Former secretary-general of NATO Anders Rasmussen notes the grievous mistakes NATO made in the late 2000s on his watch w/r/t Putin and Russia.
When I took office in 2009, I reached out to the Russians and told them it’s one of my priorities to develop such a strategic partnership, despite the fact that one year earlier they had attacked Georgia. So we have done a lot. But maybe Putin misread our thoughts and I think [that a] lesson learned from history is that appeasement with dictators does not lead to peace, it leads to war and conflict.
I mean, when it comes to learning lessons, better late than never.
And it’d seem some traditionally neutral countries are learning from others mistakes:
NATO is prepared to welcome both Finland and Sweden. I would say an application from Finland and Sweden could be approved more or less overnight. And let me add to this: I think it would be in the self-interest of Finland and Sweden to join NATO right now. Because now they have a window of opportunity. Putin is engaged [somewhere else], so that window might soon close again.
So it’s right now that Finland and Sweden should use the opportunity to join NATO. And that would send an extremely important signal to Putin, and
And it appears that, after three decades of lukewarm pragmatism that followed four decades of treaty-mandates neutrality, public opinion in Finland is turning toward joining as well (you’re on you own for the translation).
Putin’s belligerence towards its neighbors fits a historical pattern and the mistake was not NATO’s expansion but, its failure to take in Ukraine.
Those who blame the war in Ukraine on NATO remind of nothing more than the wife who, after being viciously beaten by her deranged and drunken husband claims “It was my fault. I made too much noise emptying the dishwasher.”
This is Putin’s war, and no one else’s.
But I do fear we need to wean ourselves off China as well, now. Not with state sanctions. But with consumer choice.
They’d be idiots to hitch their reindeer to NATO’s circus wagon.
I was listening to NPR this morning, to get the day’s propaganda. They were OUTRAGED that Putin has pulled the plug on Western media. I tried to check with RT to see what the Russians had to say about it, but big tech has pulled their plug.
Has Russia ever frozen the bank accounts of citizens? Have they confiscated the proceeds of fund raising platforms? Are they still dragging people off incommunicado, or is that just Cuba and Washington DCPD?
NPR was relating the desperate situation in Mariupol, but never mentioned the Asov Battalion that is Ukraine’s defensive force in place there…
Thinking on it, the only difference between Russian’s state run media and our’s is, we have to listen to dimwitted wammen opining on subjects which they know fuckall about.
I’m all in favor of Europe banding together to defend itself from Russia.
So we don’t have to.
America should withdraw from NATO. 75 years of imperialist domination is enough. It’s time for the little birds to fly on their own. Fly, little birdies! Fly!
But we won’t leave them stranded. We’ll leave billions of dollars worth of infrastructure and equipment behind, same as we left the Taliban. It’s only fair.
Touching on the decision by several Western powers to freeze Russia’s central bank assets, Putin claimed that this would only serve to irreparably undermine trust in those nations, and make other countries think twice before placing their reserves in the care of those countries. According to him, nearly half of Moscow’s assets were “simply stolen” by the West.
Putin is making an important point. Canada proved that it’s banking system was risky, after seizing assets and freezing accounts of it’s citizens, and of online fundraising sources. The same will be true of the theft of Russian assets.
We arrogantly proclaim Russia a pariah, and yes, much of the West has fallen in line. That by no means puts Russia out of the game; they’ll simply move their commerce to safer venues, like China, Turkey, UAE, Iran, Venezuela. Saudi Arabia is in talks with China to accept Yuan for oil purchases…that is as big a hit to the US as the sanctions are to Russia.
In addition to oil and gas, Russia is a major supplier of grain. Their customers include most of the starving, third world shitholes…but no one gives a shit about them.
Finland and Sweden should join NATO ASAP. This counters Putin’s ridiculous ambitions to restore the Russian and Soviet Empires of the past.
Frankly, Austria, Ireland and Switzerland should also get off the fence. Neutrality in practice means not contributing to keeping the bear in his cage and allowing him to maul one’s neighbors. Putin has done more to strengthen NATO and unify the West than any other leader on the planet post-cold war an extraordinary legacy for one man.
