Lines And Threads

I got an email yesterday from a friend of mine:

At what point is the line officially crossed.

http://restraininorder.blogspot.com/2007/05/babys-best-friend.html

It would be nice to see those of reason on the right to publicly condemn this type of post.

The link is to Swiftee’s post over at Restraining Order about Robin “Rew” Marty and her husband Smarty’s impending arrival.

Now, don’t get me wrong; Robin’s OK; leave aside the fact that she’s the “editor” of the local Soros sock-puppet astroturf groupblog “Minnesota Monitor”, there’s hope; in fact, of all of the Twin Cities’ leftybloggers, I think she (and perhaps even hubby Smarty) stand a pretty decent chance of becoming conservatives when they grow up – and given that they’re expecting, that might even be happening sooner than we thought. Women without children tend to be Democrats; after they have kids, they tend (statistically) to migrate to the right. There’s hope for those crazy kids.

Swiftee reposted the ultrasound picture (from Robin’s blog, “Powerliberal”), and added:

Robin posted a picture of her fetus, but I noticed something awry right away. Given Robin’s obsession with partial birth abortion, I think that little bundle of cells needs some protection…

Baby Sock Puppet

A fetus baby with a helmet. It’s kinda funny, if you don’t know the people involved. Still funny when you do, but it makes me a little uneasy.  I generally prefer to keep politics impersonal.  And yet it’s hard to look at, say, this (not safe for work or queasy stomachs; it’s the end-result of a “partial birth abortion”, and it’s horrific) and not want to make it very personal and not-abstract-at-all for those who support it.

So when is “the line” officially crossed? It depends on what you mean by “the line”.

The line of good taste? Swiftee doesn’t just cross that line routinely; he beats it with an axe. Seriously; I get a little queasy when people bring other peoples’ kids, unborn or not, into their humor. Would I rather that Swiftee not have done the cartoon? Sure.

The line of legitimate satire?  Plenty of thud-witted leftybloggers cavil and gambol about like poo-flinging monkeys when, for example, someone who didn’t serve in the military supports the war; while such bleating doesn’t really rise to the level of “satire” (more like “ignorant, illogical japing”), it’s the same thing – they’re inserting their politics into someone else’s personal situation.  I don’t like any of it, really.

Is Robin and Smarty’s baby “fair game” for satirists, given that

  1. she put the ultrasound out on her public website, and
  2. she and her colleagues from the “Minnesota Monitor” rentablog she “edits” have stumped for abortion on demand and partial birth abortion, and fumed and phumphered when the SCOTUS shot the procedure down?

Well, I’d say “I hope not” – but of course, in the world of internet “cartoonists” (and remember – Swiftee is the Twin Cities’ foremost internet cartoonist, if you leave out “Faithmouse” and “Wapsi Square” and pretty much everyone else but Ken Avidor), pretty much everything is fair game. If there’s an unflattering or embarassing pic of yourself out there somewhere online, it’s going to pop up sooner or later, intended to dink at some belief of yours or another.

So – did Swiftee “cross a line” with his cartoon? What line? Where? In the coarse thrum of the political blogging interchange, I’m not sure there’s a line left anymore; any line one person draws is someone else’s sport to cross, and ones’ best bet is to strictly separate the personal and the public (as, indeed, I do).  The one that civil people try to observe when dealing with one another…

…and, if you’re so inclined, draw your own line.

Which, for me, is this: Congratulations, Rew and Smarty. I’d have not posted an ultrasound pic if it were my kid, but I hope all goes well. For many of us, the morally-disconnected abstraction of the “right to abortion” became a lot more concrete when we had our own kids; abortion was kind of a non-issue for me 16 years ago, too.  But for what it’s worth, I wish Swiftee woulda kept things a lot more abstract – Baaaad Swiftee!  Bad boy! – just as I wish a lot of “pro-choicers” could see things a lot less abstractly.
I’d just as soon everyone leave each others’ kids out of it. They didn’t ask to be included in the discussion.

And that’s really all I have to say about it.

45 thoughts on “Lines And Threads

  1. Mitch shuddered: “And yet it’s hard to look at, say, this (not safe for work or queasy stomachs; it’s the end-result of a “partial birth abortion”, and it’s horrific) ”

    Needs more barbeque sauce?

    Hemorrhoid surgery’s kinda gross too, Mitch. Should we outlaw it?

  2. IMO, you spend way too much time explaining things to moonbats Mitch; I am perfectly comfortable with everything I post.

