Sign O The Times

Back about the time I took my first carry permit training, the late great Joel Rosenberg told the story of the time in the early 2000s, during a spate of attacks on synagogues, when a very “progressive”, DFL-leaning local congregation called him and a few other prominent gun rights activists who are also of the tribe, and asked if they might not mind – privately and discretely, mind you – bringing a little “insurance” to services with them.

Just in case.

To the best of my knowledge, they did.

It was probably 2-3 years ago I interviewed the guys from Archway Defense, who discussed how frequently places of worship of all faiths are targeted, by everyone from mentally disturbed vandals to outright hate-criminals and terrorists. The rate – for Christians and Muslims, but especially Jews, is far out of proportion with their numbers in society.

And for all the smug, self-righteous virtue signaling of some congregations, the record is pretty clear; congregations who at least quietly take self-defense into their own hands and leave temporal forgiveness to God tend to do better when someone decides to stage their final blaze of glory in their “sanctuary“.

And common sense is driving some of those congregants and congregations to ask the questions that need to be asked.

And Minnesota’s Second Amendment community has some answers.

We've been contacted by a number of folks in the past day inquiring about arming parishioners at their church, mosque,…

Posted by Minnesota Gun Owners Caucus on Sunday, April 28, 2019

Remember – if you want to deter a spree killer, the only thing that needs to be publicly recognized as “potentially armed” is your congregation, school or group’s reputation.

20 thoughts on “Sign O The Times

  1. Actually, the Poway shooting underscores the unlikelihood of average civilians stopping shooters — a highly trained and armed Border Patrol Agent missed the shooter and instead hit his vehicle. This was after the gunman fatally shot one victim, and injured several others.

  2. The border patrol agent shot as the man was running away. Ordinary civilians don’t get to shoot at fleeing felons. You’re comparing apples to oranges and proclaiming oranges irrelevant because they don’t taste like apples.

  3. I’ve seen a couple reports say the gun belonged to a parishioner, not the agent. In which case “highly trained” probably wouldn’t apply to the weapon itself.

  4. Actually, the Poway shooting underscores the unlikelihood of average civilians stopping shooters

    I see Emery has picked up his copy of the official leftist talking points. The goalposts have been moved:

    Armed citizens do nothing to deter mass shootings
    – If an armed citizen misses the shooter, it does nothing to deter the mass shooting.

    In the Klackamas Mall shooting, a CCW holder merely had to show his weapon to deter the mass shooter, who withdrew to a stairwell and killed himself.

    Why was the shooter fleeing? Did he run out of bullets and fear congregants at the synagogue throwing copies of the Torah at him? Did he encounter armed resistance and withdraw? How was the shooter, a 19-year-old, able to legally possess an AR-15 in the gun-control “utopia” of California?

    These questions and others will hopefully be answered in the coming days. Now, we could choose to wait for the facts to come out before pushing for policy changes on a national level, or we could do like “Tide Pod Evita” (h/t Mitch) and say, f**k it, let’s change the laws while emotions are running high.

  5. Reading one account of that shooting, the person who disrupted the shooter was an unarmed combat vet who charged the guy while yelling at the top of his lungs, which probably burst the shooter’s reverie. The Border Patrol agent had a gun that another parishioner gave him – and was reportedly shooting to disable the vehicle. Both men illustrate, though, the importance of confronting a shooter.

    I was an usher at our church, and while we had had some incidents (not as violent as these), I kept some “if/then” scenarios in my head. Also, while I didn’t carry, I knew who in the congregation did!

  6. If the gun was a parishioner’s, then we have–remember California does not have shall issue concealed carry–then what we have is a member of one of the “approved classes” in California freezing up and handing his gun off to someone who would use it.

    And as others have noted, my hat is off to the gentlemen who used the layout of the synagogue and psychology to break into the shooter’s OODA loop. That’s chutzpah. Todah rabah!

