In rough order (i.e., either can move up or down 2-3 positions in the list depending on my mood):
“So you’re willing to see the Vikings leave?”: I’m a baseball fan – and to the extent I care about the NFL, I follow the Bears. So I really don’t care.
Seriously? No more or less so than I am to see Medtronic or Bill’s Gun Shop or the corner deli or 3M leave. They’re businesses. In a perfect world, they’d all stay here because taxes and regulations and just plain living and doing business in Minnesota were attractive enough. And let’s be honest, we do subsidize businesses, to an extent; tax-increment financing is the main tool Minnesota cities use to draw and keep businesses, which is a sort of subsidy. And we constantly trade public infrastructure spending – road, water and sewer improvements – for business commitments. And in some cases, we do it because business owners say “cut us a break or we’ll move to Texas”. And sometimes we cave, and sometimes we just let ’em go – usually depending on the business’ or its’ executives’ political clout. I oppose it then, and I oppose it now.
“For Only $122 Per Minnesotan, It’ll Create Jobs!”: Oh, don’t be a doof. That $122 will create jobs anyplace you spend it. Whether I spend it at the corner grocery store, or at Guitar Center, or at Bill’s Gun Shop, or on Amazon, or at Keegans Irish Pub, it creates jobs. In fact, if I recall correctly, a dollar spent on stadia creates fewer jobs than a dollar spent elsewhere, on average (and King Banaian will let me know if I’m wrong on that, I’m sure).
“Wow – “No Public Money For Billionaires?” Some Republican you are!”: It’s a fair cop. I’m a libertarian/conservative first, and a Republican second. Corporate welfare does the economy no more good than subsidizing eternal poverty does.
“The Vikings are a part of our cultural heritage!”: So is the Minneapolis music scene. Tell you what – I’ll drop $122 on your stadium (on penalty of going to jail if I don’t) if you throw $122 and buy me the Replacements boxed set (on penalty of going to jail if you don’t). Or, I don’t care, any other part of our “cultural heritage” – mallard carvings or Guthrie tickets or polka lessons or lefse ingredients or New Ulm beer or Edmund Fitzgerald books or Saint Paul Saints swag or any other part of our “cultural heritage”.
Sound fair?
“No – the Vikings are an integral part of our cultural heritage!”: Oh, they’re integral? Then problem solved. If they’re an “integral” part of Minnesota, they can’t leave; they – and/or presumably the state itself – would cease to exist.
“Wow, Mr. Conservative Talk Show Host – “No Money For A Stadium” is the same position John Marty takes!”” Wrong. John Marty takes the same stance that I take. Since he favors all manner of other government subsidies – arts, MPR, eternal poverty – I’m the one being consistent.
“It’s an investment in the community!”: Well, you’re half right. It’s an investment – in Zygi Wilf. Wilf is a real estate mogul; he makes his money by having his investment appreciate. The Vikings, even with their current awful season, have appreciated considerably since he bought the team. A new stadium – especially attached to immense parking concessions and a vast swathe of retail and entertainment space, as in the Arden Hills site – will tack a huge premium onto that investment. Now – what’s the only thing better than a huge premium? A huge premium that someone else pays for so you can reap a huge windfall and not have to pay – or at least not have to pay full price – for. Zygi’s a big boy. He can pay for his own immense freaking windfall.
Any more?
Why must you keep proclaiming that you follow the Bears? Who cares and what does that have to do with subsidizing a stadium?
…
…
The one politician that might want the state to subsidize that stadium is the mayor of Arden Hills. (I didn’t criticize Norm for the Wild stadium, it didn’t help the state but it benefited that city)
Why must you keep proclaiming that you follow the Bears?
1) To distance myself from the peabrains who are waving their purple-and-gold around like building a stadium is a patriotic duty.
b) Because it’s my blog, and I can do what I want to.
III) Because it’s funny to see the reactions I get.