    If you think that I would (could) overlook the sublime irony of a woman who has, from the highest mountain tops, defended her right to have an unborn child’s skull crushed..for what ever reason…posting pictures of her ultrasound to garner the cooing admiration of her moonbat pack you really don’t know me very well 😉

    If Flash (or whatever moonbat friend it was) is upset, he should contact me personally. As you know, I am perfectly capable of having a reasoned discussion when the issue under discussion is reasonable.

    The fact that he thought he could backflush his problem to me through you says a lot more about lefties in general and the complainer in particular than it does about me. Eff ’em.

    BTW….Fair Warning: If that got them upset, they might not want to visit Pair O’ Dice for the next few weeks, or until I get tired of what is sure to be a great running gag.

  3. Looking forward to the next installment of Fetal Follies Swiftee.

    That little helmet was inspired!

    But you should have armed the little bugger better. Maybe give “it” an AK or a Glock (anything “auto” right Mitch, hehehe) or a flame thrower to fight off the abortionists.

  4. Case in point: “Hemorrhoid surgery’s kinda gross too, Mitch. Should we outlaw it?”

    Only in the “reality based community” is the removal of hemorrhoids and the crushing of an unborn child’s skull considered an apples to apples comparison.

    I’m going to forgo delving into the obvious exclusion to the above in the Assclown family’s case.

  5. Speaking of families, Swift One, shouldn’t you be heading down to the Northwestern graduation this weekend? Or does your kid have a restraining order? Doesn’t mean you can’t bask in the reflected glory of that awesome 3.65 high school GPA, of course.

  6. Thanks for checking in Assclown.

    I hope that answers everyone’s questions.

  7. No problem, Swift One.

    Kinda hard living down the fact that you posted your kids’ grades on Mitch’s blog to impress some moonbat clown, eh?

    Nice job on the embryo, guy. You’re all class.

  8. AC: “You’re all class.”

    In the words of the estimable Mr. Montoya, I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

    Or at least having the clown question someone else’s class is a rather meaningless exercise.

  9. “Kinda hard living down the fact that you posted your kids’ grades on Mitch’s blog to impress some moonbat clown, eh?”

    Yeah, especially since you have made it clear that it is something you think about every day and lay awake at night worrying about.

    Assclown angst…I love it.

    We’re all waiting to see the witty lampoon you post on your blog…oh, that’s right you’re strictly a comment clown.

  10. I am kind of puzzled why Robin posted the ultrasound. Isn’t “it” just tissue, and not an actual human life? Yet, she refers to “it” as he/she and is planning on buying clothes for “it”. Seems like she should be holding off on giving “it” he/she status until it’s born and magically becomes a human being. Very strange. Maybe Mitch is right and she’s just got a few years left of being a lefty. Wait till “it” attend public school.

    Did Swifty cross the line? Yes, so what’s new?

  11. “I am perfectly capable of having a reasoned discussion when the issue under discussion is reasonable.”

    Tom, here is where you are confused. No ‘reasonable’ person would think it is acceptable to insinuate that a child is in danger of being aborted by this expectant mother. Your confusion regarding someones support of individual personal right, and abortion of a healthy, and already loved child is a huge reach even for you

    I know you are capable of reasoned discussion, I just have never seen you actually participate in one.

    That post was pathetic, irresponsible, and wrong. If you are even close to being ‘reasonable’ you’ll pull that tripe and replace with a sincer apology.

    MItch, I am dissapointed in your reaction. I was hoping for the real Mitch, not blogger Mitch, to come out.

    Flash

  12. “I am kind of puzzled why Robin posted the ultrasound. Isn’t “it” just tissue, and not an actual human life?”

    Silly. It’s only a human life when it’s wanted. When it’s inconvenient it become an unviable tissue mass. Gee, situational ethics can be fun! They can suck (pardon the pun) for the unviable tissue mass, though.

  13. Tom, here is where you are confused. No ‘reasonable’ person would think it is acceptable to insinuate that a child is in danger of being aborted by this expectant mother.

    But that’s just described every single abortion; an “expectant mother” decides (for whatever reason) to not go through with it.

    MItch, I am dissapointed in your reaction. I was hoping for the real Mitch, not blogger Mitch, to come out.