  7. How can these Alt-right nationalists claim to love a country when they hate most of its citizens?

  8. Which alt-right nationalist are you thinking of, Emery?
    The Poway Synagogue shooter claimed to hate Trump and hate conservatives.
    Or are you going to hide behind your mystical curtain of vagueness again?

  9. The Poway shooter was a Nazi. How can you tell? His manifesto copied ideas right out of Mein Kampf.
    More people should read Mein Kampf. More people should read Coates’ Between the World and Me. You might be surprised by the similarities.
    In Mein Kampf, Hitler argues that every person’s essential nature is racial. Everything about your identity is an accident — your wealth, your social class, your religion, your occupation — except race. You are born to a certain race, you die a member of that race. You can never not be a German, a Gaul, a Jew, etc. It is the irreducible heart of your identity.
    Since the world has finite resources, and all races need the same resources to thrive, the only legitimate conflict is war between the races for conquest. Racial conflict is the key that you use to unlock and master history and destiny. No one, neither workers nor industrialists, can be allowed to put their class interests above the interests of the race. This is how the Nazis governed, 1932-1945.
    The Jews were especially condemned by Hitler in Mein Kampf because they were an international “nation” with no borders (so were the Gypsies). The Jews, wrote Hitler, were a parasitic nation. The nation of Jewdom thrived by infecting real nations and gaining control of their resources to suit their own ends.
    This is standard national socialism.
    Ask yourself which political party in the United States believes that your race is the irreducible core of your identity. That would be white supremacists and Democrats.
    There is a reason why the party of segregation and white supremacy so easily morphed into the party of Bernie Sanders.

  10. You know, there are La Raza types who claim the US is their racial territory while they hate most of the people who live within it. I know first hand that there are Hawaiians who claim to love Hawaii and yet hate most of the people who live here. Not that hard to figure out, if you aren’t a hack.

  11. There are people who repeat the stupidest memes on Facebook. I have a friend, a feminist, who posted, at Christmas time, a bunch of ads telling women how to look their best, and make their house look its best, during the holiday season, along with some mocking remarks. I suppose the point was that women endure this kind of social pressure while men do not.
    Usually I let her crazy stuff slide but this time I replied that whatever the gals had to do, it was better than freezing your ass off in a foxhole in the Ardennes while Nazis tried to kill you. She upvoted my reply, so I guess she has some self awareness.

  12. Wasn’t it Joel who advised his synagogue to take down signs banning guns? Because they really meant “Unarmed Jews Inside.”

  13. Wherever you find a nation where the local population has been displaced, or the population inflated by colonizers (like Tibet) you will find nationalists who hate the majority of the population. You don’t to be a genius to know that. Kind of dim not to know that, actually.
    If you are a white nationalist, you should move to Australia. It’s population is 90% European ancestry. Funny that they can keep that white, when they have some of the most densely populated Asian countries a short boat ride away. Shouldn’t it be impossible? Also, how come their economy isn’t crippled by their stubborn refusal to “embrace diversity”?

  14. I should mention that Palestinian nationalists are a minority in Israel, and hate the majority of its population. Really, this is kid stuff.

  15. Next year, the under-18 population in the US will be majority non-white.

    By 2045, the entire country is projected to become a majority minority.

  16. If you are a white nationalist, you should move to Australia. It’s population is 90% European ancestry. Funny that they can keep that white, when they have some of the most densely populated Asian countries a short boat ride away. Shouldn’t it be impossible? Also, how come their economy isn’t crippled by their stubborn refusal to “embrace diversity”?

    The first question that comes to my mind is “Why aren’t people of other ethnicities moving to Australia?”

    What is keeping them out? Is something about Australia so unpleasant that they are staying away? Or is something inside Australia preventing them from moving/immigrating (like tight immigration laws/limits)?

  17. Bill C – I don’t know if it’s still the case, or ever was, but back in the early 80s an acquaintance was trying to emigrate to Australia, and told me you had to either have a professional skill the country needed, or a job already lined up before you could come in.

  18. Regarding Oz, I’m guessing the salties, snakes, and sharks help keep immigration on the up & up.

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.