Russia, which is being subjected to sanctions by countries from the U.S. to Japan, is trying to halt exports of fertilizer by its producers and the war has largely closed trade out of the Black Sea region, used by other producers.
Zimbabwe imports about a quarter of a million tonnes of nitrate fertilizer from Russia annually. While there is enough in stock to allow the growing of wheat this winter, there is likely to be little left for maize, the country’s staple food, when summer planting starts. If sourced from elsewhere, fertilizer prices are likely to surge.
“Zimbabwe’s exposure to the Russia and Ukraine conflict is that of nitrate,” said Graeme Barr, managing director of Nutrimaster, the Innscor unit that imports fertilizer into Zimbabwe. “There is no plan B. Prices for nitrate are going to soar.”
Tuff luck. We’re making the world safe for chemical castration of children!!
Swiftee wrote: /Touching on the decision by several Western powers to freeze Russia’s central bank assets, Putin claimed that this would only serve to irreparably undermine trust in those nations, and make other countries think twice before placing their reserves in the care of those countries. According to him, nearly half of Moscow’s assets were “simply stolen” by the West./ … “Putin is making an important point.”
First, there are no sanctions, only special economic operations.
Second, if you don’t want to be affected, don’t help Russian occupants.
Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Wednesday the country has no plans to nationalize foreign assets in response to seizures of Russian property abroad.
“Unlike Western countries, we will respect property rights,” he added.
The arrests of the nation’s foreign assets, and those of Russian businesses, is a lesson for the country’s entrepreneurs, according to Putin.
“There is nothing more reliable than investments at home,” the president said.
Ouch
LMAO…
Ukrainian Institute of National Remembrance
@Uinp_gov_ua
·
Mar 14
9 arguments why Ukrainians an russians are not fraternal nations (look thread total)👇👇👇
“Argument #9: Ukrainians and russians have different origin”
“Ukrainians originate from Slavic tribes. The Russian state was formed in large part through mixing…”
(Translation: Ukrainians are a pure Slavic race, unlike the Russian mongrels….)
https://web.archive.org/web/20220315202518/https://twitter.com/Uinp_gov_ua/status/1503439897025204224
Heil Zalinsky!
COME TO THE EU: BE SAFE!
Germany: Nigerian, Iraqi Migrants Accused of Raping Teen Girl Who Fled Ukraine
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/03/16/ukrainian-teen-allegedly-raped-by-nigerian-and-iraqi-migrants-in-german-accommodation/
So, NATO is to become an explicitly anti-Russian coalition?
Back in the early 90s, before Putin, there was talk of Russia becoming a NATO member. It would never have mappened, but my, how times have changed.
How reliable would Sweden and Finland be as NATO members? I could see them working to moderate NATO’s response to Russian aggression out of self interest.
You can tell the White House is being run by people who grew up playing video games and writing term papers instead of pulling sentry duty or shoveling manure. Everything in life is a computer, to them.
Doakes’ on-line comment offends you? Ban him.
Doakes supports Canadian truckers? Freeze his bank accounts.
Doakes questions the media narrative on Ukraine? Add him to the No Fly List, revoke his passport, suspend his driver’s license. Just press the botton, it’s done.
And if Doakes acts up at a school board meeting or courthouse, send cops to his house to shoot him without knocking and inform the media he was a domestic terrorist so he had it coming – they’ll gladly play along.
Every problem can be solved with a keystroke and a press release.
Until it can’t. Putin isn’t a peon like Doakes. Putin has options. Close his bank account and he opens another elsewhere. Devalue his currency and he makes his loan payment in the now-worthless currency. Refuse to sell him sneakers and he refuses to sell you gasoline or heating oil. And if push comes to shove, Putin has just as many shooters as we do, just as many warplanes, just as many nuclear weapons.
Lesko Brandon’s puppet masters are only now figuring out there is no ‘cheat code’ to win the video game “War in Ukraine.” They have no idea what to do next.
The EU has a population and a GDP similar to that of the US. They even have their own nukes.
