I get it.

If you’re a businessperson, a law-abiding citizen, a resident of a place like Minneapolis or Saint Paul or Kenosha, you might be getting a little tired of being siultaneousy treated like a villain, a sucker and a pop-sociology punching bag.

And seeing the entitled, upper-middle-cass, over-schooled, undereducated “progressive” thugs and the depredations they wreak, you might just be as mad as hell and not in a mood to take it anymore.

You might even take the Second Amendment of the Constitution seirously, with its implied empowerment to defend your life, your family, your property, your community and your freedom.

And truth be told, I feel it too. The Thursday night after Memorial Day, when the destruction came to Saint Paul, the temptation to strap up and sit out on the porch with a book and a couple of poieces of ugly black insurance would have been pretty dang tempting if all of my guns hadn’t fallen into Mille Lacs, and they didn’t terrify me besides.

It’s even ore overwhelming when you have a government that seems, at least in Minnneapolis, Saint Paul and Minnesota at large, to be on the wrong side.

It’s times like this the urge to get some friends and gun up and find some bit of real estate to protect from the mob – your own, someone else’s, it matters little – is palpable.

It’s a lousy idea for two reasons.

For starters – in most states, the odds are good that you’ll come off worse, legally, than the scumbags.

And the scumbags want a civil war.

Let’s look at both problems.

Self-Defense – As we’ve noted in this space before, the rules for claiming self-defense are (intentionally?) a little opaque in many states, including MInnesota and Wisconsin.

To sum up the confluence of a little statute and a lot of case law:

  1. You must reasonably, immediately fear death or great bodily harm.  Reasonable means “it’ll convince a jury”.  Immediate means now; if someone says “I’m gonna kill you…tomorrow”, you can’t kill them first.
  2. You must use appropriate force.  In other words, you can only use the force needed to end the threat.  No more.
  3. You must make a reasonable effort to retreat.  Reasonable.  If you’re pushing your baby in a stroller, you don’t need to leave it behind.  If you’re a 70 year old man with a knee replacement attacked by four youths, you don’t need to try to out run them.  And in Minnesota, it doesn’t apply in your house.  In “Stand Your Ground” states, this provision is disregarded.  Minnesota is not a Stand Your Ground state.
  4. You must not be a willing participant: you can’t start a brawl, and then shoot someone who breaks a bottle.Put another way, you must not be the aggressor.

Berg’s 18th Law is in full effect, here – but given what we might know about the crime, it would seem that Rittenhouse may have the same problem as Alan Scarsella, the man who shot at some “protesters” who were chasing him and his friends away from the Fourth Precinct in North MInneapolis a few years ago. Scarsella likely met three of the criteria for self defense – but the prosecution painted him, successfully, as the aggressor . He didn’t have to go to North Minneapolis, and he certainly didn’t have to post a stupid video bragging about it.

We’ll see what happens.

Say You Want A Revolution – In 1933 as German president Paul Hindenburg mulled giving emergency power to a cabinet led by Adolph Hiter, among the biggest supporters of the power giveaway were…

…the German Communist Party. The Nazi’s “enemies”. They figured extremism woulds benefit them – when the middle becomes untenable, the extremes become self-preservation. It’d worked for the Communists in Russia, and showed promise in other European countries; the Hard Left’s discipline and organization enabled it to win a batte of the extremes over right wings that weren’t anywhere near organized enough to prevail against Big Left’s discipline and regimentation.

They banked wrong on the batatle against Hiter – but got the formula down in North Korea, China, and a fair chunk of the Third World in the fifties through the seventies, and evena few since.

They are banking on the same thing today. Not without good reason.

44 thoughts on “Rittenhouse

  1. Got this text message on my cell phone at 6:20 last night:

    “CURFEW IN EFFECT tonight 8/27 from 8 p.m. to 6 p.m. 8/28. Stay home, stay safe.” Clicking on the message for more details reveals: “From: Emergency Alerts; Severity: Extreme; Urgency: Immediate; Response: Take Shelter; Certainty: Observed.”

    When my own local government is telling me violence is imminent and they can do nothing about it, but I’m forbidden to leave my home to flee the city, what’s the prudent, rational thing for a homeowner to do? Arm up?

