Shot in the Dark

Repeat a Big Lie Often Enough

In the wake of Rep. Ellison’s “Reichstag Fire” smear, Brodkorb notes that making Nazi analogies – or even calling them “Nazis” – is becoming pretty standard practice among DFLers.

He has a list:

  • The SD 42 DFL website once called the SD 42 Republicans “Goebbelesque” and contained the following message: “They’re so SENSITIVE to being called Nazis, but if the boot fits . . .” The Nazi reference was later removed.

This, in particular – Lourey comparing legal wrangling over the legal definition of marriage to loading gays into boxcars and pushing them into the gas chambers – was sign of a deeper pathology.

  • Coleen Rowley’s campaign blog published a picture of Congressman John Kline, a decorated U.S. Marine, dressed in a Nazi uniform.

Civility for we, but not for ye, apparently.

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Mitch Berg

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59 responses to “Repeat a Big Lie Often Enough”

  1. Doug Avatar
    Doug

    Badda said,

    “I get the impression you aren’t going to provide the relevant information, Doug.”

    You’re right. I, unlike Michael Brodkorb don’t run a blog dedicated to spinning and then disseminating statements made by Democratic leaders.

    It was Joseph Goebbels that said, “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”

    Brodkorp cites this; “The Minnesota DFL distributed “Bush/Cheney — Most hated world leaders since Hitler” bumper stickers in 2004.”

    If you follow the link to MDE there is a Sept 2004 Star Trib story that reads;

    Tonya Tennessen, the DFL Party’s managing communications director, said Wednesday that about 10 such stickers arrived in the mail from “an organization I’ve never heard of,” called changetheregime.us. The stickers sat on a receptionist’s desk “for about two hours until I removed them,” Tennessen said. “These are not something we were or are distributing.”

    So, the issue would seem to be resolved. The DFL was not distributing these.

    But what does Brodkorb do? Repeat the lie of course. I’m sure the irony is lost on most people here.

    In the unlikely event I decided to run for public office, I’ll refrain from calling MDE’s efforts Goebbelesque.

    Next’

    “The SD 42 DFL website once called the SD 42 Republicans “Goebbelesque”.”

    If the SD 42 Republicans were repeating lies and propaganda, their actions are fair game and “Goebbelesque” describes the technique for which Goebbeles is famous. As such, it is a perfectly legitimate description. If you need to invent a new word to describe the process so your delicate sensibilities aren’t bruised, feel free.

    “Former State Senator Steve Kelley, the DFL-endorsed candidate for attorney general in 2006, once “compared a Pledge of Allegiance requirement to the rituals of Nazi Germany.“

    Making it compulsory for student to salute the flag and say the pledge punishable with expulsion and suspension for non-compliance IS reminiscent of Nazi Germany. If you believe reciting a pledge makes you a great American, your bar is set pretty low.

    “Former State Senator Becky Lourey, a DFL candidate for governor in 2006, compared DOMAgate to the Nazi persecution of Jews. “

    No She didn’t. She used a familiar piece by Martin Niemöller to articulate that it is important to protect the rights of everyone. Not just yourself.

    I would hope to God you are smart enough to see through MDE’s ridiculous attempts at creating controversy where there is none.

  2. Mitch Avatar
    Mitch

    Oh, and Doug?

    Right now, with none of your usual impotent BS, name a civil liberty that’s been curtailed.

    Now.

    Before you leave any other comment on any subject.

    Simple fact: Clinton did more to curtail civil liberties than Bush, and Pelosi and Hillary! want to do even more.

    But never mind. Answer my question.

    Now.

  3. Mitch Avatar
    Mitch

    If the SD 42 Republicans were repeating lies and propaganda, their actions are fair game and “Goebbelesque” describes the technique for which Goebbeles is famous. As such, it is a perfectly legitimate description. If you need to invent a new word to describe the process so your delicate sensibilities aren’t bruised, feel free.

    If one is going to invoke Naziism, one had best have their case in order.

    Invoking Goebbels’ “Big Lie” dictum is perfectly legitimate in cases where someone is doing just that; for example, those who repeat the “Bush has curtailed civil liberties” or “the Burkett Memos are legitimate!” memes.