Let Europe take care of Europe. The NATO treaty is a joke, Americans are not going to send their sons and daughters to fight in Finland or Estonia.
Wow, bizarre. Moderation. But I didn’t mention the S-type of government, didn’t mention the Canine Who Left, didn’t even use any swear words.
Could it be the word “peon” that triggered it? Or perhaps “manure” used in proper context, not as a curse?
Weird.
Of course not, MP. They’re going to send YOUR grandchildren to fight and die for Estonia.
Has Russia ever frozen the bank accounts of citizens? Have they confiscated the proceeds of fund raising platforms? Are they still dragging people off incommunicado, or is that just Cuba and Washington DCPD?
Um, swiftee, maybe….read some friggin’ Solzhenitsyn? Or for that matter, the papers from the past ten years detailing poisonings and the like by Comrade Putin? Honestly.
They won’t be dying in Estonia. Estonia will just open the city gates to whomever is knocking, just like they have done for a 1000 years. You guys really like to troll me on this, don’t you? Glad I can be of service and offer you some amusement.
To the question of whether Finland or others ought to join NATO, my thought is that it’s getting too darned big to be any use. Really, Putin–I mean “Samsonov”–has figured out that as long as Russia has nukes, NATO can’t act without risking nuclear war. So what we’ve got to do is act according to our own Constitution and encourage Ukraine, Finland, and others to do the Swiss solution; every male a member of the militia with an assault rifle in his home, each region has its own supply of anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons, etc..
If anyone had the measure of Russia it is the Finns. It would be wise to assume Russia will continue for some time to be ruled by adventurists.
Their calculus is only “what can I get away with, how do I protect/get ‘mine’?” Nothing at all to do with real politik or genuine national interest, though quite happy to play that game — and, every now and then, crazy nuke owner — if it gives cover for their own ends.
The problem with attempting to follow conventional standards of moderation, finding the balance of interests and so on, with a sovereign power in the control of a corrupt elite, is the Cheshire Cat nature of the foreign policy goals – they are merely means to and end, not the end itself.
Democratic leaders must always be able to counter a despotic leader’s behavior in a manner they can readily calculate, appalling though the potential costs may appear when a despot resorts to extreme threats.
While joining NATO offers a conventional chess move against a conventional threat, would it be more productive to develop an ‘anti despot’ calculus — since the despot sees nuclear war fear as a form of leverage they can manipulate?
so bike, it is OK to confiscate private property without due process, by any government that gets the itch? I know you did not say it, but you certainly implied it.
All these sunkhions and actions are hurting one people only – regular russians. NOT Putin. So it is OK for the world to impoverish, starve, kill, destroy, demoralize and demonize a nation of 140,000,000 people for the actions of one madman? Way to make friends. Way to use Diplomacy™. How is THIS different from Stalin’s Holodomor? The world had gone fucking mad if they do not see it!
Sweden and Finland in NATO? Really? So, they join and get NATO protection™, but what does NATO get out of the deal? Lutefisk? Saab?
You should listen to today’s Commentary podcast. They are pushing for nuclear war over Ukraine.
Sweden and Finland in NATO? Really? So, they join and get NATO protection™, but what does NATO get out of the deal? Lutefisk? Saab?
Supermodels?
JPA, it’s a case of war. As far as I can tell, we have a choice between allowing Russia to have its way with Ukraine (risking another real Holodomor with them), discreetly arming Ukraine, or doing a lot more and risking a nuclear exchange and the deaths of billions.
I don’t like Biden, and I don’t like Putin at all (Putin delenda est!), but I think we’re at least close to the least murderous option. I am also praying that someone in Moscow close to Samsonov decides enough is enough and takes him and some of his minions out. I don’t care whether it’s polonium, a bullet to the head, an infected hangnail, or being jailed for unpaid parking tickets, but after the series of atrocities on his watch, it’s long past time for him to go.
Woolly also says that Ukrainians “speak Russian,” implying there is no Ukrainian language. 😂 It’s a very competitive field, but Woolly is a contender for the biggest fraud of SiTD.
