Joe Doakes from Como Park emails:
Discussed Mall of America protest with a co-worker. What’s the point. To raise awareness. Of what? That police are killing Black people. Why do I care? You don’t care? Not really, I’m a law-abiding White citizen so I’m in no danger; besides, how does disrupting my Christmas shopping make me care about your pet peeve? It’s not a pet peeve, it’s an important civil rights issue that every American should care about. Oh, so now it’s not raising awareness, now it’s preaching: I can’t simply be aware of your issue, you intend to force me to agree by holding my grandkids’ Christmas presents hostage. That’s not persuasion, that’s coercion, and I resent it.
Taking people like my co-worker at their word that the protesters are acting in good faith, it occurs to me the MoM protestors are using the Underpants Gnomes Theory of Effecting Social Change.
1. Enrage people who are trying to finish their Christmas shopping by protesting at the Mall
2. ?
3. Enraged Christmas Shoppers help protestors achieve the Social Change the protestors desire.The protestors haven’t quite figured out Step 2 yet, but they’re certain Step 3 will result. So they blithely launch into Step 1 assuming it’ll all work out in the end. It won’t: enraged Christmas shoppers will actively hate the protesters and all they stand for, will call the cops to have them arrested, and will scoff at hand-wringing newspaper editorials in the Strib and when jail time is imposed, will nod and say “Damned right.”
Kind of like the Westboro Baptist Church chanting “God Hates Fags” at military funerals, to protest the legality of homosexuality in America. Step 1 has been achieved, we all know there’s a controversy. And we all know what you want as Step 3 – outlaw buggery. But you haven’t worked out the details of Step 2 so you haven’t convinced the rest of us to act in your favor. Instead, we form parties of flag-waving motorcycle riders to drown you out. And people who might otherwise have been inclined to discuss the subject reasonably, look at the motorcyclists and say “Damned right.”
Of course, if the protesters are not acting in good faith; if the protesters are professional agitators or paid union hacks or general thugs, the above analysis does not apply.
Joe Doakes
We live in a place who’s dominant political cultural values “sending messages” over “convincing people”.
My take on this one is that sit-ins are justified when you are protesting an entity that has done you wrong, like the classic example of the diner that won’t serve black people in the Jim Crow South. In this case, they were hoping that by harming an entity that had done them no wrong (and for that matter employs a large number of black people), that the rest of us would ignore the law’s prohibitions on double jeopardy, violating the privacy of grand jury deliberations, and ex post facto laws.
It seems to me that they’re going to do better looking at the records of the prosecutors involved, and see if there is evidence that there is a “blue wall of silence” to prevent prosecution of officers being implemented by those prosecutors. Of course, that would probably entail the lawyers and detectives they hire telling them “sorry, you don’t have a case–if the case were to be made, the DOJ would have made it already.” Suffice it to say that I would be very surprised if Eric Holder would hold back from that sort of thing.
OTTER: “I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture.”
Big Left found “Animal House” as instructional as I found it entertaining?
Big Left is always attempting to shock and make uncomfortable the white bourgeois – as their mindset reflects an odd 18th century Euro-notion of classism. No better place than the MOA in their minds.
Funny thing – in my semi-annual visit to the MOA, I see it as the gathering place for the lowest common denominator among the ‘classes’. It is, from a racial standpoint, likely the most diverse place West of Milwaukee. You want to shock white folk? Protest at an MPR membership outing or an exhibition at the Walker.
Question their theory and they fall into chanting “Black lives matter”. IOW, shut up.
I heard this morning that prosecutors are now building cases against the organizers, including estimates of lost revenue for the MOA businesses. While I doubt they’ll be able to get much in the way of restitution, I highly doubt the organizers have deep pockets, I say throw the book at them. Not surprising, a local law professor that the lesser station keeps inviting back, thinks the prosecutors are going too far. Guess she forgot that yesterday she said if you’re going to participate in Civil Disobedience you should be willing to accept any and all consequences. She said that right after she complained that police started arresting the protest’s own “Marshall” aka leaders. Then again, I think the only reason she talked about accepting all consequences was because it was introduced as an MLK quote.
Yes, WCCO actually played the reporting on it fairly down the line on reporting that criminal charges are coming, as well as hitting the organizers. The way I look at it, it doesn’t matter if the organizers don’t have deep pockets, the idea is to make the organizers’ lives miserable enough that the MoA gets the reputation as a place that isn’t worth the effort to offend.
I love this part of the linked article:
Lena K. Gardner of the group “Black Lives Matter” said several groups, including several faith leaders, took part in organizing Saturday’s protest.
Gardner said the financial losses are not the fault of protesters.
“We came to sing carols and raise awareness,” she said, “and the Bloomington police are the ones who shut down the mall, not us.”
