I’ve been grappling with a theological conundrum. Perhaps you can help me.
Is God so omnipotent that he could invent a phrase so stupid that even Fast Eddie Schultz wouldn’t say it?
Liberal radio talk show host says right-wing talkers and conservatives want to see Obama “get shot.”
I’m a person of faith, but if God’s limits could possibly be tested, this is it.
Because if “Stupid” were a church and a theology, Schultz would be its doctinally-infallible pope.
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Well,
Let’s see, Schultz said that Obama was going to have Death Panels..
No, wait, that was your annointed one, Sarah Palin, the woman who was everything right and everything needed – a person who should be one heartbeat (of a 72 year old man no less) away from the Presidency.
Schultz is a radio host, an entertainer – he may say stupid things frequently, like that the NAACP should train it’s members to rob banks, and that slavery wasn’t all bad, because at least the streets were safer at night..
No, wait, that was Rush Limbaugh..
Mitch, generally, faith is something you’ve asked be held fairly sacrosanct – and I understand you are kidding here, but you create a blury line when you start doing this kind of stuff a line you would like crossed by someone else.
So, tongue-in-cheek- Schultz could only be Pope after Pope Palin dies and if Sr. Cardinal Limbaugh allowed his candidacy.
Death Panels..
Pen, you’ve worked in healthcare. Explain to the layperson how “case management” works. I could do it, but I’d love to hear your take on it…
…and then explain how, when controlled by government, it would be different than a “death panel”.
No, I’ve met Ed Schultz. Say what you will about people you disagree with, but Schultz is an aggressively stupid person.
I see that they’ve removed the non-existent “death panel” language from the senate bill.
Thank you, Sarah Palin.
That’s right!
How ’bout that, Pen?
It’s utterly bizarre. Obviously, assassination is a threat to any occupant of the Oval Office (has there been a President in the past century who wasn’t the target of a serious assassination threat?); that it could happen to this guy is a matter that comes up in discussions every now and then.
I’ve quite literally never heard anybody I’ve ever talked with suggesting that an Obama assassination would be other than a horrible thing. Me, I can’t think of anything at all that would be good about it — I don’t even mean “good on balance” but would have anything whatsoever to recommend it.
Millions of Americans feeling (correctly) that their choice of President had been taken away by an assassin’s bullet; a father stolen from his children and a husband from his wife; friends grieved; a long slip down a slippery slope to a nation where leadership is determined by force of arms and not the ballot; quite possibly riots and all sort of other horrors . . . and Joe Biden in the Oval Office and Nancy Pelosi in the batter’s box.
Like I said: nothing whatsoever to recommend it.
No, wait, that was Rush Limbaugh..
I really doubt it, Peev. But plwase, feel free to cite the quotes with context and dates for us. Otherwise you’re just a Mini-Schultz. Very mini.
I really doubt it, Peev. But plwase, feel free to cite the quotes with context and dates for us. Otherwise you’re just a Mini-Schultz. Very mini.
Wait for it, Kerm. In about two hours you might get a link to a CBS News article about Chinese salvage fisheries.
Here we go!!
Audio of Peev’s response.
Peeve never responds to questions and requests.
Small mind, big mouth.
Palin’s ‘death panel’ position, just like her flip flop on the bridge to nowhere that she supported….
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/proclamations.php?id=1094
A particularly interesting position in view of the federal government having to step in to straighten out the Alaska run medicare debacle that resulted in vulnerable seniors dying, during Palin’s term.
“Small mind, big mouth. ”
after the mouth everything about peev is small..
and peev I too know “exactly” how Case Management works and I would love to hear how it would work when run by the government, please, enlighten us.
Palin’s reponse regarding the “flip flop” that DG identifies:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=116979483434&ref=nf
Specifically,
Last year, I issued a proclamation for “Healthcare Decisions Day.” [6] The proclamation sought to increase the public’s knowledge about creating living wills and establishing powers of attorney. There was no incentive to choose one option over another. There was certainly no financial incentive for physicians to push anything. In fact, the proclamation explicitly called on medical professionals and lawyers “to volunteer their time and efforts” to provide information to the public.
Comparing the “Healthcare Decisions Day” proclamation to Section 1233 of HR 3200 is ridiculous. The two are like apples and oranges. The attempt to link the two shows how desperate the proponents of nationalized health care are to shift the debate away from the disturbing details of their bill.
Your mileage may vary.
