Raise Your Hands If You Didn’t See This Coming
By Mitch Berg
Obama is going to keep the military tribunals. The ones he campaigned against. The ones the hard-left took out second loans on the Volvo to try to bring pressure against.
Obama administration officials — and Mr. Obama himself — have said in the past that they were not ruling out prosecutions in the military commission system. But senior officials have emphasized that they prefer to prosecute terrorism suspects in existing American courts. When President Obama suspended Guantánamo cases after his inauguration on Jan. 20, many participants said the military commission system appeared dead.But in recent days a variety of officials involved in the deliberations say that after administration lawyers examined many of the cases, the mood shifted toward using military commissions to prosecute some detainees, perhaps including those charged with coordinating the Sept. 11 attacks.
“The more they look at it,” said one official, “the more commissions don’t look as bad as they did on Jan. 20.”
And we have a “Most Transparent Administration Ever!” alert:
Several officials insisted on anonymity because the administration has directed that no one publicly discuss the deliberations.
Prediction: when lefties say they’ll discontinue military tribunals, it means that halfway into their term they’ll have Citizens Committees carrying out drumhead trials and executions on the street.
May 13th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Prediction: when lefties say they’ll discontinue military tribunals, it means that halfway into their term they’ll have Citizens Committees carrying out drumhead trials and executions on the street.
Yep, and that’s why many conservatives are queasy about DHS and the Patriot Act, which aggregated a lot of political power in Washington. Lefties love using political power.
May 13th, 2009 at 10:15 am
When Bush came in following Clinton he just did a total ideology-driven trash out of everything associated with the previous administration, and was totally uninterested in any form of knowledge transfer. Now we have a president who is willing to keep some of the old administration’s policies after careful review instead of putting everything out in the dumpster.
Sounds like maturity to me…
May 13th, 2009 at 10:26 am
When Bush came in following Clinton he just did a total ideology-driven trash out of everything associated with the previous administration, and was totally uninterested in any form of knowledge transfer.
Off the top of my head, I can think of at least one thing the Bushies didn’t trash initially — the “Wall” that Jamie Gorelick established that kept the FBI and the intelligence services from communicating with one another. Maybe you missed that one, Bill.
May 13th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Now we have a president who is willing to keep some of the old administration’s policies after careful review instead of putting everything out in the dumpster.
Er, Bill? We’re not talking “Yale Business School” wall hangings and “W ’04” stickers. We’re talking a policy that Obama campaigned vigorously against, one that he declared anathema.
It’s not the same thing as, say, keeping Gates.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:01 am
The Useful Idiots like Bill are unable to criticize Obama or admit that just maybe Dubya was right.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:38 am
There are don’t look as bad as they did on Jan. 20 from an Obama POV.
Us on the other hand?
May 13th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Bill Haverberg Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 10:15 am
When Bush came in following Clinton he just did a total ideology-driven trash out of everything associated with the previous administration, and was totally uninterested in any form of knowledge transfer.”
Bill!!!!!!! Another blast from Mitch’s past, from the same intersect as Penigma and I. We go by our nome de plume (sometimes nom de guerre) here, but you know us by our more mundane monickers.
Greetings from the red head and the giant gentle hounds from whom I take my identity here.
I would very be surprised if this sort of rumor actually comes true much less leaping to the Oh-my-god terror of drumhead trials and executions in the street. That would be more of the fear mongering that cost the Republicans the last several elections.
If there is any truth to this at all, which I find dubious at best, I’d be looking for it in the category of reviewing PAST military tribunals to see if they should stand or not, given criticisms of that system, and not to new ones.
Meanwhile, Cheney sweats.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
At least this is good news for the military. Civilian trials of battlefield suspects would have meant carrying Miranda cards on top of the other 85 pounds of gear we carry into combat.
It is somewhat confusing to be a conservative on this issue, Mitch. Are we supposed to be disgusted that the One blew off another campaign promise, or happy that he blew off a campaign promise in favor of common sense?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
And now the same question again on today’s breaking news, should I be critical of the One’s hypocritical stance on detainee abuse photos, or happy that he didn’t put out free propaganda material to AQI?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Dave, just be happy that Great Leader seems capable of learning.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
“…that cost the Republicans the last several elections.”
Another tactic of the Liberal Fascists, tell the Repubilcan party where it went wrong was when it didn’t 100% embrace liberal issues.
Here is a clue, Doggie, the Republican party has drifted from its conservative base.
“Meanwhile, Cheney sweats.”
Why? Are you serious? Just can’t shake that BDS, eh, dog.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
“When Bush came in following Clinton he just did a total ideology-driven trash out of everything associated with the previous administration, and was totally uninterested in any form of knowledge transfer.”