So it is OK for the world to impoverish, starve, kill, destroy, demoralize and demonize a nation of 140,000,000 people for the actions of one madman?
I would certainly agree that Putin is ruthless, but madman? I don’t think so; not by a long shot.
I’ve been saying since day 1, none of us knows what’s going on over there, or why. Everything we hear from our corrupt media is every bit as much lies and bullshit as anything Pravda publishes. Remember “we don’t have any bio-warfare labs in Ukraine!!!” https://www.thesun.ie/news/8495326/russia-virus-stolen-from-ukrainian-lab-bioweapon/
We do not know what the motivations are; we don’t know what the goal is, although there’s little doubt that Pedo Joe’s Afghan debacle suggested to Putin now is the time to do whatever it is he is doing, and Zelinsky’s application to NATO surely plays a role. There is no more chance Putin is going to allow a NATO base 300 miles from Moscow, than we were going to allow Russian nukes on Cuba.
Putin says he’s “de-Nazifying” Ukraine. MSNBC laughs, until schwoops! Azov Brigade….
Zelinsky can end this tomorrow. It’s a lost cause; cut his losses and take the L. He will lose perhaps 1/3 of Eastern Ukraine to ensure Russia has a buffer, and most of his Black Sea ports. Putin is not gonna give up until he gets whatever it is he wants, and if the nitwits get their way, and NATO imposes a “no fly zone”, we will be in a hot war with Russia.
Ukraine is not “free”, it’s not really a Democracy. It’s every bit the corrupt oligarchy Russia is. Do I want to die to protect Zelinsky’s freedom to dance in spandex and spike heels? Not no; fuck no.
And, I would be remiss not to remind you, Bubba, that Zelinsky was put in power after a US backed coup. Did Obama personally kill any Ukrainians? Nope; he had “people” for that…just like Putin does.
than we were going to allow Russian nukes on Cuba.
Do you REALLY think Jughead would not provide safe passage for Putin’s nuclear convoy to Cuba if Putin chose to do so? With Penn and Moore helping to moor the ship and help unload the nukes?
“were” being the operative word, jpa. We used to have competent adults in charge. Now it’s dotards, reprobates trannies and faggots all the way down.
As far as I can tell, we have a choice between allowing Russia to have its way with Ukraine (risking another real Holodomor with them), discreetly arming Ukraine, or…
There is no “discrete” option. And your JPA, it’s a case of war comment tells me you absolutely OK with willful genocide of 140,000,000 people because you claim to have moral superiority. In your view, …it’s a case of war it is OK for West to commit Holodomor, but it can only be real Holodomor if Russia does it. For you, starving ordinary russians is collateral damage… Nice… I don’t have a solution, but unlike you, I stand against inhumanity on ANY side. I do not claim moral high ground because nobody can, and especially not in this conflict. Fuck, I’ll say it again, where was the outrage when Ukraine bombed Donbass and Luhansk civilians for 8 fucking years? And no, I am NOT defending Putin nor condone his action in Ukraine, but I also do not condone genocide.
tags ran amok, sorry.
Swiftee, the removal of a corrupt murderer was in 2014. Yes, we helped, and I’m glad we did. Zelenskyy was first elected in 2019. Time will tell whether he’s a hero or “more of the same”, but your Putinesque rantings have a serious disconnect with reality. Same thing with the “Azov Brigade”. So the alleged sympathies of 900 soldiers makes the entire nation “Nazi”-ish? When the President of that country is Jewish? Seriously?
And yes, Swiftee, when someone takes part in a genocide in Syria that claims half a million souls after pretty much leveling the capital of one of his provinces, and then proceeds to invade a neighboring country on premises that can only politely be called b*lls**t, risking the lives of millions of its inhabitants and sacrificing many thousands of his own people, I think it’s safe to call him a madman. Putin Delenda Est!
alleged? ALLEGED?
https://www.usasupreme.com/zelensky-addresses-the-congress-and-internet-sleuths-claim-he-was-wearing-hitlers-cross-here-are-the-details-photos-video/
scroll down half a page. Do you know what Azov symbol is? DO YOU?