    “No, it’s just property, it’s not worth defending,” is a lie. This house was bought with money I earned by my labor. It represents stored value, same as a dollar bill. Stealing the value by damaging my house steals my stored value no less than robbing my bank. Yes, there is insurance, probably, eventually. But my prudence in purchasing insurance doesn’t justify your riot, any more than FDIC insurance justifies bank robbing. And that’s assuming the rioters only damage my house, they don’t end up killing me in the process.

    St. Paul is admitting it can’t – or won’t – protect me. I’m on my own. If I had an ugly black rifle and bullets for it, I’d have had it loaded and sitting by the bed last night. I wonder if there are any left in the gun stores?

  2. I’m over my head when it comes to legal interpretation, so I’ll ask the group: isn’t charging Rittenhouse with Murder One a big overreach?

  3. golfdoc50, I agree with you, Murder One seems an overreach. Is this the result of “electing” a DA who doesn’t know anything but politics? There’s got to be one or two experienced attorneys in that office who could give advice… or maybe there’s something else going on.

  4. I’m not a criminal defense lawyer. I think Mitch’s explanation is correct. What he didn’t mention in this column (but has, in other posts), is that self-defense is a defense. That only happens when charges have been brought; it’s not a shield to prevent charges from being brought. You plead self-defense in court, at trial, after you’ve been arrested and pledged your house as security for the bail bond and spent your life savings to retain an attorney.

    The risk at trial is that in order to plead self-defense, the Defendant must convince the judge to allow him to assert that defense. In Minnesota, the judge doesn’t have to allow it. Even if the judge does allow it, that means the Defendant basically must say, “Yes, I killed him, but’s okay – I acted in self-defense.” If the jury doesn’t believe it, you’ve effectively plead guilty.

    Although I am an attorney, I’m not YOUR attorney, and I’m not giving you legal advice. Before you act, I recommend you obtain expert legal advice from a competent attorney practicing in the field.

  5. They are banking on the same thing today

    Paraphrasing your comment above, they will be banking wrong again because of the 2nd Amendment.

  6. To JD’s point, as I have mentioned before, if you are a conceal carry permit holder, a membership in the USCCA (United States Conceal Carry Association) would be a worthwhile investment. I have been a member since I got my CC, even though I don’t own any guns. Full disclosure: I DO NOT gain any financial benefit from this organization. I only pass it on, because I know two people that benefited greatly from having the insurance that the Association provides with membership. This meant that they didn’t have to put their houses and other valuables up as collateral and have their lives ruined defending their legal actions.

  7. As Joel R. told us (and I may be paraphrasing), “You shoot only when you’re down to only two choices: losing your life, or ruining your life.”

    I’m curious about the “defense of another” wording. People on balconies in downtown Minneapolis Wednesday night cheered as the police arrived (finally) at Brit’s pub, which was burning. Say someone was being beaten on the sidewalk (say, with a skateboard) in front of Brit’s, or being threatened with a handgun. And say that one of those balcony people had a rifle and shot the guy delivering the beat-down. Certainly the beating victim is at risk of serious injury or death, is the good-guy sniper justified?

    Similarly, say some Call of Duty veteran from the First Basement Battalion decides to take his AR-15 out on the streets to provide “security” for the protesters, and he starts taking shots at a car that drives into the protest. It’s a “defense of other” situation, but what are the legal requirements and ramifications? (That situation actually happened at a protest/riot in Texas, when the “defender” fired into a car that had driven into the crowd. We won’t get to see how that plays out legally for him, because the guy in the car pulled out his own gun and shot the kid dead. I haven’t seen any follow up on the guy in the car; presumably he was arrested and will be claiming self-defense. (It will be an interesting case should it come to trial; even if the protest defender hadn’t been killed, how could you know that the driver had intent to do harm, and didn’t just happen to make a wrong turn? (As for the driver, bullet holes in his car would seem to justify self-defense as long as he could prove he wasn’t intentionally trying to run people over.) Is the appearance of a threat enough to justify shooting? Same for a hypothetical balcony shooter in my first example: did he know that the guy doing the beating, or the one pointing the gun, truly intended to cause great bodily harm or death? Does it make a difference?

