My Dad…
By Mitch Berg
…could turn around and yell at my sister and brother to quit bickering and shaddap.
President Obama, on the other hand…
Shaking off a summer of setbacks, President Barack Obama summoned Congress to enact sweeping health care legislation Wednesday night, declaring the “time for bickering is over”
…no. By your leave, your highness, our represenatives will continue to represent the majority of this nation that has serious questions – you might call it “bickering”, but then you’re not my Dad – about your health insurance “plan”.
That is all.
September 10th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Like the majority of Americans who supported John McCain and the Republicans last November? I think the real problem is that you far-right types know how to shout, but don’t know how to count. Last night’s speech was a signal that Obama’s going to get something done that’s acceptable to the majority of Americans and will be supported by his Congressional majority.
September 10th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
I think the real problem is that you far-right types know how to shout, but don’t know how to count.
As opposed to you far-left types, who can neither read nor count.
September 10th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
You forget, Mitch, that Angryclown is a centrist. Far, far to the left of you and the far-right Mitchketeers, of course. But right in the center of normal, mainstream America.
September 10th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
And by the same token, you forget that Scarlett Johannsen and Diane Neal got into a knife fight over me.
September 10th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
angryclown is not a centrist, he is a woolgathering yarn spinner.
September 10th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
AC’s about as “centrist” as the fulcrum of a teeter-totter balancing Vern Troyer and Roseanne.
September 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Clownie a centrist. That is pretty damn funny. Oh wait, Clownie has never espoused a single, actual principle in four years here.
I guess Clownie’s idea of “centrist” is “unprincipled”.
September 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
AC, a centrist is someone who is ashamed to admit what they really are.
September 10th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I am a Classical Liberal. 8)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Surely, with the penetrating insight and BS-detector he possesses, Angryclown has already seen the weakness in the argument that eliminating waste in the Medicaid/Medicare system (which, for some reason, hasn’t already been done) will generate enough savings to pay for covering more people and improving care overall. Moving on, then, perhaps he will list the things that the government has gotten involved in that have ever become more efficient and haven’t resulted in a bloated bureaucracy, or explain why people who don’t want the government involved in deciding whether or not they can have an abortion will now embrace bringing the government into every health decision they make (or are allowed to make).
Make a case, AC, for why the majority of people should have the confidence in Pres. Obama and his backers to reject their common sense.
September 10th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
Night Rider challenged: “Surely, with the penetrating insight and BS-detector he possesses, Angryclown has already seen the weakness in the argument that eliminating waste in the Medicaid/Medicare system (which, for some reason, hasn’t already been done) will generate enough savings to pay for covering more people and improving care overall.”
Well duh.
“Moving on, then, perhaps he will list the things that the government has gotten involved in that have ever become more efficient”
Food and Drug Administration
National Transportation Safety Board
United States Post Office
U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps
The Manhattan Project
The Erie Canal
U.C. Berkeley, University of Virginia, University of Michigan
D-Day
Apollo 11
Berlin Airlift
Interstate Highway System
Air Traffic Control
How many you want?
September 10th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
“…become ever more efficient.”
We really haven’t needed to go back and rescue the French in the past couple of years, much less made any progress on moon landings.
You’re going to need to start again, Clown. (story of your life)
September 10th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
AC, I’ll have you note that the majority of those things you cite were temporary items. In the long run, the gov’t has strangled them.
Apollo 11 — very nice. Now look at what NASA is. Having been inside NASA and seen the difference I can say that the Civil Service has killed NASA. Nearly all the innovative and good stuff is done by contractors like JPL.
The highway system? Good when it was built. Now? Have you seen how efficient it is now to get anything done to it?
The Manhattan Project, D-Day? Again, short term war time projects.
The armed forces? You’re claiming those are EFFICIENT? Turn in your liberal card, dude, they’ll skin you for that. And nobody inside them will tell you they’re efficient.