    That was the real Mitch. Partial Birth Abortion needs to be put in front of the American people in all of its horror, so that they no longer treat it as an abstract “procedure” – and at the same time I’d like other peoples’ families to be off limits in this sort of rhetorical roughhousing. Swiftee’s a friend AND I happen to agree with his larger point (partial birth abortion must be resisted), and at the same time I wish Robin and Smarty all the best, even though they support (abstractly and on a policy level) something I find repugnant beyond hateful. And I wouldn’t include the baby in any of this if it were my choice.

    It’s pretty simple. Or put another way, very very complicated.

  14. “No ‘reasonable’ person would think it is acceptable to insinuate that a child is in danger of being aborted by this expectant mother.”

    Whaa? It’s wrong to insinuate it but perfectly acceptable to advocate it or actually do it?

    You want to take another stab at that one Flash?

    “Your confusion regarding someones support of individual personal right, and abortion of a healthy, and already loved child is a huge reach even for you.”

    Healthy children are hoiked, limb from limb, out of the wombs of their mothers every day. I’m not confused about anything Flash.

    Any woman who could scream and shout in defense of the absolute barbaric butchery that is euphimastically called “partial birth” abortion has lost a crucial part of what makes a woman a mother…much less a human being.

    I’ll remove the post when, and if, Robin Marty comes to realize that as long as she chooses to be an active advocate of butchery and infanticide she has excluded herself from the consideration civil society accords motherhood…and begs forgiveness from the millions of souls that have been sent into the great beyond before ever having set a foot on planet Earth.

    Flash, as I said to Mitch, I don’t have anything to explain or appologise for. It can be said that I choose to deal with crassness with vitriol, but that doesn’t make me wrong, or make my point any less salient.

  15. And BTW Flash. I have to say that running to Mitch instead of confronting me with your complaints didn’t impress me at all. I think you’re better than that.

  16. Flash-

    So if a child is “healthy” and “already loved” it can’t be aborted, but otherwise it’s open season inside the womb?

    You can’t have it both ways. If it’s a child, it’s always a child. If it’s an unviable tissue mass, it’s always an unviable tissue mass.

    Life isn’t a matter of personal subjectivity.

  17. Way to go Mitch. Abortion rights activists have to look at what they approve of in technicolor. ‘Bout time. I would bet that the arguments and the “offense” taken are knew jerk reactions born out of shame more than outrage.
    Tough bounce. If they don’t feel shame when looking at these pics, theres something wrong with them. Seriously – must have some really fine honed denial and social distancing skills. If anyone disagrees with me, I could care less. BTW, I liked Swiftee’s pic. Some things defy being PC.

  18. “What my friend did was wrong, however society at large blah, blah, blah” okay, fine, another tepid defense of the indefensible. Sure Swiftee is shocking, even infuriating at first but then you realize that life is short and that, in the words of George Bailey, he’s just a “warped, frustrated old man” with a very large collection of cock photos on his hard drive. But that’s for him and his therapist to work out.

    http://www.shotinthedark.info/wp/index.php/index.php/2007/05/16/fallwell/

  19. One minute it’s a “child”, one minute it’s a “choice”! Presto change-o! And yet the sheer gall of this escapes these people….

    Kermit, please buy him one for me.

  20. I’ll pile in and channel a toned-down swiftee:

    Will this start new sessions at Drinking Liberally? Will we now have breakout panels on Choice Rearing? Choice Discipline? Choice Psychology? After all, “It’s not a child, it’s a choice.”

    Actually, I do wish rew the best and I hope that as she gains experience she sees how wonderful this journey is, and what a shame it is to deny the chance to any “choice.”

    It’s a bafflement as to why humanity is a positional statement to abortion supporters. A baby at 9 months gestation is human and protected outside the womb, but inside the womb that exact same child can freely be dismembered. It’s as if we defined someone as human in the kitchen, but not when in the bathroom.

  21. So according to Mitch, this is all Robin’s fault because: #1, she supports legalized abortion, and #2, she posted the photo on her blog.

    I think abortion can be debated without resorting to this.

  22. “I think abortion can be debated without resorting to this.”

    Why? Because it’s effective?

  23. This is not a debate , it’s an example of how situational ethics can come back and bite you in the ass. It’s easy to drown in those hallowed gray areas.

  24. Debate to the Right is blindly supporting a pathetic and irresponsible post involving someone’s personal life.

    If you want to debate the ‘issue’ fine, you’ll see I am a lot closer to you on this issue than you think. But to not only tolerate, but support this unquestioned misuse of common sense and reason says far more about the state of the Right Wing message.

