe in exactly the same things they did at age 18. I want to know: how could they be so prescient at a young age? Isn’t learning supposed to occur in the adult mind? If the reality of life in the 2000s doesn’t fit with their unicorn world uptopian vision from the 60s, why do they insist on viewing me as the outlier? Most importantly, why doesn’t PIN and NPR ever question them about their value systems instead of assuming they are the the norm?
January 17th, 2012 at 9:52 am
Generally I’m more patient with MPR/NPR than most conservatives.
Does it have bias issues? Certainly, and on some programs it’s more obvious than others. On the Media? A Farce of a show. “Wait, Wait”? Funny, but it comes from a place of entitlement and smug condescension of anything to the right of Joe Lieberman. “Being on Krista Tippet”? A shadow of its former self. And “This American Life” is still Stuff White People Life: The Show.
And locally The Current does little to expand or promote music, it’s still KDWB for hipsters.
But still, MPR news never starts out a newscast talking on Madonna vs. Elton John or some other worthless crap. No missing white girl syndrome. No Nancy Grace or Rachel Maddow. Yes, they’re more cozy with the left than the right, but I’ll take this for now.
Yet I agree with the consensus: If they’d stop condescending to Conservatives as an exotic tribe with backwards traditions I’d be a lot happier.
January 17th, 2012 at 11:08 am
All,
For purposes of this discussion, let’s assume the following:
1) While APM effort to reach out to conservative voices might be a whiz in the river, let’s assume it’s both done out of good faith and that there could be some institutional commitment to it.
2) For purposes of this discussion, let’s allow that NPR (and APM / MPR programming) all tilt sharply to the left, but that there is, at least at an intellectual level, an effort to address that fact.
3) As a point of clarification, let’s remember that MPR news and APM programming – like Keillor, Peter Sagal, Ira Glass and so on – are at least organizationally different. We can debate whether that matters or not; I believe I have established via my own experience that there is at least an attempt to have that distinction count for something.
Otherwise it won’t be a very interesting discussion, will it?
January 17th, 2012 at 11:35 am
I would appreciate being able to opt out of the involuntary funding of this entity through my tax dollars. Let them attempt to survive in the free market.
January 17th, 2012 at 12:20 pm
A good faith effort to do what, exactly?
January 17th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
Hi, All. Three comments to start off:
1. I agree with Fresch Fisch about John Hinderaker on MPR’s Bright ideas show. He was great!
2. Other people have also felt that some (or all) of the questions that we’ve asked on surveys aimed at conservatives sound like we’re doing anthropology research. I apologize for any of the questions I wrote if they’re offensive to you in some way. We have and would and do ask similar questions to liberals (and people in other demographic groups that we’re seeking to learn from). But in this case, we’ve focused some surveys on conservatives (hence: What are your conservative values? *) because we’d like to recruit more conservative sources — for political reporting, and, more importantly, for other reporting we do at MPR and APM, and at our PIN partner media organizations.
* We also ask for your “conservative” values because we’re curious which values you consider conservative (if you don’t consider all your values conservative). I think the main point was that we were asking what it means to you to be conservative — because, for example, I believe myself very conservative on some things, and not so conservative on others.
3. The Public Insight Network is a national effort, and not just for MPR and APM, but adopted and employed at other media organizations, too. It’s not about public media. It’s about getting more people involved in the news process. You’re smart. You have knowledge that could make news reporting better. If you’ve ever heard or read a news story and thought (or yelled): “This isn’t right!” then you know why we journalists need to be talking with and hearing from more people who are living out the issues and living in the communities we cover. That’s why we’re doing this. We truly value your perspective (and I’m not just talking to conservatives here. I’m talking to everyone), and we need it.
I love online discussion, but if you have questions or suggestions that you’d prefer to talk with me about directly, please email or call: 651-290-1499; mng@americanpublicmedia.org.
Melody
January 17th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
Thanks for checking in, Melody.
My overall problem with your questions is that they seem to be designed to identify a specific conservative ideology when there is no such thing. Russell Kirk famously defined conservatism as the absence of an ideology.
Your question “What experiences shaped those values?” I find especially irksome. It implies that political viewpoint is a result of personal experience, and that is a liberal belief.
January 17th, 2012 at 3:16 pm
Terry,
“that is a liberal belief” – perhaps, but it isn’t a question without an answer to some conservatives. I grew up very liberal. There were some things that changed that for me.
Did my experiences give me “the absence of an ideology?” Per Kirk, perhaps – but there was at least the suggestion of causes leading to effects.
January 17th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
But Mitch, you are not a reliable narrator 🙂
The largest determinant of the political affiliation of a person is the political affiliation of the people who raised that person (I think there is about a 70% correlation, but it has been many years since I took poli-sci). But if you ask a hundred randomly selected individuals why they vote the way they do, almost none of them will say that they vote a certain way because their parents voted that way.