  8. I see STiD is turning the 17 year old psychopath into a martyr. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a GoFundMe page up already….

    Personally I would go straight for the prison rape jokes about it.

  9. Joel also told us winning a gun-fight was the Second-Worst outcome, the battle wasn’t over.

    Words to remember.

  10. I wish I hadn’t spent all those years in law school. I could be Emery and just tell everybody the law.

    I’m glad I never spent any time in medical school. I could be Emery and diagnose people as psychopaths, based on the news.

    It’s too bad I’m not a computer expert. I could hack into Emery’s computer so every time he tries to post on SiTD, his computer would send an mail to the White House, “DIE ORANGE MAN!” Maybe then, he’d get the help he needs.

  11. Hopefully shooting protesters doesn’t get as normalised in the films/TV as prison assault is.

  12. Nobody shoots protesters, not since Kent State.

    We shoot looters.

    Say, what are you doing later this evening?

  13. Let me see if I get this correctly. What good is the 2nd amendment if you cannot exercise it? ESPECIALLY when the goobernment REFUSES to protect your life and property as they MUST according to the constitution and the mere FACT you are PAYING them (in taxes) to do so! Rule of law! FUCK EAH!

  14. If Rittenhouse was a psychopath, I dare suggest he’d have chosen a slightly better tactical position than “in the middle of the street being chased and beaten by Antifa thugs.” Sorry, Emery, but that’s one of your dumbest comments yet, and that’s not for lack of stupidity you’ve demonstrated before.

  15. When Trump glorifies one, we inevitably get the other. If you don’t see how uplifting the
    McCloskeys emboldens people like Kyle Rittenhouse then you’re not paying attention.

    There will be more Kyle Rittenhouses. That’s what people who support him clearly want. It’s what the kind of people who admire them want.

  16. When Trump glorifies one, we inevitably get the other. If you don’t see how uplifting the
    McCloskeys emboldens people like Kyle Rittenhouse then you’re not paying attention.

    I see Emery’s gotten his talking points for today.

    Sure we are, Emery, we’re just not as committed to a narrative as you are. Most of us prefer for the facts to emerge. Typically, when we wait for facts to emerge, when we allow cooler heads to prevail, we learn there’s always more to the story. It’s not a big surprise that the news media, with one of its main incentives to attract more eyeballs, rarely gets the story right in the first 48 hours, if ever. You’ve heard the adage, “It it bleeds, it leads?” (With the COVID-19 craziness, I’d add the “It it scares, it airs”) It’s a pattern that repeats itself: Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown are both held up as martyrs and the impetus behind the formation of BLM. Only problem is it is not facts the drove the formation of the organization, but the narrative. So, how about we wait for hard facts to emerge about Rittenhouse, rather then the self-serving accusations of protesters/rioters whom, even if they are truthful, are only in possession of part of the facts?

  17. Yea, Emery. Just like the hero of the left wing media, James T. Hodgkinson. Thankfully, Capitol security officers David Bailey and Crystal Griner, dispatched him before he could finish checking off his list or Jared Lee Loughner, Adam Lanza or Micah Xavier Johnson. Sorry, crap for brains, but as usual, you’re pissing in the wind on this one, too. Enjoy your shower.

  18. Emery, you are so far out of touch with reality, it’s actually worrisome. Look around the basement, where are your meds? Where did you leave them? I know they make you feel weird, but you NEED to take them regularly.

    What you posted is exactly backwards. The Right has not been inciting violence, the Right been extraordinarily patient as the Left engaged in actual violence by attacking truckers on freeways, terrorized families in their homes, looting shops and stores, and burning down a police station.

    McClosky’s responded to a mob threatening to burn down their house with them in it, not by shooting people, but by standing on their doorstep. That’s restraint.

    Rittenhouse is one guy in a nation of 330,000,000 people. I don’t have the full story and neither do you. It may turn out he is a psycho, or a hero, or just a stupid seventeen year old kid with delusions of grandeur.

    Kind of like you. Delusional.