    Like I told Mitch last night, that post has NOTHING to do with the pro life debate. My God, the Supreme court had already ruled and the ‘debate’ was over for now. What Swiftee did was bull shit, and if you guys are going to defend instead of condemn him for it says a lot more about you than it does anyone on the left.

    If someone on the Left would have dragged a bloggers unborn child into a debate with an accusation of potential felonious action that could endanger the child, would you defend them as vigorously . . . . yeah, I though so.

    I’m done with this

    Flash

  25. “My God, the Supreme court had already ruled and the ‘debate’ was over for now.”

    Gee, then all those wailing posts about the ruling on MinnMon and Powerliberal must have been figments of my imagination, n’est pas? You certainly will give up on opposing the ban in the future, right?

    “If someone on the Left would have dragged a bloggers unborn child into a debate with an accusation of potential felonious action that could endanger the child, would you defend them as vigorously . . . . yeah, I though so.”

    Flash, this might help you have a flash of insight: the Right is mocking you and other liberals by taking your words directly and applying them in this case, to something that was publicly announced. Liberals claim that what is occurring here is a mere growth, not a child. That it has no rights, no feelings, no potentiality. How could anyone on the right be trampling on or insulting a mere growth?

    Of course, you could argue that the Right isn’t living up to its code and viewing the choice as a child. But you’ll note that nobody on the right has said anything other than that the child should be protected from the risk of exposure to the horrid consequences of liberal dogma and be given the full protections of a human being. In fact, a fair number of them have wished her the best.

    So, if you want: “Bad Swiftee. You hit a liberal with a rhetorical Mack truck and made them sad and confused, and made them realize just how twisted their moral choices are. You should have used a 2×4.” But then again, it would have taken repeated smacks with a 2×4 and may never have sunk in. Even with this one, given the density of Flash’s skull it may not ever.

  26. Nerdbert: Good last word! (except, oops, for this post-which doesn’t count)

  27. “unquestioned misuse of common sense and reason”? What the hoodie-hoo does that mean?
    I’m of the opinion that bif there were such a thing as common sense, there would be a whole lot more of it.

  28. “Debate to the Right is blindly supporting a pathetic and irresponsible post involving someone’s personal life.”

    Uh, Flash? Have you followed the Jeff Goldstein internet stalker story?

  29. “Liberals claim that what is occurring here is a mere growth, not a child. That it has no rights, no feelings, no potentiality. How could anyone on the right be trampling on or insulting a mere growth?”

    Check out rew’s latest post about a clinic visit. The money quote:

    Best of all, I got to hear the little dude’s heartbeat.

    Heartbeat! A fact that has been pointed out on a million pro-life posters.

    Chad said it best:”You can’t have it both ways. If it’s a child, it’s always a child. If it’s an unviable tissue mass, it’s always an unviable tissue mass.”

  30. All this discussion reminds me of “comedian” Bill Maher’s take on the abortion issue.

    ”I do sort of understand what they’re saying. If you’ve ever seen a sonogram, you know, you could see something that’s emerging as a human being in there. And we are sort of reaching in and killing it. I’m just not against that.”

  31. Flash, every time you make another point, it pounds another nail into the heart of the leftist POV.

    If you take just a minute to think about what you’re writing, you’ll see how obviously, tragically, outrageously flawed the pro-abortion argument is…because you have no leg to stand on.

    Another case in point:

    “If someone on the Left would have dragged a bloggers unborn child into a debate with an accusation of potential felonious action that could endanger the child, would you defend them as vigorously . . . . yeah, I though so.”

    “Felonious action” Flash? We’re talking about abortion, which by anyone who isn’t claiming that the unborn human being is “nothing but a bunch of cells” counts as the ultimate extreme danger to kids…you sure you want to call it felonious?

    If so my post has exceed all expectations; one down and a couple of million left to go!

    I understand your outrage Flash, but it is misplaced. IMO, you’d have a lot more (or some at least) credability if you had expressed, just once, a queasyness over robin’s unreserved advocacy of partial birth abortion.

    Just because she is experiencing the miracle of child bearing today does not excuse her cold-hearted cheerleading of yesterday.

    Unless of course, and it is not unlikely in the least, that through this experience she comes to realize that every human fetus is a human being under construction and every instance of abortion is a tremendous, yes felonious, stain on the face of humanity.

  32. I think we’re all missing the point.

    I don’t think Tom and I disagree on any major point in politics or how we would raise our kids. I’ve read his stuff for a while, going back to the Nick Coleman parody blog.