Yeah, well. How much more use could anyone have gotten out of piles of empty pizza boxes, roached splifs, soggy cigars, dog eared copies of the “Encyclopedia of the Meaning of “Is”, and autographed Dixie Chicks CD’s?
Personally, I wouldn’t have set foot in there until the Capital fire department had hosed the whole place down first.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
K-rod says:
“Another tactic of the Liberal Fascists, tell the Repubilcan party where it went wrong was when it didn’t 100% embrace liberal issues.
Here is a clue, Doggie, the Republican party has drifted from its conservative base.”
Get a clue, K-rude, the republican party has no new ideas. The constituency has fled, left you, it continues the pattern of diminishing members like water goes down a drain. It has lost credibility, and instead of responding, you agonize over what direction the water was swirling on it’s way down.
When behavior that has been successful fails, the first response is to repeat what has stopped working, then to intensify it, before giving it up and moving on to trying something new. I’d say the Republican party is
solidly in that “intensify conformity” stage, and the longer it continues, the less adaptable it is. It will be interesting again when th party finally adapts and really does move in a new direction.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Meanwhile, Cheney sweats.
He doesn’t seem like he’s sweating at all, DG. Nor is he acting like a person who would have reason to sweat.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Bill, good to see you’re around :).
That said, I don’t agree, and unlike righty-kooks, am happy to criticize severely the actions of Presidents I voted for.
Obama is, in my opinion, dead wrong. The Geneva Convention (as I understand it, which is better than most as I use to train soldiers it), allows for essentially two classifications, either POW’s – either as regular or irregular combatants, and then civilians who would be defined as criminals if they engaged in certain activities.
The world court, let alone our own, is MORE than capable of ferretting out a just course. If we lack sufficient evidence to hold prisoners, then they deserve freedom, that is the ESSENCE of what distinguishes US from THEM. If there is intelligence data which, once presented in court, would constitute an intollerable breach – there are in fact remedies for that in our courts, and the world courts. If there are actors for which we have full information, but that information was obtained through illegal/inadmissable means, then frankly, just as we do with criminals, then we are stuck – we are obligated to treat them JUSTLY, under the law, or we indict and obviate our entire reliance upon law, civil conduct, and international agreement. Tribunals are at best, an exceedingly poor method of justice, they are prone to political influence (extremely so actually), and unlikely to achieve a result we can support in court – if challenged.
Liberty clearly isn’t a suicde pact, but I stronly doubt there are more than a bare handful of cases at Gitmo for which we are certain beyond all doubt, but for which we have inadequate admissable evidence for a court, such that we should be using things which the world, especially the moderate, muslim world – the world who’s opinion we must cultivate, will not consider such courts nothing less than kangaroo mockery’s of justice. We wouldn’t tolerate such unethical applications of justice against our citizens (Saberi is a good example), in order to lead, we MUST set the example and live to our principles, even and especially when it’s hard to do.
Thus, I believe Obama is very mistaken.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
“Yeah, well. How much more use could anyone have gotten out of piles of empty pizza boxes, roached splifs, soggy cigars, dog eared copies of the “Encyclopedia of the Meaning of “Is”, and autographed Dixie Chicks CD’s?”
Well, it might have been nice if someone had come across that post-it note about Sudan offering to arrest bin Laden.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
*Sigh*
Dogbone is right. The people of America are tired of our old, busted love of freedom and respect for the individuals right to live without Big Brothers hand on our necks.
Heck, how can we fight on against fresh, new hotness like this:
“There is a new mood in America. We have been shaken by a tragic war abroad and by scandals and broken promises at home. Our people are searching for new voices and new ideas and new leaders….”
“We have been a nation adrift too long. We have been without leadershiptoo long. We have had divided and deadlocked government too long. We havebeen governed by veto too long. We have suffered enough at the hands of a tiredand worn-out administration without new ideas, without youth or vitality, withoutvision and without the confidence of the American people.”
Yeah, that Jimmy Carter really set the GOP back decades, didn’t he?
May 13th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
K-rod says:
““Meanwhile, Cheney sweats.”
Why? Are you serious? Just can’t shake that BDS, eh, dog. ”
Nah, I think Cheney is sweating because of things like this email I received today, (personal information redacted):
May 13, 2009
Dear :
Thank you for your message regarding the use of torture by the Bush administration. I appreciate your taking the time to bring your views on this issue to my attention and I would like to provide you with an update.
In the aftermath of the April 16 release by the Department of Justice of the memos approving harsh interrogation techniques of terror suspects, members of Congress have called upon the Justice Department to appoint a special counsel to investigate possible violations of federal criminal law related to the interrogation of detainees. The Geneva Convention and the Convention Against Torture both require the United States to investigate, and if necessary prosecute, alleged violations.
