The Politics Of Irony
By Mitch Berg
Lassie from Freedom Dogs went to Keith Ellison’s town hall forum on “credit justice”.
Don’t get me wrong; people need to get a lot smarter about credit. I was one of them, and I’m still paying for it (and I didn’t get bit too bad, and am almost done).
Lassie relates a story by a woman who, as it was stated, had it far worse:
Carrie told of being laid off after working 8 years with a company. She was 6 months pregnant with an eight year old daughter, and had to go on COBRA for insurance, which she couldn’t afford. Her 8-year old went to visit her father in Argentina and found out that everyone there (including visitors) gets free health insurance. So she told her to go the dentist while she’s there. Unable to pay her insurance and credit card payments, she told of her rating going down and interest rate going up. I kind of felt for her, and anyone who goes through financial hardship through unexpected circumstances. Her husband/partner and baby were in attendance.
Ow. I feel her pain, more or less; I had a few credit cards that went doggo when my job situation, back in 2003, went to pot.
But then…:
Then, I walked out to the parking lot, where I noticed Carrie’s husband/partner with their baby waiting at their car.
Yep. A BMW. Ellison’s “Politics of Generosity” seems to be working well with Carrie. I wonder if her 8-year old got braces in Argentina, too.
To be fair, we don’t know that the Beemer wasn’t paid for by Argentinian taxpayers, either…
July 16th, 2007 at 7:36 am
From Freedom Dogs,
“With that, he introduced a “highly accomplished, dear friend” of his, Carrie…”
Hmmmm… Carrie, who is highly accomplished could, at one time afford and drive a BMW. But now, her credit is shot and can’t even afford to get health insurance yet because she still has the BMW, she isn’t a credible person… Do I have that about right?
July 16th, 2007 at 7:49 am
C’mon, Doug — You have to admit that didn’t look good/credible. If she sold the BMW for a more economical car (or used public transit), it would have helped with her bills. And I believe she mentioned she worked in the public sector (rehab development on Broadway Ave.). Methinks that didn’t pay enough to afford a 740i model.
July 16th, 2007 at 8:17 am
My guess is that the BMW is leased. Probably around $550/month. That would buy a lot of health insurance.
July 16th, 2007 at 8:42 am
Doug, I think back to when I did the Thanksgiving food-shelf handout for the NEAR food-shelf. There were people standing in line talking on their cell phones. A lot of them. I helped several carry out their food and put it in their large, gas guzzling 4×4 pickups and SUVs.
Imparting dignity to beggars is insane.
July 16th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Carrie, who is highly accomplished could, at one time afford and drive a BMW.
Well, that’s one possible explanation.
Of course, you haven’t the foggiest clue if it’s accurate or not.
Another possible explanation: she lost her job, and her own benefits; hubby/boyfriend is loaded enough to own/lease/drive a Beemer, but Carrie still found it more convenient (and a better story! and more salable and useful to Keith Ellison!) to plead poverty and fob her kid’s dental work off on the taxpayers of Argentina.
July 16th, 2007 at 10:06 am
she lost her job, and her own benefits; hubby/boyfriend is loaded enough to own/lease/drive a Beemer
Of course, you haven’t the foggiest clue if it’s accurate or not but that didn’t stop you did it and it didn’t stop Lassie from making a lot of assumptions either but both of you still found it more convenient (and a better story! and more salable and useful to Keith Ellison haters!) to claim hypocrisy than to get the facts.
See, if you were the media, you’d be engaging in irresponsible journalism. But since you’re just a couple of regular people posting commentary, you get a free pass. Isn’t that convenient!?!
July 16th, 2007 at 11:47 am
Carrie, who is highly accomplished could, at one time afford and drive a BMW.
Lots of people can afford nicer things then they have right now. Part of being adult – particularly one responsible for the welfare of a child – is to forgo these “wants” to make sure that you’ve got enough set aside for an emergency. Someone how your explanation that she probably once had money and chose to splurge on a fancy car rather than set aside the money for a rainy day and now has apparently managed to keep the care while pleading poverty to the rest of us doesn’t make her sympathetic.
July 16th, 2007 at 11:49 am
Of course, you haven’t the foggiest clue if it’s accurate or not but that didn’t stop you did it and it didn’t stop Lassie from making a lot of assumptions either but both of you still found it more convenient (and a better story! and more salable and useful to Keith Ellison haters!) to claim hypocrisy than to get the facts.
Punctuation. It’s a good thing.
I’ll lay odds my version is closer to the truth – should we ever discover it – than yours. It usually is.
See, if you were the media, you’d be engaging in irresponsible journalism. But since you’re just a couple of regular people posting commentary, you get a free pass. Isn’t that convenient!?!