  19. A group of prominent attorneys have stepped up to defend the Hero of Kenosha against the ridiculous charges.

    They’ve set up a fund for his defense and any ancillaries he needs. I sent him a sawbuck today, probably send him another next week.


    Forget the fact that the two sacks of shit he ended outright were a convicted pedophile who did 12 years for raping a 12 yr old girl and a convicted wife beater, respectively. Forget the sack of shit he blew the arm off of was convicted of burglary, and assault, and was threatening the kid with a pistol he was not legally able to possess.

    Forget all that shit. The video shows the pedo chasing the kid, and at least 2 others firing weapons at or near him. After he stopped the pedo with a well placed, and richly deserved head shot, he was attacked by another mob of leftist scumbags, and took 2 more out.

    That kid has more guts than 1000 keyboard conservatives typing in unison. I’m so proud to see lawyers with enough guts to step up and defend him without excuse or apology.

    If scumbags like Emery and his pedophile buddies don’t like receiving the justice they deserve, they can stay the fuck off our streets and crawl back into the rat holes they came from.

  20. Alas, Rittenhouse will not escape felony charges. But he will be one rich ex-felon when Lin Wood is done fleecing – rightfully – all the MSM outlets. Reprobates never learn but eventually they will run out of money. And if rules for Scroogle/Anusbook/Twitster are finally are finally changed so they can be sued for content, like the MSM, they will be brought to their knees as well.

  21. Spent some time today watching Donut Operator on YouTube break down the shooting. I’d recommend it. Rittenhouse should not have been there in arms but he did a man’s job. Chased by thug #1, someone to his left shot at him. Thug #1 had thrown an object in a sack. The kid turned and put down his assailant. He then called 911 on his cell phone to report the situation. Thug #2 with skateboard pursued him, nearly taking his weapon before Rittenhouse put a bullet through his heart. Thug #3 with an illegal handgun then attacked and Rittenhouse blew out the biceps of his shooting arm. He then calmly walked up to arriving police, who were clueless at that point, and surrendered. Lefties who interpret that as “white privilege” ignore the behavior of 99% of black perps who resist until they are shot dead. The kid deserves a medal. Kenosha calmed down after a boy with balls showed how to deal with rioting thugs.

  22. “Look at all this chaos and disorder under my watch! Isn’t it awful? Only I can fix it. Vote for me!” ~ Donald Trump

  23. Look at all this chaos in dhimmi mayor cities in dhimmi governor states while the dhimmi party leaders and media cheer it on! It must be my fault!

    Yea, lets elect more dhimmis!

  24. “As you can see, I’m helpless to stop this violence, but If you re-elect me I’ll stop this violence!” ~ Donald Trump

    More people died yesterday from Covid than attended Trump’s rally in New Hampshire.

  25. ^^ I’m a pretty open minded Independent, and I support all constitutional amendments equally (2nd as much as the 1st in this case). However, this kid traveled to a different state where he was not a resident to “counter-protest”. He broke the law and needs to be held to account, law enforcement didn’t maintain order so they need to be held to account. We can’t have law enforcement condoned vigilantes roaming the streets looking to enforce their idea of what justice is.

  26. The kid traveled to Kenosha to do his job that day. You know like how Wisconsin residents commute every day into the Twin Cities to work? He stayed in town after finishing work.

  27. ^^ Did his “job” require a long rifle to accomplish his employer’s work requirements?

  28. No, his job was a lifeguard at the pool. So blow you crossed state lines to cause mayhem talking point out your arse.

  29. I know this is SOOOOO OT, but SOOOOOO priceless I cannot resist!

    SHOCK REPORT: This Week CDC Quietly Updated COVID-19 Numbers – Only 9,210 Americans Died From COVID-19 Alone – Rest Had Different Other Serious Illnesses.

  30. I see that Emery is flailing again.
    Stage one: Rittenhouse was not acting in self-defense.
    Stage two: Rittenhouse is a Bad Person and should not have provoked the peaceful protesters
    Stage three: Orange man bad!

  31. I think that defending the life of another is a valid legal defense if the “other” is engaged in criminal activity.

  32. Loren wrote: “No, his job was a lifeguard at the pool. So blow you crossed state lines to cause mayhem talking point out your arse.”