So Dog Gone slanders Palin again.
The incident Dog Gone refers to — the suspension of medicare funds for an Alaska managed at-home care program — is gone into at length in this post at Penigma’s blog: https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6337568240689378702&postID=6985713425294113901&pli=1
Dog Gone deploys all the usual lefty smear tactics — outright statements of falsehood, ‘fudging’ the facts when they don’t suit the argument, dark hints at a vast conspiracy.
It’s paranoid lunacy, which, I am sorry to say, is typical of liberal political commentary these days.
The failure of the Alaska program was driven by out of control spending and poor management by its director that preceded Palin’s inauguration. Though these problems plague state-directed health care across the country, by liberal lights, the poor performance of the Alaska program isn’t meant to reflect the problems of government-run health care, but Sarah Palin’s iniquity.
There’s no logical inconsistency between a governor arguing through an official proclamation that people should consider getting medical directives and such done and having grave concerns about the implications of case management strategies on individuals in a sole-source government health plan.
Oh, and following up on MoN’s comment from earlier:
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/finance-committee-to-drop-end-of-life-provision-2009-08-13.html
Money graf:
“On the Finance Committee, we are working very hard to avoid unintended consequences by methodically working through the complexities of all of these issues and policy options,” Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said in a statement. “We dropped end-of-life provisions from consideration entirely because of the way they could be misinterpreted and implemented incorrectly.”
N.b.: Grassley didn’t say that Palin misintrepreted the end of life provisions. And in no event would she, as a private citizen, be involved in how they are implemented.
Again, your mileage may vary.
“medical professionals and lawyers “to volunteer their time and efforts” to provide information to the public.”
Why are you opposed to that, DG?
“shows how desperate the proponents of nationalized health care are to shift the debate away from the disturbing details of their bill.”
Bingo!
Peev, we are still waiting for you to enlighten us on how Case Management works. 8)
Any sane and rational person doesn’t even want to consider Obama getting shot, especially on the right. Because then Joe “foot in mouth Biden” assumes the presidency and God only knows who he’d appoint to VP (he can appoint ANYONE, repeat ANYONE to the post). And here’s a scary thought for you all, lets say there is a devestating terrorist attack that takes out the first 3 people in the line of secession (Obama, Biden and Pelosi) you know who gets to serve out the term? Robert “KKK” Byrd because he’s 3rd or 4th (depending on how you want to look at it) in the line as President Pro-Tempe of the Senate. Talk about scary. Let’s just vote these people out and leave all the loon talk to the loons.
I am finding the ‘deathers’ position confusing.
We have Palin afraid of death squads, who a year ago signed a proclamation encouraging the very kind of end of life services that she now criticizes. http://www.gov.state.ak.us/proclamations.php?id=1094
We have Newt Gingrich objecting to community standards and end of life planning and the health care reforms – although, I’m not sure what that means because I have not read every page of the health care reform (house bill) but so far, there seems to be no mention of community standards. I’m not sure why it is exactly that Newt doesn’t think communities can be trusted to set standards for themselves; he seems to think that Republicans should set them for everybody though. But then, back on July 2, he contradicts all of that as well – in some detail: http://www.news.washingtonpost.com/healthcarex/panelists/2009.07/right-gingrich.
Then we have Rush Limbaugh claiming that healthcare reform will snow old people into oblivion. But then he has done voice overs for Legalzoom.com and promoting August as National Will month. Of the three, I can appreciate that just because someone pays him for the use of his vocal services should not automatically guarantee he really believes in anything. SO if any of the three have a valid basis excusing and explaining the apparent contradiction, this would be the one of the three.
Perhaps Mitch would care to address personal convictions, and the voice over business, since he has experience with it?
KR wrote:
““medical professionals and lawyers “to volunteer their time and efforts” to provide information to the public.”
Why are you opposed to that, DG? ”
I am not opposed to it at all. However relying on volunteers to do what should reasonably be paid work seems a bit hit or miss to accomodate larger numbers of population, and less than fair to those medical and legal professionals to expect them to do all that is needed. (I believe both you and I know of at least one legal professional who does this kind of volunteering KR.)
My reading of the proposed house bill on health care was that it intended to provide a structure where people at an early enough stage in life were offered ways to make decisions for themselves, to take charge of their lives rather than the government doing so. This seems to me a valid service meriting payment. Newt Gingrich addresses why it is also a health savings….where he is in favor of it, and not opposing it. see above
You are missing the mark completely Dog Gone.