    Others – like Ellison’s statement, or the DFL SD42 flap, or the Rowley “Kline is a Nazi” jape? Not so much.

  4. Badda Avatar
    Badda

    Of course, Doug (the Commie that he is) STILL didn’t compare apples to oranges… however, at least he openly refused to as opposed to noodling around for a couple of days (like he often does).

  5. coldeye Avatar
    coldeye

    “Invoking Goebbels’ “Big Lie” dictum is perfectly legitimate in cases where someone is doing just that; for example, those who repeat”… Iraq is an immediate and direct threat to the security of the United States”, and There is no doubt that Iraq was involved in 9/11, and They hate our freedoms (sic)

  6. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Dictum? I hardly know ‘im!

  7. Badda Avatar
    Badda

    Dude, now THAT was a punchline, AC! That’s probably the first (intentionly) funny comment of yours in a long time.

    Maybe you’re not in the tertiary stage after all.

  8. Mitch Avatar
    Mitch

    Coldeye illustrates my point perfectly:

    “Invoking Goebbels’ “Big Lie” dictum is perfectly legitimate in cases where someone is doing just that; for example, those who repeat”… Iraq is an immediate and direct threat to the security of the United States”,

    And the President said that precisely where and when?

    He didn’t. You are repeating a Big Lie.

    and There is no doubt that Iraq was involved in 9/11,

    And the President said that precisely where and when?

    He didn’t. You are repeating a Big Lie.

    and They hate our freedoms (sic)

    Finally, the truth. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Babs Boxer and the whole “Bring Back the Fairness Doctrine” crowd do hate our freedoms.

    1 for three, Mr. Eye. Not good.

  9. coldeye Avatar
    coldeye

    There is no doubt that Iraq was involved in 9/11,

    Q. And the President said that precisely where and when?

    A1. and Coldeye said “the President said that” precisely where and when?
    And in what authoratative history source is a Big Lie defined based on precise statements and excused by lawyerly parsing of words?

    A2.a http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/2003Sincerely, 0319-1.html
    “Text of a Letter from the President to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate
    March 18, 2003:
    Consistent .with .. the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution …, I determine that
    (2) acting … is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.
    Sincerely,
    GEORGE W. BUSH

    Now, that is not “saying precisely” that Iraq was responsible for 9/11 but who ever said a ile of this magnitude was based on one precise statement (except some felon’s lawyer)? In Texas we only let a fella’s lawyer lie like that because we expect them too – that’s their job.. BUT we hold our leaders to a higher standard, especially those with the power to launch a war, and especially those who do. Also we believe in accountability for the CEOs subordinates, so these statements count too:

    1.2.b Source: Meet the Press, NBC (9/8/2002).
    “VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: Well, I want to be very careful about how I say this. I’m not here today to make a specific allegation that Iraq was somehow responsible for 9/11. I can’t say that. On the other hand, . . . new information has come to light. And we spent time looking at that relationship between Iraq, on the one hand, and the al-Qaeda organization on the other. And there has been reporting that suggests that there have been a number of contacts over the years. . . . There is — again, I want to separate out 9/11, from the other relationships between Iraq and the al-Qaeda organization. .
    QUESTION: But no direct link?
    VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: I can’t — I’ll leave it right where it’s at. I don’t want to go beyond that. I’ve tried to be cautious and restrained in my comments.” (and I never stated that Jim is drunk most of the time and beats his wife, I never actually stated that and I want to be careful to let you know that just because I am bringing up the subject does not mean I actually said it, and you know it was not me who said he kicks his dog either, you know.)

    1.2.c WSJ Online February 28, 2007, 3:06 pm
    …the Pentagon inspector general released a report saying Feith’s office acted “inappropriately” by distributing intelligence assessments in late 2002 that alleged former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein had an operational relationship with al Qaeda. The IG report said the assessments were passed on to White House officials as finished intelligence products, even though the Central Intelligence Agency disagreed with more than half of the findings.

    Mitch, if you want to go on record saying that the BA did not actively promote 9/11 as a direct justification for attacking Sasddam Husssein’s regime, go ahead and please be clear about it.

    In the real world though. if there is a Big Lie here, I’m going to bet history judges it to be leveraging 9/11 as one of two selling points for the Iraq War, not that the BA did so.

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