The FDA? Bwahaha! You must be joking! A necessary function, but again terribly inefficient.
Air Traffic Control? You mean the same agency that’s wasted $60B trying to build new computers and failed so badly that they sent us scrounging among old boards at IBM trying to find enough spare parts so that they could keep those 60s vintage mainframes running?
September 10th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
No, Clown – Night said more efficient.
Clearly a miscommunication here:
Food and Drug Administration – uses an arthritic, paralyzing process that slows drug testing to a crawl – and has only gotten worse.
National Transportation Safety Board – You have metrics showing *improved* efficiency somewhere?
United States Post Office – Falls further and further behind every year, despite constant rate increases; stuck in a market that may be completely obsolete, which is the very definition of inefficiency. And getting worse.
U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps – An odd example; all of them practice that most wasteful of human activities, war. Indeed, there’s a case to be made (Edwin Luttwak spelled it out well) that market efficiency is actually counterproductive to militaries, so even if true it’d be paradoxically a misplaced ideal for the military.
The Manhattan Project – one of the most intensely wasteful programs in all of history, its eventual success notwithstanding. It was a wartime “crash” program; like all such, the program traded money and efficiency for speed. Understandable under the circumstances – but an incredibly bad example of the efficiency of government.
The Erie Canal – Arguably true, and proof that government programs have been becoming steadily less efficient and effective since the time of (searches memory) James Monroe administration.
U.C. Berkeley, University of Virginia, University of Michigan – Please provide the metrics used to determine the “efficiency” of universities.
D-Day – Let’s not confuse either “moral rightness” or “success” with “efficiency”. D-Day was morally right, and it succeeded. But like anything involved with war, it wasn’t remotely “efficient”. I’m trying to picture an “efficient” D-Day; perhaps substituting commercial ferries for Higgins Boats and LSTs?
Apollo 11 – Again – successful does not mean efficient. The moon program spent staggering amounts of money to achieve a fairly arbitrary goal (“be on the moon by 1970”).
Berlin Airlift – Again – morally right, very successful – and completely inefficient. Supplying a major city by air? Can you imagine if the government had to keep Brooklyn alive by shipping every gallon of gas and every Big Mac into town by air? Especially given what union cargo handlers earn at Kennedy?
Interstate Highway System – Metrics, my good fellow. Metrics.
Air Traffic Control – Sorry – not a good example of government efficiency. They’ve been trying to re-vamp their control systems for decades; the development effort, being a typical government effort, is an epic clusterfarg (and yes, I DO know IT development).
Sorry, Clown. You list fanned more times than the Mets did on the road this year.
September 10th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
As usual you fall back on conservative cant. Where exactly are your metrics, Dr. Berg? Do tell about those wonderfully efficient private-sector initiatives that, before the creation of their government alternative, kept drugs safe, permitted people to drive from one end of the continent to the other, ensured air safety. And you think Blackwater and Halliburton are more efficient than the military? I’m sure you must have some metrics in your hip pocket for those.
September 10th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
And now you change the subject!
We all know – and most of us accept, to some degree, even as we call for constant vigilance – that there are things that government just plain does. But does it do them efficiently, whether or not there is a private-sector alternative (FedEx and Brown eat USPS’ lunch), or no practical one (FDA) or no desirable or morally able one (World War II)?
Of course not.
Leaving aside, of course, the many cases from your list where there was a better, private alternative, of course…
September 10th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Just wondering, was the Transcontinental Railroad a government project? It seems the private sector did a pretty good job connecting the East and West coasts.
It is pretty comical, having Clownie called on his lack of metrics (or proof) and having him throw it back. Clownie is to evidence as Dr. Seuss is to Shakespeare.
September 10th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
“FedEx and Brown eat USPS’ lunch.”
Wow, they’ll deliver a letter for 44 cents? Sign me up!
“Leaving aside, of course, the many cases from your list where there was a better, private alternative, of course…”
So you assert.