Gardner compared it to December of last year, when thousands gathered in the rotunda to sing a song (http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/video/10942413-thousands-gather-to-honor-zach-sobiech/) written by a young man who died of cancer, Zach Sobiech.
She said that group was raising awareness of cancer, and the mall allowed it. She thinks the mall should’ve been as welcoming to Saturday’s group and its message.
Lena is such a dolt that she confuses a group that sought, and got permission, held a peaceful and respectful rally, and left, with a group that showed its lawlessness and disrespect for other by marching down a freeway and chanted loudly enough to disrupt others’ activities. I hope they take her to the cleaners, wring her out criminally, then go after her civilly. They gave the protesters access to the media in the parking lot, but the protesters just had to make public asses of themselves and inconvenience others so they insisted on making an indoor scene.
I heard that too. And I think she was one of the organizers, so she may have the deepest pocket available, because I am thinking that a female law professor, with an undergrad degree in black studies probably is well paid by St. Thomas.
“Not surprising, a local law professor that the lesser station keeps inviting back…” Personally, I think it’s great that she is on. As a matter of fact, I like the whole concept of ‘Ask a Liberal’. Call it sunshine is the best disinfectant or just plain it’s good to hear the odd knowledge the Keepers Of Odd Knowledge Society keeps. They go on MPR totally unquestioned if not cheer-leaded and forward a narrative that becomes the ‘truth’.
My only issue with that appearance was her labeling any criticism of her narrative as coming from a “white, male perspective”. Given there are plenty of “white, males” who completely who agree with her narrative (the majority of the MOA protesters I saw on the news were white, many male), it would be nice if the host would have pointed out her prejudice in assuming all whites and all males who are white have the same perspective.
As a concept I like the idea of debating the other side and listening to their arguments. Ideally it helps me refine my positions and strengthen my arguments. Sometimes I might even be convinced to change a position. Unfortunately, in practice, liberals have no ability to debate. They throw out appeals to emotion, strawmen or ad hominem attacks as if they are actual supporting facts. I wish I could remember which local blogger repeatedly explains that this is the result of never needing to learn how to debate 😉 Sadly, I assume the professor thinks that discounting opposing positions because they were put forward by a “white male of privilege” is debate and an acceptable refutation of his points because that’s all she does.
Mohandas Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Jr., and Nelson Mandela didn’t march around chanting for an hour, then hit Starbucks for a low-fat latte. They went to jail. Sounds like the right result for the MoM protesters. Hey, you want the moral kudos, you deserve the full experience, including strip searches and institutional lunches. Maybe you can write a book in jail, call it “My Struggle.”
Yes, WCCO actually played the reporting on it fairly down the line on reporting that criminal charges are coming, as well as hitting the organizers. The way I look at it, it doesn’t matter if the organizers don’t have deep pockets, the idea is to make the organizers’ lives miserable enough that the MoA gets the reputation as a place that isn’t worth the effort to offend. To that end, MoA is doing the right thing: starting with criminal charges, then proceeding to bankrupt the organizers with civil damages. By the time they’re done even these Useful Idiots will have learned that messing with MoA isn’t worth the damage and will take their protests elsewhere. Failing to do that will make MoA have to put up with these shutdowns all the time from the leftists.
I love this part of the linked article:
Lena K. Gardner of the group “Black Lives Matter” said several groups, including several faith leaders, took part in organizing Saturday’s protest. Gardner said the financial losses are not the fault of protesters. “We came to sing carols and raise awareness,” she said, “and the Bloomington police are the ones who shut down the mall, not us.”
Gardner compared it to December of last year, when thousands gathered in the rotunda to sing a song written by a young man who died of cancer, Zach Sobiech.
She said that group was raising awareness of cancer, and the mall allowed it. She thinks the mall should’ve been as welcoming to Saturday’s group and its message.
Lena is such a dolt that she confuses a non-political group that sought, and got permission, held a peaceful and respectful rally, and left, with a group that showed its lawlessness and disrespect for other by marching down a freeway and chanted loudly enough to disrupt others’ activities. I hope they take her to the cleaners, wring her out criminally, then go after her civilly. They gave the protesters access to the media in the parking lot, but the protesters just had to make public asses of themselves and inconvenience others so they insisted on making an indoor scene.
Oh, and I should mention the followup article on WCCO. Apparently these protesting dolts are getting afraid of the coming charges and are pleading with folks to call the DA and lobby for pressing no charges. They’re making the argument that it’s a waste of public money to help a private corporation. Too bad they’re so economically illiterate that don’t realize where some of that public money is coming from in Bloomington…
The protesters (who were multi-racial) are threatening that if the Mall prosecutes them…they’ll not shop there any more. OK. :>