ALLEGED!
JPA, you’re usually more thoughtful than this. To my knowledge, nobody is dying because of the world’s sanctions on Russia, and all Putin needs to do to end them is to withdraw from Ukraine, apologize for his unlawful invasion, and resign. Bonus points if he and his minions find a new home on a little island in San Francisco Bay or the like. To compare it with the Holodomor or the Holocaust is just plain silly.
And yes, JPA, alleged. Notice that the “Wolfsangel” is included in about a dozen city/state coats of arms in Europe to this day, most of them in Germany. If the symbol were totally linked to the Nazi regime, I’m sure Bonn/Berlin would have put the kibosh on that over half a century ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfsangel
Honestly…you guys have got to get your heads out of the conspiracy network.
bike, that was the insignia worn by the Ukranian Nazi collaborators during WWII. The collaborators that rounded up Russians, Jews, Poles, Gypsies into cattle cars on their way to concentration camps among other atrocities. It may mean something different in Germany, but in Ukraine it only means one thing and one thing only. So no, this ain’t no conspiracy and there is nothing alleged about the flag on the right in the picture. Or did you miss it somehow?
So ordinary russian people who are being deliberately cut off from the world with only intent to make their lives miserable, insufferable and degraded is not morally objectionable to you? And if this conflict drags on and people start dying, will it be OK then to call if Holodomor?
all Putin needs to do to end them is to withdraw from Ukraine, apologize for his unlawful invasion, and resign
Wow, just wow. Not even gonna start on this. You should change your name to Pollyanna.
Well, Zelinsky’s rambling speech got Pedo Joe to send Ukraine a shit ton of armaments, even if he had trouble relaying it. Look for ammo supplies to tighten up, because 200,000 rounds are going over there. This is ludicrous. We can’t continue to be the world’s police force, especially when our own police can’t get support for the out of control crime. Further, I’ve already been involved in one Democrat instigated folly and I’m not willing to send my son or daughter to defend some other country just because they laundered millions of dollars for the corrupt son of a feckless president. Very few of the elected scum that are pushing for WW III or their kids, ever served in combat, so they have no right to send ours to do it.
In the country where I live, which is neither Ukraine nor Russia, the information I receive on my computer screen is controlled by multi-national megacorporations. The rules that they use to determine what information I may access are deliberately obscured to keep users from “gaming the system.” There is no appeal process. These multinational, loyal to no one corporations even banned the speech of a sitting US president.
Simply speaking the truth, that a man cannot become a biological woman by stating that he is a biological woman, can get you fired and legally prevented from voicing your beliefs.
If you join the US military today, this is the system that you are pledging to uphold with your life, if necessary.
Go get ’em, tiger!
One may have assumed that the Russian troll’s pro- Russian posts would be crass, vitriolic, vodka-fueled attacks featuring broken English, and spreading fake news
That’s what makes some of the posts indistinguishable from the accidentally hilarious MAGA posts he makes.
Is it Dimitry drunk on potato vodka, or Swiftee sitting in his basement bunker wearing a MAGA hat?
Difficult to say.
I doubt that partisanship will significantly dip, but Russia’s invasion delivered a blow to both parties’ stupidity. It has revealed many contradictions.
The Left awoke (see what I did there) in a world that proved America isn’t the driver of evil. Companies criticizing and threatening boycotts of Georgia for “voter suppression” looks ridiculous compared to firms continuing to operate in Russia and increasingly China. Maybe the biggest threat to liberal Western values isn’t what pronouns we use or the person who doesn’t wear a mask on your flight.
The Right was reminded that praising or imitating strongmen is wrong and dangerous. Autocracy is bad. It’s immoral. It’s ineffective. Although you have Tucker and some continuing to do Putin’s heavy lifting, it is hard to convince normal Americans that Democrats are more evil than Putin. Millions of Ukrainian refugees can attest.
Perspective drives a stake right through partisan hyperbole. Let’s hope the war ends but the perspective stays. A least for a little while.
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