Per my post yesterday, I went to last night’s meeting of the Saint Paul School Board. There, I met Swiftee from “Pair O’ Dice”.
The mission? Speak out against the movement by a well-heeled pressure group to ban or hinder military recruiters from Saint Paul School property.
The actual “public response” portion of the agenda was shorter than I’d expected. Aside from Swiftee and I (and a woman who was there to testify about an issue that was both unrelated and deeply familiar), the only speakers were a couple of not-overly-articulate kids from “Youth Against War and Racism”, supported by a couple of rows of Volvo (or Subaru)-driving, alpaca-wearing, Whole Foods-shopping, patchouli-reeking, puerile-placard-bearing pro-dictatorship “anti-war” activist types.
It’s always a pleasure to watch Tom Swift engage the School Board. What he lacks in Ciceronian polish, he makes up for in passion. It was – as always – a joy to watch Ann Carroll, Swiftee’s nemesis on the board, shrink down behind the desk when Tom teed up.
The fun, as Tom relates, was after the public hearing was over. The rows of “activists” noisily got up and stampeded for the door like a bunch of Grateful Dead fans who’d heard there was a bag of Fritos in the rest room; Tom and I quietly left via the side door.
And then it got weird:
After receiving a few handshakes from parents and military vets, we were accosted by a young guy with a “Free Palestine” button on his coat who wanted to have a little dialogue with us…sure, I’ll play!
While we listened to his “Haliburton owns the military” spiel…
Talking with “Eric” was, indeed, of a piece with a pattern I’ve observed in many attempts to engage these people in a rational debate. When confronted by facts, they inevitably squiggle away into bizarre conspiracy theories and fanciful self-aggrandizing victimization operas.
Of course, that’s among the ones that make some pretense of rationality, which to be fair, Eric tried. Others, as I noted in my coverage of the pro-terrorist “Anti-war” demonstration last month, have let the surly bonds of civility slip, as Tom relates.
… a live, breathing specimen of one of Mitch’s patented “smug, alpaca wearing, Volvo driving, tofu and beansprout eating, prematurely grey” female moonbats cruised by to spin the propeller on her tinfoil hat for us by (loudly) proclaiming that George Bush had “arranged” the 9/11 attacks.
As her pencil-necked life partner shuffled her quickly out of smackdown range, with her screaming incoherently all the while (I think it had something to do with chimpyMcbushitler but I can’t be sure), “Free Palestine” informed us that she was frustrated and felt powerless.
Swiftee is too charitable. The woman – a late 40-early-50-something who ooozed “college educated government/non-profit worker”, although that’s just a first impression – had veins bulging from her face; she was howling in an ululating tone that suggested she genuinely felt horrified to confront dissent. “Why don’t you go to Iraq yourself”, she snivelled as her partner shuffled her, all a-vapor, toward their Volvo.
“So only the military gets to speak?” I yelled after her – but I let her go. Confronting actual reason would have probably given her a stroke.
I turned back to “Eric”.
“So”, he said, affecting a moist, unctuous, lecturing tone, “how do you rationalize the fact that our military isn’t democratic, but it’s supposedly spreading democracy around the world?”
I stood, stunned. Swiftee, to his credit, took a whack at it. Finally, words came to me.
“Of course the military isn’t ‘democratic’ – but it’s controlled by civilians, who are elected. The military isn’t controlled by a fascist dictatorship”.
“Eric” affected that “gotcha” look that the rhetorically dim take on, looking a bit like a toddler that’d made a really good pants. “How do you know it’s not a fascist dictatorship”.
“Oh, for chrissake…”, I started, taking a deep breath, ready to lay into him.
Swiftee was, well, swifter. “I gotta go”, he said, taking his leave. It was, in retrospect, the right call.
I can’t wait to do it again!
Talking with “Eric” was, indeed, of a piece with a pattern I’ve observed in many attempts to engage these people in a rational debate. When confronted by facts, they inevitably squiggle away into bizarre conspiracy theories and fanciful self-aggrandizing victimization operas. ”
Mitch, and all folks looking to engage in meaningful discussion with flaming liberals, Read the first chapter on Ann Coulter’s book, How to talk to a liberal. The book really isn’t that good, but, the first chapter is priceless! It should be required reading for every kid in school. It gives gives you the left wing activist playbook and how to argue against them! ITS GREAT! I’ve got friends from years ago that I call the “Marx Brothers”. We used to still do things together now and then even though are lives are going in different directions. We don’t anymore, because I’ve been catching them using all their little games and they have given up all political discussion because they cannot argue their point with shouting, name calling, pulling facts out of their arses, or trying to change the subject.