    I also think he’s an embarrassment to conservatives and prolifers. The absurd cartoons about Avidor make Mitch’s ongoing little-girl-slapfight with Fecke look like high diplomacy. The comments Swiftee makes on other blogs, always quickly degenerating to ‘ur a homo lol!!11!!’ levels of discourse, make us all look like, well, wingnuts.

    Can you imagine Victor Davis Hanson or Peggy Noonan spouting or approving of crap like that? Let alone the founders of modern conservatism like Buckley, Goldwater, Strauss? Pick up the diaries of Ronaldus Magnus and show me something like this crap.

    I’m not suggesting that any blogger must rise to the levels of those I just mentioned. But acting like Swiftee isn’t any different that anything Avidor, or PB/latest sock puppet name, the Dem Underground types do, and I marginalize Swiftee just like I do them.

    I already anticipate Swiftee’s ‘ur a homo liberal asshat’ response. Fine. You’re wrong. And you’re an embarrassment.

  33. longtime…

    What is there to be analytical about? It’s a simple yet horrific issue that will never go away. No matter who expresses their opinion, or how, someone will take a poke at it in a serious manner or in abstract. Swiftee is an intelligent person with an opinion and knows the score – that being that this will go on forever, however the laws read.
    Comparing him to someone else is so useless. It’s all silly. It’s his blog. Spare yourself the torment of reading it. Doesn’t anyone else marvel at the level of absurdity here?
    I’m interested in your criteria in marginalizing someone. That’s what your entire post was about wasn’t it? You’re intelligent and communicate intelligently and you don’t think he does. Just cut to the chase. Why fluff it up with apples and oranges comparisons.
    BTW, anyone who has ever carried a child can tell you that there is no way you could claim there is no intelligence in the “tissue”. Especially at the stage in the pregnancy in which they perform these particular types of abortions. No mistaking it. What really galls me is that they wait until this particular stage to decide to abort. That is the issue we should examine more closely isn’t it? I can cut someone some slack on a moral level for not understanding when they are in their first trimester because at that point, all you feel are symptoms of pregnancy, but after that…especially the third trimester? It blows me away……magically after being born, people ogle over their little “personalities”. Five minutes before they crown they don’t have them? How damn ridiculous.

  34. I noticed that Robin has now created a second blog. Now she has one blog where she celebrates the growth and development of the baby within her, and another where she demands the right to kill it. And you think Swiftee is over the top?

  35. In 1638, the great painter Rembrandt created the most reviled painting of the Renaissance–The Slaughtered Ox:

    http://www.abcgallery.com/R/rembrandt/rembrandt69.html

    So why was it so reviled? He showed that beauty was not dependent on subject matter:

    The warmth of color, the resonance of light and the deep feeling painted into the carcass and the painting as a whole, speak of several issues. The carcass is both horrible and holy. Rembrandt gives us the raw and blatant fact of death – the death that comes to all things that live. He does not back away from death and the idea of dying. In a way, he embraces it here, as if a means of resolving its pain and fear.

    The main point is that he stuck the dirty finger of truth into the eyes of his contemporaries. The jab was so uncomfortable that this painting wasn’t accepted until 200 years after his death.

    Swiftee, with the posting of the photoshopped image has jabbed the partial-birth abortion Left in the eye much like Rembrandt did–with the unforgiving finger of truth.

    Recall what we are talking about here. This is what Robin advocates–no demands–from the highest mountaintop:

    According to the American Medical Association, this procedure has four main elements. First, the cervix is dilated. Second, the fetus is positioned for a footling breech. Third, the fetus is extracted except for the head. Fourth, brain of the fetus is evacuated so that a dead but otherwise intact fetus is delivered via the vagina.

    Usually, preliminary procedures are performed over a period of two to three days, to gradually dilate the cervix using laminaria tents (sticks of seaweed which absorb fluid and swell). Sometimes drugs such as synthetic pitocin are used to induce labor.

    Once the cervix is sufficiently dilated, the doctor uses an ultrasound and forceps to grasp the fetus’ leg. The fetus is turned to a breech position, if necessary, and the doctor pulls one or both legs out of the birth canal, causing what is referred to by some people as the ‘partial birth’ of the fetus.

    The doctor subsequently extracts the rest of the fetus, usually without the aid of forceps, leaving only the head still inside the birth canal. An incision is made at the base of the skull, scissors are inserted into the incision and opened to widen the opening, and then a suction catheter is inserted into the opening. The brain is suctioned out, which causes the skull to collapse and allows the fetus to pass more easily through the birth canal.