Damn that First Amendment.
You oughtta get the government to regulate free speech…oh, wait, your people are trying to do that even as we speak!
July 16th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
The real irony here is that non-cohabiting parents can afford to send their kid on long-haul international flights but still expect the government — that is, their friends and neighbors with kids of their own to worry about — to pay for the little jetsetter’s dental appointments.
July 16th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
TW said,
“Part of being adult – particularly one responsible for the welfare of a child – is to forgo these “wants” to make sure that you’ve got enough set aside for an emergency”
Another item to add to the assumption hit parade… How do you know she didn’t do just that and the money set aside has been exhausted? You don’t.
If it is her car, how do you know she’s not already looking at having to sell the car? You don’t.
Let’s look at the one thing we do know. Her credit rating is shot. We know that because she actually said it. Lassie suggests though that this person should sell the car and buy a more economical car. Ever try to get a new or used car from a reputable dealer with ruined credit – even paying cash? Ever try to get car insurance with ruined credit?
You can’t buy a car off the lot without having insurance in place and you can’t get insurance with ruined credit because they consider you too high of a risk.
Let’s say she sells the car and uses the cash to pay bills and uses public transportation. Great! She has ruined credit so getting a car in the future becomes nearly impossible.
Of course the point is completely moot since nobody here is certain it’s even her car. We do however know that a guy that Lassie identifies as either Carrie’s husband or partner had a baby in a car seat on the trunk of a BMW. Fortunately, Mitch won’t let the facts get in the way of a good story – not when you’ve got rhetoric to back up your assumptions.
The part that gets completely lost in the entire discussion though is the practice of jacking up your rates for all of your credit accounts if you accidentally miss or can’t afford to make payments on one of your accounts.
Shiny object! Shiny object!
July 16th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Doug: Carrie said she lived off her unemployment insurance while she sought another job (read, no apparent nest egg). I have her speech recorded. Another eyewitness saw her get out of that car before the event began.
Maybe it isn’t her car. If it is, she still could have traded/sold for a more economical model before she defaulted on her credit card payments. In either case, it didn’t help her credibility in my eyes.
I refer to Diamond Dog’s response to my original post: “John Edwards is right. There really are two Americas. But not in the way he sees them. There are those who want to earn a living and enjoy the fruits of their labor, and there are those who want to coast at your expense.”
There are those who are preyed upon by unscrupulous lenders, there are others who prey upon hard-working taxpayers for a free ride.
July 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
At Doug’s credit emporium, people with less ability to repay will be granted the same interest rate as those more likely to pay.
I encourage all those with poor or falling FICA scores to apply at Doug’s Credit Emporium quickly while he still has a few pennies to rub together.
July 16th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
Another item to add to the assumption hit parade… How do you know she didn’t do just that and the money set aside has been exhausted? You don’t.
If it is her car, how do you know she’s not already looking at having to sell the car? You don’t.
You really are missing the point. Had she have been responsible she never would have bought a BMW in the first place (not to mention what it must have cost to insure a car like that). Waiting to fix her initial irresponsibility in the two scenarios you suggest is too little, too late. Moreover since the BMW is apparently still on the road and assuming she isn’t breaking the law – how’s she affording the auto insurance now?
July 16th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Doug is absolutely right!
Driving (or riding) a BMW away from an event where you blamed your credit problems on big credit doesn’t undercut your credibility at all. *rolls eyes*
Making counter-assumptions to possibly explain the situation does not make the situation look any better. I’d stick with the “this doesn’t look good but you guys are making a lot of assumptions” tack. :-/
July 16th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
Mitch won’t let the facts get in the way of a good story – not when you’ve got rhetoric to back up your assumptions.
Well, there may be more than rhetoric, soon.
But Doug, you didn’t have a lot of “facts” going for you, either.
The part that gets completely lost in the entire discussion though is the practice of jacking up your rates for all of your credit accounts if you accidentally miss or can’t afford to make payments on one of your accounts.
And while that’s a fine discussion to have – I make a point of never patronizing any credit that operates under those terms – that’s not, and never has been, the issue in this thread. Ellison’s credibility is.
Shiny object! Shiny object!
Keep digging. We’ve made you look like a fool enough times, you should be getting comfy with it.
July 16th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
What ‘shiny object’? The presence of a BMW is meant to contrast with “Carrie”‘s statement that she was destitute, not distract from that statement.
July 16th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
You know when I first heard about a story of a BMW-driving American encouraging her daughter to use a program that supposed to help REALLY POOR people in a third world country where they don’t even have enough health care resources to meet their own people’s basic dental needs, it reminded me of the scene from “Starvin Marvin” where Sally Struthers is gorging herself on food that was supposed to go to feed the starving Ethiopians.