September 10th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
It’s a point of pride, Kerm. Angryclown will never be lured into actually providing data for you capering monkeys. You wouldn’t know what to do with it. Angryclown will leave it to Dog Bone to pretend you’re reasonable adults.
September 10th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
they’ll deliver a letter for 44 cents? Sign me up!
Well, to be fair, they won’t deliver a letter for 44 cents when it really costs closer to a buck to do the job.
USPS is like most public transit; it operates at a loss because someone, somewhere, considers it the right thing to do.
September 10th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Betty McCallum said today: BETTYPAC, U.S. Rep. Betty McCollum’s political action committee, is donating $1,000 to the Democratic opponent of the South Carolina congressman who shouted “You lie” to President Obama during Wednesday’s address to Congress.
The Minnesota Democrat, taking aim at instantly-famous Republican Joe Wilson, said his outburst “crossed a line of protocol and decency that may be acceptable for angry ‘tea baggers’ at a rally, but is completely unacceptable for a member of Congress.”
A) Betty was in the audience for President Bush’s 2005 State of the Union address when most of the Democrats boo’d him.
B) Betty doesn’t come across as particulary smart. Do you think she knows what “tea bagging” is. Imagine if Congresswoman Bachmann would say “taking it up the ass” in a statement.
September 10th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
To be fair, the government is good at throwing a lot of money at a problem (invasions, creating atom bombs) that can be judged a success, but as others pointed out these were short-term projects where mass was critical, but not the best model for an ongoing activity.
I’m really interested, however, in AC’s response to my last point about why people should have any confidence that the government can handle this. What is the track record (and not just for this administration, but historically)?
Is it kooky to be worried that the people that brought you the DMV will be in charge of your healthcare? While I understand that welfare and social security (which will crash long before I ever see it) checks arrive on a timely basis, people have had plenty of real-life experience with government entities. I think that’s why the more people think about this nebulous proposal the less they like it, and that number is now a majority if you believe the polls. Wingnuts all?
September 10th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
“Is it kooky to be worried that the people that brought you the DMV will be in charge of your healthcare?”
Depends. You talking about the Minnesota DMV or the New York DMV? In any case, Angryclown is confident the Obama proposal will not put either St. Paul or Albany in charge of health care.
You forget, Night Rider, that people also have plenty of real-life experience with insurance company bureaucracy and the fear that an uninsured medical crisis frequently leads to personal bankruptcy.
September 10th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
You forget, clown, that Obama care is supported by less than half of the voters.
Guess they fear insurance companies and bankruptcy less than they fear putting your guys in charge of health care.
September 10th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Couple thins there, Terry. One, it very much depends how you slice the poll questions. Two, what matters is whether Obamacare is supported by more than half of Congress.
September 10th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Angryclown will never be lured into actually providing data for you capering monkeys
Or, more accurately, Angryclown is incapable of actually providing data for you capering monkeys.
Know your limitations.
September 10th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
The basic problem is that AC considers something efficient when any result occurs.
For example, under his criterion the USPS is efficient because it can deliver a letter for $0.44 as long as you ignore the subsidies that junk mail provides (and the decline in junk mail is one of the reasons the USPS is going broke).
Most folks look to see if the cost of the service is reasonable or can be done for less elsewhere. By those criteria there are few really efficient government agencies. About the only one I can think of is DARPA simply because they operate outside the standard government rules with a very small administration of dedicated folks. I’m shocked that they’ve managed to buck the bureaucracy as long as they have, but they’re the only government agency I consider efficient and they’ve been doing good work for more than 20 years now.
You talking about the Minnesota DMV or the New York DMV?
Having experienced both, I’m hoping its the MnDMV and not the NYDMV I have to deal with. I can see it now, the New York Department of Medical Validation would have you sending back that inflamed appendix when you’re done with it, just like they make you do with old plates.