There is nothing wrong with an individual planning for the end of his or her life when they become old and decrepit.
Making this planning with a third party in the room, or at their instigation, is creepy, especially if they have a financial stake in the outcome.
And you know what? I don’t care what Gingrich or Palin has to say on the matter, no matter how much you mischaracterise what they say.
DG,
The Palin and Gingrich examples are both of individual, voluntary planning. This is by definition utterly unlike government-managed care.
As to Limbaugh’s work for Legalzoom – again, making out a personal legal care order is a voluntary personal act.
I’m not sure where you’re seeing any kind of parallel.
Mitch said,
The Palin and Gingrich examples are both of individual, voluntary planning. This is by definition utterly unlike government-managed care.
And that is the whole point, DG. Voluntary. No whiff of government involvement. No one is against living wills any other such arrangements so long as they are individual and voluntary.
And again, I call your attention to Grassley’s comments. His concern isn’t whether private citizen Palin understands the intent of the bill or not. His concern is ensuring that the bureaucrats who would administer any programs established under the bill understand the intent. And that’s where the concern belongs. If the provisions were clear and understandable, there would have been no need for Grassley to intervene.
One day I hope Angryclown is on Mr. D’s Death Panel. Cause he’ll be fucked.
One day I hope Yosarrian, K-Rod and Terry are on Clownie’s death panel.
Karma is a bitch.
Nah, those guys would never work for the big evil guvmint, Kerm. They’re patriots! You know, the kind of guys who root against the American government.
We all know how much the clown backed the American government between 2000 & 2006. He believes that its president was fraudulently ‘selected, not elected’ in 2000 and that this president than launched a bogus war against a harmless grandfather who spent most of his teaching kids to fly kites.
This “I’m more patriotic than you” shtick don’t work for Angry Clown. Too much water under the bridge for that. I bet with a little googling I can find the patriotic Mr. Clown’s comment that the our powerful, loyal, and trustworthy armed forces are, in fact, manned by mentally deficient cannon fodder.
Clown should hope that I am on his ‘Death Board”, because I believe that individual life has an ‘off the balance sheet” value. I would give him a pass.
Though I would make sure the TV in his room at the nursing home showed an endless loop of episodes of Maude.
All the ones WITHOUT Adrienne Barbeau.
I don’t know why the lefties have vested so much in this ‘death panel’ nonsense. The provision was likely put in the bill at the request of some doctor-training company that wanted to make money off of it. As hyperbolic as Palin’s statement about a ‘death panel’ was, it at least made sense.
What doesn’t make sense is the notion that these counseling sessions won’t result a patient signing a DNR order that they otherwise would not have signed, and yet this will reduce costs in the last weeks of care, and that it will also not have a negative impact on the ‘average life span’ measure that we are assured is the standard way of measuring the effectiveness of a health care delivery system.
One day I hope Angryclown is on Mr. D’s Death Panel. Cause he’ll be fucked.
Not unless you buy me a drink first. But remember the words of Jello Biafra, Clown — you’ll be the first to go.
Terry, once you start thinking Palin has something going on other than a hot, but aging, bod, you’re lost. People can sign DNR’s if they like. In fact I hope all you Mitchketeers do. Angryclown’s head will be kept alive, floating in a jar, while you kooks are all rotting 6 feet under. But there was nothing remotely mandatory about the counseling. The “lefties” have so much vested in the death panel nonsense cause it shows what a bunch of easily manipulated boobs you wingnuts are. Go shout yourselves hoarse at town meetings, teabag parties, whatever. The more the better. It just exposes you for the hysterical wackjobs you really are.
Angry Clown, your head is already floating in a bottle.
Let me turn it around towards the TV. . . ah! There! Now let me see what’s on the American Life channel . . . great! Four hours of Combat! followed by four hours of Land of the Giants! Pretty much any Irwin Alan production will do for you. Except Lost in Space. After those remarks about Palin I’m afraid the sight of June Lockhart in a silver lame jumpsuit might be too ‘exciting’ for you. Goodness! Why does Sarah — I mean, June, have to wear such tight clothing anyway?
Settle yourself in, clown-head-in-a-jar. I’m going to fix up some microwave popcorn. Too bad a head-in-a-jar can’t eat popcorn. Say, would you like me to throw a goldfish in there with you? For company?
