Second Russian Civil War (?) Open Thread
By Mitch Berg
I didn’t have “coup” on my bingo card for today.
Free reign to romp and play in the comments is granted. is granted.
Don’t let it go to your heads.
62 Responses to “Second Russian Civil War (?) Open Thread”
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June 25th, 2023 at 6:16 pm
No one knows what’s likely to happen. I don’t know if this was good or bad. I guess, Wagner is down for the moment which to some extent subtracts from the sum total of Russian effort, so that’s a plus. Relative to 24 hours ago, it’s a negative in that a real head on fight between Wagner and Russian forces could have weakened Putin further. I don’t know how much influence Prigozhin will continue to have. He could continue to be a dissenter but sans his army, he is neutered and perhaps will be assassinated soon, would not shock anyone if that happens.
Did the last 3 days change much? I guess Putin was directly challenged by other Russians in a way he hasn’t been in 2 decades, so that’s the biggest positive for me. Perhaps others will stand up too. It’s also possible the calculations of the elite supporting Putin will change. Especially if Prigozhin continues to live. If people can see that one can challenge Putin in a most direct way and doesn’t get crushed, it can embolden others
I’m hoping Xi will learn some lessons from this. That even an absolute dictator with full control of his nation could be shaken and possibly ousted if undertaking a needless war. That wars are inherently unpredictable and there is no telling what may happen to genocidal CCP if they invade Taiwan.
June 25th, 2023 at 8:21 pm
With luck, Lesko Brandon can bring down both Russia and China through his unorthadox but brilliant foreign policy. That is, if Ukraine and Taiwan have enough men to hold out long enough.
June 26th, 2023 at 8:11 am
I’m hoping Xi will learn some lessons from this. That even an absolute dictator with full control of his nation could be shaken and possibly ousted if undertaking a needless war. That wars are inherently unpredictable and there is no telling what may happen to genocidal CCP if they invade Taiwan.
Behold, fellow SitD citizens, the leftist foreign policy of wishful thinking.
June 26th, 2023 at 8:11 am
Oddly enough, Prigozhin’s perceived treachery is coalescing ordinary russians behind Putin – not to stick a knife in his back but to support him. Who would have guessed that!
June 26th, 2023 at 9:44 am
Most comments on the weekend’s events have not paid enough attention to what Prigozhin said on Friday about the war itself. That Putin was misled into starting it and hinting that it was not a war that Russia needed and that the elite did not care about the loss of life of the soldiers sent to fight. Those are the remarks, not what happened later, which are likely to have the biggest impact on the state of mind of the majority of the Russian people. If it had been said by Navalny no-one would have paid any attention but coming from the front line it has an entirely different importance.
June 26th, 2023 at 12:12 pm
So the wicked traitor has been banished to Belorus. Begone, you villain! Go sulk in Belorus where there is nothing but… Russian nukes?
Didn’t Russia announce last week it moved its tactical dukes to Belorus? The same place this guy just arrived?
Must be a coincidence. Nothing to see here. Move along.
June 26th, 2023 at 4:48 pm
Putin is strengthened. The RF army is absorbing the Wagner guys. The front in Ukraine is littered with burned out NATO armor (according to NPR!) and the Ukes are calling a timeout.
Did something happen?
June 26th, 2023 at 5:23 pm
Well, the US seems to be stuck in a doom loop where we will give Ukraine enough money & weapons to not lose, but not so much that they can win.
I suppose this is why none of the neocons want to talk about what our strategy is. “Not losing and not winning” would give away the game.
June 26th, 2023 at 6:21 pm
MP, since warmongers have no winning strategy, “not losing” will suffice. But then there is no definition of losing either. Kiev remains independent with Zelensky as a sole surviving Uke, but everything else had been cleansed, so we won!
June 26th, 2023 at 7:41 pm
If there’s a stinking hole of fail, the neo cons will fill it, as long as someone dies.
June 26th, 2023 at 8:20 pm
Putin is 71 years old. He has nominated no successor as far as I know. Command of the Russian nuclear arsenal is tied to Putin himself, supposedly. It is his finger alone on the red button.
Back in the day, people blamed the outbreak of WWI on secret treaties. The French had a secret treaty with the Russians pledging mutual defense that the Germans knew nothing about.
Today’s politicians don’t even bother with secret treaties. We seem to have made Ukraine a junior member of NATO after hostilities began, with no democratic procedure of advise and consent.
June 27th, 2023 at 7:26 am
“Stab in the back”? Odd for the guy trying to “de-nazify” other countries to use a term that’s most commonly associated with Hitler. Just sayin’. The term was DolchstoB back in the day.
But, given the degree of Russian attacks on civilians, I guess it’s appropriate that Schickl-Putin would use Schicklgruber’s rhetoric, too.