Lassie, you didn’t by any chance notice whether her BMW was parked in a handicapped spot did you?
July 16th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
What ’shiny object’?
Oh, don’t mind Doug. His brain’s default setting is “condescend”. When he has nothing else – which is pretty much always – that’s what he rolls back to.
July 16th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
So let’s run down the possibilities:
1) The Beemer belongs to Carrie. We can find that out, I think. If so, it might indicate she’s pretty woefully irresponsible, for reasons noted above (oughtta downscale the car before you go bust and impact your kids).
2) Beemer belongs to a friend who gave her and the babies a lift. Again, we can figure that out. If true, then the Beemer is most likely a non-issue.
3) Beemer belongs to Carrie’s new husband. That’d be interesting: are they BOTH in credit trouble?
4) Beemer belongs to a boyfriend. If the boyfriend and Carrie live together, this is a fairly common dodge to avoid losing alimony from the first hubby (assuming Carrie and the Argentine guy were married – can’t remember). If so – and again, we may be able to figure that out – it’d be pretty low-rent, sponging off the Argentinian taxpayer for the dental work, to say nothing of the sob story she’s telling, as if she’s some put-upon single mom with no resources.
Bear in mind, none of us (that means you too, Doug) know which (if any) of these are the case. But it’d be interesting to find out.
July 16th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Mitch said,
“Bear in mind, none of us (that means you too, Doug) know which (if any) of these are the case.”
Bingo.
July 16th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Right, but unlike you, *we* have a decent chance of being able to come up with an answer.
As opposed to a condescending snark.
Like this one:
Stay tuned.
July 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
So let me get this straight… You’re going to go gather the facts…?
July 16th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Good lord man, nothing gets past you! You have a mind like a
diligent junior election observer with an official badge and decoder ringsteel trap.Suffice to say it’s a work in progress.
July 16th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Maybe next time you can do that before drawing conclusions… Ya’ Think?
July 16th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
What I’ve been wondering is, how much does round trip airfare to Argentina cost, and who paid for that?
July 16th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
What I’ve been wondering is, how much does round trip airfare to Argentina cost, and who paid for that?
Also does it strike anyone else as odd that an airline would let an unaccompanied eight-year old fly from the United States to Argentina? Seems to me that there might have had to be two tickets purchased.
July 16th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Facts, facts, facts.
The BMW 740i series was introduced in 1994.
In 2000, the base price of a new 740i was $62,970.
http://www.nctd.com/review-intro.cfm?ReviewID=584
Bad form to testify about your poverty after arriving in a private vehicle that retailed for about four times the annual income poverty threshold for your family of three.
July 16th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Maybe next time you can do that before drawing conclusions…
No conclusions were drawn.
Observations were made.
Do you know the difference?
Or do I need to drizzle frosting on the point for you to pay attention?
July 16th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Bottom line, I would bet she’s scamming. It never FAILS to surprise us and Doug knows that as well. He just will not admit it, along with all the other liberal crap he refuses to call crap. I admit-I am drawing a conclusion, but it’s one borne of observation.
Go to the food shelves and then follow the people taking free food. Follow them to the casinos, follow them to the liquor store, follow them to the convenience store where they buy cartons of cigarettes for $35 or more. They have no guilt, no pride, no compunctions about taking what is not theirs while they spend their money on what they want…not need.
July 16th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
“And while that’s a fine discussion to have – I make a point of never patronizing any credit that operates under those terms – that’s not, and never has been, the issue in this thread. Ellison’s credibility is.”
Of course! If you want to attack someones credibility, go after a third party who is peripherally involved!
July 16th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Ellison introduced “Carrie” this way, according to Lassie:
“With that, he introduced a “highly accomplished, dear friend” of his, Carrie, to share her story of injustice by the big bad banks and health care system.”
Peripherally involved in what, Doug? Her own story?
July 16th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Doug, this “third party” was given headliner status at the forum — Ellison called her up to speak before before the advertised panelists.
Try looking peripherally sometime Doug (without the blinders). I did, and found an Ellison dog and pony show for the media. Maybe 8 out of the 50 there were actually residents attending (we were given a day and a half’s notice in the local paper)… and my friends and I were 4 of those 8.
July 17th, 2007 at 8:14 am
Mitch promised: “Suffice to say it’s a work in progress.”
I smell spreadsheets!
July 17th, 2007 at 11:23 am
For those who don’t understand the DIABOLISM and SECRET MACHINATIONS of PNAC and want to see WHO IS REALLY IN CHARGE OF AMERIKKKA I suggest you check out this link:
http://www15.ocn.ne.jp/~oyakodon/doc4.htm