    You conveniently ignore the fact that Kyle Rittenhouse crossed state lines with an assault rife and violated Wisconsin state law by openly carry an assault rifle as a minor. He should have not been there with that weapon.

    As an aside: Are you getting many miles in this summer? I’ll hit 3K on my Madone this week.

  33. Some very prominent attorneys will be arguing the specifics of the events leading to the shootings in Kenosha. Already it is being said that the rifle was from WI and never left the state, also the WI law pertaining to a minor carrying the rifle may be challenged as being vague and not well defined, also that Rittenhouse came under attack by rioters…err…”peaceful protesters” and acted in self defense (as shown in a number of videos of the events).

    The arguments will be made at legal proceedings forthcoming. Emery, Esq. will not be making any of those legal arguments.

  34. Scott, alas he will be making plenty here, on-topic and via threadjack as trolls usually do.

  35. Dictionary.com defines “assault weapon” as “any of various automatic and semiautomatic military firearms utilizing an intermediate-power cartridge, designed for individual use”. Merriam-Webster’s online definition is “any of various automatic or semiautomatic firearms; especially: assault rifle”.

  36. various automatic and semiautomatic

    Key wording. An assault rifle is a select-fire weapon, where the squeeze of a trigger can either fire one bullet (semi-automatic) or more than one (burst-fire or fully-automatic, depending on the weapon).

    You earlier described It as an “assault rifle”, not as an “assault weapon”. The terms are not interchangeable. An assault rifle can be an assault weapon, but an assault weapon is not necessarily an assault rifle.

  37. I’m not an expert on Wisconsin gun laws like Emery, but here’s an interesting anecdote, for what it’s worth. I attended a grandson’s birthday party in Wisconsin over the weekend. One of the attendees said that in Wisconsin, it’s illegal for a person under 18 to BUY a rifle, but a person under 18 can CARRY a rifle, which is obvious to all during hunting season. And a person under 18 can USE a rifle to defend himself from attack, if he meets the other criteria. For what it’s worth.

    The on-line dictionary definition of “assault rifle” reflects common usage, not proper usage. For that, you must consult an expert — Wikipedia. An “assault rifle” is one that is capable of switching from fully-automatic to semi-automatic fire. Merriam Webster mentions that in its definition (which I notice you omitted from your quote) but it’s important because it’s a critical distinction. The reason Liberals mis-use it, is to confuse and frighten the public into believing that sporting rifles are the same as military rifles. That’s an untruth told to deceive others, a lie.

    But you already knew that, Emery, didn’t you?

  38. Once again Emery is blowing talking points out his arse. Could you do some fact finding before demonstrating your a) lack of knowledge, or b) or outright prevarications?

    The rifle never crossed a border.

  39. Oh by the way Emery, your Dictionary.com definition doesn’t prove your point. No military in the world uses the AR-15. So de facto, not a military firearm.

  40. Loren, plenty of military around the world use G17th and F92s and 1911s and SIGs and… you get the idea. Military also uses plenty of bolt action rifles and shotguns. Don’t fall for the bullshit narrative.

  41. I am no lawyer but this kid will likely walk free and I am willing to bet the case will be quietly dropped when no one is looking. And then kid should sue the bastard DAs for malicious prosecution. Lin will have a field day with this one making the kid a very rich man.

    Pierce added, “Every person that has any sense at all is going to take a weapon to that location. It was a legal weapon. I can’t comment right now further on the specifics of where the weapon was obtained. It was obtained as a legal weapon. It did not cross state lines. That charge is incorrect as a matter of law in Wisconsin. Actually, that weapon can be possessed by anyone 16 years or older.”

    Pollak asked, “People are wondering why he would come to a violent scene. Was he looking to be a hero? Was he looking for confrontation? What was his motivation?”

    “Kyle was not there looking for a fight,” Pierce remarked. “He is a great kid who serves as a community lifeguard in Kenosha. He was there to protect businesses that were being destroyed and burned to the ground. He was also there to provide medical aid to protesters and others who might be wounded. He actually took a first aid kit there to help wounded protesters, which he did repeatedly.”

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