In any case, Angryclown is confident the Obama proposal will not put either St. Paul or Albany in charge of health care.
You’re right. He’ll put the folks too dumb and too hidebound to make it in the FAA in charge of health care. Heaven help us all!
(Look to see if I still have the name of that Canadian company that tried to hire me last year…)
Two, what matters is whether Obamacare is supported by more than half of Congress.
You’re right, it probably is. The question is whether a fair number of those Congresscritters are willing to put their seats in jeopardy over the question. I’m shocked that the bill still leaves cuts in Medicare when seniors are the most dedicated voters and most likely to punish anybody who votes to cut their “entitlements.”
September 11th, 2009 at 12:20 am
Angry Clown is kind of emblematic of the Left, isn’t he?
It’s not about right or wrong, or even what is best is the best politics. It’s all about power. Liberals don’t think that government is what self-governing people do, it’s a means to achieve a goal. Liberal fascism, indeed.
September 11th, 2009 at 6:43 am
Tell me about it after you shout down your congressman why don’tcha Terry. Maybe you can bus in a bunch of Republican political staffers to help, eh?
September 11th, 2009 at 9:36 am
And so angryclown turns the page in the big book of “Repeating Things Makes Them True”.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Clownies act never gets old. Wait…yes it does. He may need to go back to ACORN for some fresh material. Maybe Clownie can bus in a bunch of SEIU thugs to help, eh?
September 11th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Clown has to step lightly around unions; the six Teamsters who came to his place out on Long Island to fix his garage door might pee behind his fridge otherwise.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:17 am
Two, what matters is whether Obamacare is supported by more than half of Congress.
WHo have a career interest in paying some attention to the 52%-and-growing share of “opposed”s out there.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:27 am
You misstate or misperceive the reality, Mitch. The sparse poll data you’ve presented are misleading. Few people want “socialized healthcare.” Many want to see universal access to insurance, a ban on denying coverage for preexisting conditions, and so on. There’s plenty of agreement for aspects of the Obama plan. Public opinion, like the specifics of the bill, are in flux. It’s why insurance companies and their jammy-clad water carriers in the blogosphere are working so hard to derail it.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:47 am
If you wanted McCain’s health care reform plan, you should have voted for McCain, Angry Clown.
September 11th, 2009 at 10:51 am
angryclown: Insurance companies are bad, and people against this “reform” are their agents.
Is ‘repeating talking points’ really the new funny? I’m thinking “no”.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:07 am
AC, how did that Cash for Clunkers thing work out? And the Shamulous? Both are prime examples of CURRENT administration modus operandi.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:16 am
There’s plenty of agreement for aspects of the Obama plan.
True enough. We all want people to get health care. What we are alarmed about is the $1 trillion this thing will inevitably cost with government running it. Obama has quadrupled the federal deficit in just 8 months. He is intentionally vague about specifics because he knows he has very little control over the final product.
Obama let the Appolo Project write his “stimulus” bill. He will let special interests pork up a health care reform bill, too. The “jammy-clad water carriers in the blogosphere” don’t trust Obama because he is a proven liar doing a lot of water carrying himself.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Fortunately, Kerm, your rabid right-wing hatred of the president isn’t shared by normal Americans.
September 11th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Hey AssClown, Omaha Beach was only efficient in the quick slaughter of American soldiers. It was successful but not efficient in meeting its goal.
When will we see a hint of skepticism or criticism toward Obama from the AssClown?
September 11th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
New idea? No. Cogent point? No. Well-written take on an issue of the day? No.
You are becoming tiresome, Angry Clown.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Proving Obama is a liar = “rabid right-wing hatred of the president”.
Check. Tiresome and a self-parody.
September 11th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Well, it’s hard to blame AC. I sure the hell wouldn’t want to defend Obama. That would be tiresome. It’s a lot easier (and more intellectually honest, frankly) to do what Clown does here — throw turds in the punchbowl.