    I find it interesting that people scream and cry “Foul!” when the truth of “partial-birth abortion” is pointed out, but are perfectly willing to look the other way or plug their ears when a “partial-birth abortion” is carried out.

    The best part is that Robin, realizing the hypocracy difficulty of placing in one hand unfettered support of “partial-birth abortion of an unviable tissue mass” in one hand and “I got to hear the little dude’s heartbeat” in the other, has created separate blogs for each issue. People do interesting thing when faced with the truth.

    And before you condemn me for supporting Swiftee’s post, I went to Power Liberal and posted my congrats and best wishes to Robin…like a bunch of us Righties did.

  36. Carmelitta:

    Here’s the problem. At no point in my posting did I even discuss the merits of abortion. FWIW, I am adamantly prolife.

    My point is that Swiftee tends to be so offensive and silly in his rhetoric that I completely discount anything he has to say, regardless of whether or not I agree with him. That’s my criteria for marginalization.

    The fact that I largely agree with his core beliefs doesn’t mean that I can’t think he’s a total buffoon in the way he expresses himself. The fact that I largely agree with his core beliefs doesn’t mean that I don’t think he’s as much of a waste of bandwidth as Avidor or any garden variety moonbat. Snark is good; see Learned Foot, Nihilist, Scrapplehawk, P. J. O’Rourke. Juvenile, offensive drivel is bad, REGARDLESS OF THE MERITS OF THE UNDERLYING ARGUMENT.

    And I’d love to “spare myself the torment of reading it”. I’m not on his site, am I?

  37. I can’t help but agree. I WANT to like what Swiftee says, and I know that I agree with his underlying point about 99% of the time. But “offensive” is a good word to describe what he does, too often.

    Which sucks, because he’s right.

  38. Hey, I’m a big fan of juvenile, offensive drivel. But I grew up reading National Lampoon, so I could be biased.

  39. When I mentioned abortion itself I wasn’t addressing you personally longtime. I should have made that more clear.
    As for Swiftee being over the top…the pregnancy was out there made public by mama – or “host” of the “tissue”, depending on how she feels about it…depending on which blog you read. If it’s open to the public, it’s open season. She had to know that. If someone wants to make a point in response to someone elses point, they have the right to do it. How dare someone be THAT outrageous? Well, Swiftee put that pic up on HIS blog. I’m sure there are people who would agree with you and there are people who have various levels of concern. The deal is….who cares. He can say it, any way he wants. It doesn’t make him an idiot because he feels strongly about something. Do you think he didn’t know that it would get some sort of negative response? It doesn’t make any sense to me that there is this huge debate over whether or not it was in good taste.
    Do you really care about Swiftee so much and what he thinks?
    If you want to publicly spank his intellect, go ahead. But I would say this much – if you put something personal on the internet, someone is not going to approve. It’s supposed to be a given -and you are expected as part of the deal to have a fairly thick skin.
    For me, his “juvenile” artistic expression gave me some comic relief over a procedure I can barely deal with emotionally. I feel alot more empathy for what I call a human, than for a mother who debates on whether or not it is one. My right.
    Does that make me an insensitive uneducated boob? You can think anything you want. I really don’t care. Everyone has their limits.

  40. While Swiftee’s action may push the line of good taste at times and be a bit rude and crude for those with more delicate sensibilities, you need a few brass-knuckled brawlers (rhetorically speaking) to get down in the trenches on your side too. I greatly respect and admire William F. Buckley for all he has done for the conservative movement, but the only way an army of WFBs could seize the field would be by boring the other side into submission.

  41. Since my preferred solution to the pro-choice/pro-life debate is generally hated by both sides, I’ve more or less been ignoring it for quite some time.

    I realize that most here are pretty solidly in the pro-life camp but can someone give a brief and fair summary of what the mainstream pro-choice’s point of view on Parital Birth abortion is?

    I have a hard time believing that any but the most extreme would support it in situations not involving the mother’s health but based on the commentary here it sounds like I’m mistaken.

    In any case, at what point in a pregnancy does partial birth abortion become the preferred procedure and under what circumstances is it seen as something that should be legal to pursue?

  42. Paul educated: “So why was it so reviled? He showed that beauty was not dependent on subject matter.”

    So that means that dead fetuses can be beautiful! Thank you, Paul, for waking us up to the beauty that’s all around us!

  43. Pingback: Shot in the Dark » Blog Archive » How Many Fetuses Fit On The Head Of A Pin?

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