One person witnesses a fire fight between a drug dealer and the police and becomes a libertarian, another person sees the same thing and becomes a drug warrior.
Reagan said in one of his letters that he became a conservative as a result of his dealing with labor disputes when he was president of SAG. Another person in that situation might have become more left-winged.
“What experiences shaped those values?” may be an interesting conversation starter, but it is a question that only seems to be asked of conservatives.
January 18th, 2012 at 11:24 am
Identifying one general conservative view isn’t the intention, Terry. If anything, our intention — or maybe I should say our hypothesis, because we don’t know how people will answer our questions — was just the opposite. We expected different people have their own individual perspectives.
I’m very interested in who people (of all backgrounds and ideologies) are, and how they see the world and their place in it. So I might ask questions like the ones in our surveys to people I meet at my kids’ preschool, at church, or while grocery shopping. My goal would be simply to get a better understanding of that person.
In the case of these surveys, we for sure want to get to know individual people better — because we’re always interested in hearing and telling great stories, and because the more we know about someone, the better we are at sending them future surveys that they’d actually care and know about. But we also are looking for common themes, especially if they’re topics that haven’t yet been explored in the news. So, for example, many conservatives, you included, have told me that conservative views aren’t acquired through life experiences, that they’re innate.
I have no idea how we’d turn that insight into a news story, but it’s obviously an important distinction to people. (As an aside, and not to be argumentative, but just because I still don’t quite understand this viewpoint — apologies for my being dense — Do you believe that everyone is born conservative? So if people have no interaction with the rest of the world, they’d believe in small government and free markets? Can’t one’s experiences growing up in a conservative household provide some of the experiences that shape one’s thinking? And even if you are born conservative, couldn’t your political views still be shaped by things you do or see, or people you talk with or read? I ask liberals what shapes their views, too.
—-
Mr. D., and Ben — Thanks for your answers above.
January 18th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
Thanks for checking in again, Melody.
I don’t believe that conservatism or its lack is innate. For some people it may be, for others it may not be. But if you ask people “What experiences shaped your [whatever] beliefs?” they will always come up with a reason, and that reason will, from their point of view, be self-complimentary.
I disagree with Mitch. Biography is used by the Left much more than the Right in political arguments. Do a Google search on “Too many Catholics on the Supreme Court?” and you will find many stories on the topic, most of them from Left-of-center “legitimate” news sources. I can not recall a single comment by a conservative in any media outlet that Justice Ginsberg’s religion (or lack of religion) influenced her vote on a Supreme Court case.
January 31st, 2012 at 4:02 pm
I just sent this email to Melody Ng:
“In response to Power Line’s plug of the Public Insight Network I filled out your questionnaire some time ago. I have just now read that you spoke to my friend
Mitch Berg and reported that your efforts to engage conservatives has been going kinda slow.
I’ll bet it ain’t as slow as the wait I’ve had for an acknowledgement that you received my response to your questions.
And I’m sure it hasn’t been as slow as my wait for Public Radio to prove itself as something other as a left wing echo chamber.
I’ll stop waiting by the phone….”
February 1st, 2012 at 11:31 am
Hi, Duke. Thank you for filling out our survey and telling me about what “cured” you of your Democrat upbringing. Also appreciate your sending me many specific examples of media bias. I just wrote you back a personal email, but opened Mitch’s blog to find your message here, too, so thought I should respond in case any other Power Line readers are also wondering why they didn’t hear back from us.
Every person who writes to us matters. We read every response, and we try to let people know what we’re doing with what they tell us. I sent everyone who filled out our survey on Power Line a thank you note on Dec 20 — 313 people in all (Hooray for everyone who was willing to give us a chance!). But — I just looked at the stats this morning — it looks like no one opened their thank you note. I’m really sorry if you and others felt that we didn’t care or were so rude that we didn’t write you back.
Here’s the update: A three person reporting team from APM: Jeff Severns Guntzel, Jeff Jones and Neal Karlen have been interviewing people who responded to the Power Line survey and some others, such as the SotU survey Mitch posted here last week. They’ve been talking with people of different political ideologies and backgrounds who said that today’s America is not the America they want. You can find some of those interviews here.
Local newsrooms around the country are also contacting people who told us they’re conservative to ask about whether they’re participating in GOP caucuses or primaries, and to learn more about why they support their candidate. MPR will be emailing Minnesotans in PIN in the next couple days.
Melody
February 8th, 2012 at 5:01 am
[…] context, of course, was a conversation I had with Melody Ng, who works for the “Public Insight Network” at American Public Media, the […]