I would prefer the appointment of an independent commission, modeled after the 9/11 Commission, to look into interrogation abuses and recommend new laws against torture and a new torture policy.
The Justice Department began investigating the conduct of the lawyers who wrote the memos, including Judge Jay Bybee, last year. Although the report has not been made public yet, it is expected to recommend disciplinary action.
Congressional committees have begun holding hearings on the memos and our past use of torture.
I believe the use of torture, by any country, is inhumane and reprehensible. Americans have a long history of valuing civil liberties and individual rights. To be consistent with these values, we must not only reject the use of torture against detainees, we must not release prisoners to nations that are known to practice torture.
Thank you for your advocacy and rest assured that I will continue to follow this issue closely.
With best wishes.
Sincerely, James L. Oberstar, M.C.
JLO/mb
May 13th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Sounds like Pelosi ought to be in that sweat lodge with Cheney, Dog Gone.
Otherwise this will be correctly viewed as a partisan witch hunt.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
If you think Cheney is sweating that email, than Speaker Pelosi must have a full blown case of the swine flu.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
“Congressional committees have begun holding hearings on the memos and our past use of torture. ”
Heh…and you think that Pelosi is going to let this get anywhere now that her fingerprints have been found all over?
You’re even more of a dolt than teh peevee, dogbone!
Hey, here’s something you and MC Obikepath could do for us. Write him back and ask him if those homo looking spandex suits have anything to do with why bicycle helmets are shaped like a male gamete.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Swiftee is right. Psychotic, but right. Nancy will squash this, because she is totally culpable, having been in an oversight capacity.
I’ve no doubt Jimmy will get a new bike trail from Chisholm to Hackensack for his troubles.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Terry says:
“Terry Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Sounds like Pelosi ought to be in that sweat lodge with Cheney, Dog Gone.
Otherwise this will be correctly viewed as a partisan witch hunt. ”
In full agreement with you on that one Terry, and not for the first time that I’ve said so here. On the other hand, during some of the recent media tour, Cheney actually appears to have confirmed that congress, including Pelosi, may have been told that torture techniques were being contemplated, even that Office of Legal Counsel had given cover, but NOT that those techniques were used at the time. I’m betting that Pelosi AND Reid are sweating only slightly less than Cheney. Not sure if they can stop this from rolling forward, despite their best efforts.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Kermit,
There’s pretty credible evidence that in fact, Pelosi was only apprised at the barest of levels. I’d say there is little evidence she had good knowledge, however, there is HUGE evidence that Cheney was involved – and Bush as well. My question to you both is (what am I thinking asking Swift a question I’ll never know.. but).. given the tenor of your comments, it appears you AGREE that the conduct was dispicable, even criminal. If so, then it would follow you agree both Bush and Cheney (and any other conspirators) should be imprsioned. I’d be fine with Pelosi going to jail, assuming she’s guilty of war crimes, but the real question is, since you leveled accusations at her, do you stand behind them when it’s pointed out that they are aimed at conduct you have previously approved of?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Not sure if they can stop this from rolling forward, despite their best efforts.
Cheney can’t, but Eric Holder sure can. And he will. By the time the CIA is done leaking on this one, no one will have the stomach to move forward because both political parties will be implicated. You’d have to prosecute everyone in Congress who knew about the program. Do you honestly believe that’s going to happen, DG?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
penigma said:
“There’s pretty credible evidence that in fact, Pelosi was only apprised at the barest of levels”
I guess the “happy to criticize severely” stuff only applies to Presidents.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
it appears you AGREE that the conduct was dispicable, even criminal
Not even close. I just figure, if we’re gonna have a witch hunt, we might as well put an actual witch (Pelosi) on the cucking stool.
Will we outlaw waterboarding SEAL candidates? How about we make sure no women interrogate these poor Muslims during “that time of the month”?
Give me a frigging break.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Putting that poor terrorist in a box with a caterpiller was pretty close to crossing the line, though.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
“There’s pretty credible evidence that in fact, Pelosi was only apprised at the barest of levels”
Really?
Do tell. Let’s see that evidence.
May 13th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
What did she know, and when did she know it?
May 13th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Of course, we all know how committed the previous administration was to full disclosure, and to keeping Congress fully informed. I would be shocked, shocked if Pelosi was kept ignorant of the full scope of both the administration’s activities and those of the of the private sub-contracted employees who also participated.
May 13th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
*waves to Dog Gone and Penigma*
May 13th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
Hey Bill, Nancy good. Nancy right. Pat Bill on the head. There’s a new dog st SitD.
May 13th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
“There’s pretty credible evidence that in fact, Pelosi was only apprised at the barest of levels”
Oh really? You mean besides that right wing media outlet CNN reporting her own staffers say she knew about waterboarding actually being done?
That wonderfully well informed peevishness strikes again.