I will if you promise not to snap at it.
http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/30971.jpg
Clownie’d hit that.
http://www.hightechscience.org/June_Lockhart_1b.JPG
Terry is the Dr. Smith of SitD.
OK, a goldfish it is. But no more Malibu Barbie! I’m tired of picking shredded bits of bikini out of your bubbler.
angryclown said:
“The “lefties” have so much vested in the death panel nonsense cause it shows what a bunch of easily manipulated boobs you wingnuts are.”
Just a few years ago, angryclown was saying the same thing about his “lefties”, so much so that they needed some clown to defend them.
I delayed answering until I had time to go back and examined the language in previous bills, including the medicare act of 2003, which had similar end of life care and living will, etc. provisions. This is not a new topic of interest to me, I have been familiar with the language relating to legislation relating to end of life issues for more than two decades.
I encourage you all to read them; it is easy enough to access the actual language of legislation online, federal and state.
The language hadn’t changed from those REPUBLICAN / CONSERVATIVE sponsored legislation, the substance of what is proposed is not substantially different other than expanding the services to reach more people. The idea that this constitutes some kind of death panel is ludicrous, the idea that it represents a government employee ‘in the room’ pressuring someone to end life early for cost reasons. The only proposal is to expand the existing provisions that provide advice to making living wills, etc. BY trained medical and legal personnel. Nothing is involuntary.
Sheesh, does anyone think for a heartbeat that something coercive would survive a constitutional challege? Or that anyone would seriously propose such measures? It’s an implausible assertion.
Terry, under Palin’s administration, there were no measures taken to reduce or control the backlog of medicare cases that resulted in some individuals apparently dying while waiting. Nor were there the expected follow up fatality reviews to determine the relationship between the deaths that occurred and the problems with medicare. The intervention in Alaska, at the request of doctors whose patients were involved, and by legal actions, is fairly unprecedented. Palin did nothing to correct or monitor any of that effectively, the situation worsened significantly on her watch.
The feds and the new governor are making significant changes to the Alaska medicare / medicaid program that DOES manage costs, and DOES NOT continue the problems that existed under Palin’s administration. It was not rocket science to correct those problems.
THAT is the difference between competent adminstration and incompetent and indifferent administration.
The idea that this constitutes some kind of death panel is ludicrous, the idea that it represents a government employee ‘in the room’ pressuring someone to end life early for cost reasons.
DG, that’d be correct, if:
a) Managed Care worked the way it’s advertised, and
b) resources remain relatively ample to the task – as they are in most managed-care plans and, for that matter, Medicare.
But Managed Care does leave you with situations where a doctor will say “this person needs a kidney transplant”, and the case manager will respond “for a 78 year old person, dialysis and palliative care gives you all the bang our buck is going to go for”. And that is that. Today.
And when everyone is being funneled into the same system? When the resources are being stretched to cover all of society, and stretched still further by the inevitable exodus of doctors from Primary and specialty care fields?
Which are, by the way, inevitable in a single-payer system? Which have happened in every nation that’s adopted single-payer health insurance?
You may not like the term “death panel”, but at some point, a bureaucrat – public or private – with a mortality chart and a cost-per-lifespan calculator is waiting. Under the current system, the patient has options. If Obama gets is way, they eventually will not.
The only proposal is to expand the existing provisions that provide advice to making living wills, etc. BY trained medical and legal personnel. Nothing is involuntary.
You mean, the stuff you razzed Palin for proclaiming in favor of last week?
I get so confused….
What’s scarier, Sarah Palin using the term “Death Panel” or the President of the United States telling diabetic patients that their doctor’s want to amputate their feet to raise a little spending money.
or Obama suggesting a pain pill instead of a pacemaker.
Dog Gone, Please refrain from linking Palin to deaths under a program she adminsistered until you have something that, well, links Palin to actual deaths under a program she administered.
Dog Gone, Please refrain from linking Palin to deaths under a program she administered until you have something that, well, links Palin to actual deaths under a program she administered.
Sorry for the repeat 🙂
I have this cheap-ass wireless logitech keyboard with a crappy key action, but it works with my KVM switch so I can move between my XP Lenovo R61 and my linux Thinkpad T40 & use the same display/keyboard/mouse. The cheap-ass Logitech keyboard doesn’t just have bouncy keys, the keys are black with barely legible white-on-black lettering. I have a lenovo wireless keyboard with much better touch & feel but it don’t work with the KVM switch.
@@#$%^&*