I think I’ve also met your friend Eric at the Ford Plant meetings I’ve been attending. He was handing out Earth Day rally flyers. I said to him “do you have a “I heart terrorism” button too? He had no reply.
All in all it was a lesson in why I no longer “talk to” moonbats; it’s a complete waste of time that always leaves me with a migrane.
Much better to just swat them out of the air as soon as they fly by.
It must be said that Mitch’s chastisment was an excellent example of the speakers art. Everyone, moonbats included listened carefully because Mitch is interesting to listen to.
I go for a more er, visceral reaction…heh.
Last week I listened to a Michael Medved repeat in which he spent an hoour engaging the president of the Berkley CA city council. This was last fall, pre-election. The subject was Berkley’s Very Important ballot initiative calling for impeachment.
This poor, drooling excuse for an intellect repeated the sad old accusations of stolen elections and warned us all sternly about the one impending. She was sure Bushco would steal another one.
These people are funny in a limited, Mr. Bean sort of way.
Talking to moonbats is indeed the most difficult thing on earth. I was out to dinner with a long-time friend not too long ago, and he resorted to actually screaming at me in the middle of a relatively nice restaurant. No more politics talk with this guy.
As Mitch can attest, I used to try to engage them, as well. Then, when I realized that while composing most of my responses I grappled with the temptation to deploy the phrase, “Man, you’ve got *serious* Daddy issues, haven’t you?” I stopped.
And now, I have an adolescent son with…you guessed it, Daddy issues. Chatting with him is like chatting with them. Except, I still love him and so I don’t go around insulting him and pointing and laughing. This experience being so much like Chatting with those others tells me all I need to know about those days and the regrets I USED to have about them.
This is one of the things the bugs the hell out of me about MSM. When they do stories on “piece activists”, like the Highland Villiger did a couple of months ago, they find, or at least portray them as nice, rational, we-only-want-what’s-best-for-our-children types.
But I always run into the wackos. The nasty, mean wackos. It will be interesting to see how they report the freaks that come here next year for the Republican convention.
Chuck wrote, “It will be interesting to see how they report the freaks that come here next year for the Republican convention.”
The nasty, mean whackos (this time, the “anarkids”) are notching it up…
http://freedomdogs.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1752&Itemid=1
Angryclown wouldn’t know anything about it, of course, “bovious”, but one suspects that some of those folks might say they’ve simply got “asshole issues.”
did ya see that Al stepped down today?
Right you are, Mitch.
You gotta confront these peoplewith the facts about Saddam’s Al Qaeda ties, the WMDs we found in Iraq, how much safer Iraqi towns like Tal Afar are after our troops are finished there, how much more influential and more secure America is in the world since the war, and how much more respect our military strength garners in the world.
It’s like some people don’t even watch FOX News.
/jc
Angryclown is wiser than he lets on. That’s exactly what they’d say.
They also say a great number of demonstrably untrue things, though, so I simply stopped talking with them.
Right you are.
You gotta confront these moonbats with the facts about Saddam’s Al Qaeda ties, the WMDs we found in Iraq, how much safer Iraqi towns like Tal Afar are after our troops are finished there, how much more influential and more secure America is in the world since the war, and how much more respect our military strength garners in the world.
It’s like some people don’t even watch FOX News.
/jc
You gotta confront these moonbats… blah blah blah…
…except the discussion was more along the lines of “Bush was behind 9/11” and “America is a fascist dictatorship”.
Motion is summarily rejected.
Yeah Slash. Dontcha know Mitch is setting up crazy lefty strawmen for him and his wingnut pals to knock down candlepin-style? Sheesh!
Nothing straw about it.
Tell the lad that, like himself, the military is simply a tool. A tool of the civilian leadership of the U.S. to be used for its very specific role in advancing U.S. interests. They’re just the tip of the spear, battering ram. Once the door is open, then the real work of “spreading democracy” begins – and not by the military. That’s what the CIA black-bag teams are for.
Then call him a tool again, just for emphasis.
>“Eric” affected that “gotcha” look that the rhetorically dim take on, looking a bit like a toddler that’d made a really good pants. “How do you know it’s not a fascist dictatorship”.
Thank you Mitch. I needed that:)
I think the question was disingenuous, or that ‘Eric’ is entirely ignorant of what being a ‘fascist dictatorship’ entails.
Asked honestly, “How do you know it’s not a fascist dictatorship?” would be expressed in tones of secrecy and fear. One usually doesn’t take on an air of superiority while repeated saying things that can get one jailed, tortured, or killed.
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