Now go play in the street, you’re not equipped for serious discussion.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:33 am
Cheney appears calm and determined (as usual). He has made it abundantly clear that he knows where the bodies are buried. Pelosi is the one who is acting panicked.
With every week that passes I grow more convinced that the GOP should have put Cheney on the ticket last November.
May 14th, 2009 at 2:36 am
On the other hand, during some of the recent media tour, Cheney actually appears to have confirmed that congress, including Pelosi, may have been told that torture techniques were being contemplated . . .
Dog Gone, did Cheney use the phrase ‘torture techniques’ or is that your paraphrasing?
When you have steal bases to win you are not playing for very good ball club.
May 14th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Terry says:
“Dog Gone, did Cheney use the phrase ‘torture techniques’ or is that your paraphrasing?
When you have steal bases to win you are not playing for very good ball club. ”
You are correct Terry that CHENEY did not use the phrase torture techinques, that was my wording. He did acknowledge he was referring to the ‘harsh techniques’ like waterboarding. The point stands that he acknowledged that congress may not have been told that these techniques were actually being employed.
When you can so easily steal bases to win, you are not playing against a very good ball club either. But I trust the above puts me back into the category of playing fair?
May 14th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Bill Haverberg Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
*waves to Dog Gone and Penigma*
Wave back at ya, Bill! If you want to get in touch directly, Mitch has my email and my permission to give it to you (thanks, Mitch!).
May 14th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Dog Gone said:
“When you can so easily steal bases to win, you are not playing against a very good ball club either”
So clearly you’re playing against then, correct? One rarely expects “moderates” in the stands to run onto the field and steal bases. 😉
May 14th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Troy says:
“So clearly you’re playing against then, correct? One rarely expects “moderates” in the stands to run onto the field and steal bases. ”
What?????
I agree with the Terry’s analogy in so far as I agree that it is important to be fair, and accurate, and honest in making a criticism. Lets not misapply the metaphor here; my voter registration card clearly states my ‘alignment’ which changed at the beginning of this millenium from Republican to Independent. Independent; it doesn’t say moderate Dem or GoP. By that definition I am not ‘playing’ for either of those teams, OR against them either for that matter.
I do feel that I keep running into this compulsion from some people, to be put into neat little boxes of conformity with little labels that define who I am and how I think. An example would be the propensity for name calling. I have always resisted the pressures to conform in that way, rather defiantly.
All my life I have been told by my various teachers that I have a “Byzantine” mind, by which they meant complex, subtle, and frequently devious. Bill H. has known me even longer than Mitch; I beieve both of them will agree that it is a mistake to believe you know either what I think or how I think; that I have a low tolerance for stupidity; and even less tolerance for dishonesty.
Another mutual friend of ours (Gerald) once paid me the unusual but probably accurate compliment that I was the nicest, sweetst, kindest, gentlest, most compassionate evil person he had ever met or could ever imagine. When I asked for an explanation of “evil”, the answer was that I was ruthless, that my mind worked in ways more ruthless and analytical than he could have imagined was possible.
I treasure that compliment; I’m rarely so well understood.
Now Bill H., in contrast, is not only a very bright guy, but one of the most kind, decent, and gentle people I’ve ever known. I doubt he has a mean bone in his body, and I’ve never known him to be unkind to anyone, even given provocation. (I hope you enjoy the compliment Bill.) I would rather emulate his example, than indulge my own inclinations here.
May 14th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Kermit acknowledged: “Swiftee is right.”
Thanks, but the correct syntax is “Swiftee is right; Q.E.D.”
That is all.
May 14th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
I guess your “Byzantine” mind missed the wink, Dog Gone? *shrug*
May 14th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Serious question for DG, Bill, Rep. Porkerstar, Peev…
Should President Obama be impeached or just charged with crimes for “torturing” some of our brave soldiers in the military?
May 14th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Troy- didn’t miss it, just disagreed with it.
May 14th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Clairvoyant? Now that’s “Byzantine”!
May 14th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Mitch – you know, distortions and exagerations are one thing but..
Obama is expected to use the tribunals for fewer than 20 cases of the 241 which remained at Gitmo, with 13 already in process.
Now, it’s not clear whether that means 33 total, or 7 more (maximum), but let’s be clear, he cut the number by it appears 90% – while I STILL don’t like it, it’s one helluva LOT better than Bush (by 90%), and your commentary failed utterly to connect the dots, point out this rather glaring difference, or in any other way attempt to not mislead your readers into thinking it was simply a full-blown continuation of Bush’s handling. Distort much?
May 15th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Behold the blind adoration for peev’s Obamassiah.
Why is it not wrong for Obama to do it but it was wrong for Bush?
Maybe Peev is just a Useful Idiot and tool of the true Liberal Fascists?
Too much a coward to answer the question?