Who cares
Me.
and what does that have to do with subsidizing a stadium?
Nothing, but it’s my blog. See point 1 above.
“The Vikings are a part of our cultural heritage!”
So is fishing. I’m not a big fan of Vikings football, but I do like to fish. If the taxpayers buy me a bass boat, I’ll consider funding their statium.
I’ve never understood why we just can’t say “No”. And tell LA to say “No”. If they do, then the expansion team LA gets will have no place to go when they threaten to leave in 10 years.
And I’m a huge Vikings fan. But it’s OK if (a) taxpayers don’t pay; (b) which means Adrian only signs a $75 million dollar contract; (c) which means Zigy’s franchise is only worth 2/3 of a billion; and (d) which means I could go to a game without having to take out a Line of Credit advance.
Why, oh why won’t you subsidize my hobby? Aren’t I entitled or something?
I think the state should build a replica of old Soldier Field (before the flying saucer landed on it) right where Saint Paul city hall is standing today. They only need to put in two seats…one for me, ’cause it’s all about me, and one for a guest of my choosing.
It needs to have a Fat Johnnies frachise too, of course.
Then I could enjoy the games in style when the Bears come to MN to crush the hapless Vikings.
“For Only $122 Per Minnesotan, It’ll Create Jobs!”: Oh, don’t be a doof. That $122 will create jobs anyplace you spend it.
True, but will they be union jobs?
Angryclown agrees with Mitch on public subsidies for sports stadiums. Especially football. Jeez, they only even play 16 games in the regular season.
I would be perfectly happy to keep the Vikings here so long as we don’t actually give them money that we don’t have. I don’t want to expand gambling nor raise taxes in any other way. But why can’t we just give the Vikings a big tax break to stay put, like we do with other well-connected corporations? Or simply take a small piece out of that massive “arts and culture” slush fund that we were told would give us clean water? Either one and preferably both would get the taxpayer out of the Vikings business and the Vikings out of our pockets, as it should be.
“True, but will they be union jobs?”
C’mon Terry! You know better than that! If the unions get involved, the cost rises to $195 per Minnesotan!
I am a life long Vikings fan, well, since I was 7 anyway, so I do not want to see them leave. I would guess that none of our current elected officials want to lose them on their watch, either. Here are some other points to consider;
1. If Arden Hills is not the site, how long will that contaminated land sit before someone cleans it up, let alone develops it. Ultimately, taxpayers will still be on the hook for the clean up part.
2. The precedent has been set with the other three pro sports teams, so who can blame Zygi for asking for his piece of the pie?
3. If another city is willing to put up the tab for getting a NFL team to move to their city, thereby obtaining any economic benefit, whether it be real or perceived, from that team’s presence, why shouldn’t MN compete to keep them?
A. No one can predict what fallout will occur if the team leaves.
4. J. Ewing has a great idea! There has to be a way to keep the Vikings. User fees i.e. higher ticket prices, especially to (Packer and Bear fans) parking fees (if the site ends up being Arden Hills), higher concession prices or taxes on same.
5. How much of that money will come back to the state coffers in the form of payroll taxes, spending by the construction workers and related suppliers? This is a valid argument.
6. There is the added benefit of depriving the Red Star of the current parking revenue, thereby hastening their demise.
Angrycolon observed Jeez, they only even play 16 games in the regular season.
And only 8 of those are at home. Especially if you are the Vikings. Or the Bears.
Bosshoss429 wrote:
C’mon Terry! You know better than that! If the unions get involved, the cost rises to $195 per Minnesotan!
That means that EVEN MORE jobs would be created!
I love creative economics!
Considering the fact that most fans watch the Vikings on television any way, maybe they should be a stadium-less team that can only be viewed on TV. Just get a big enough sound stage or an empty factory or warehouse, pump in some crowd noise, blow the matterhorn on first downs, maybe add a few cheerleaders – no one watching will know the difference. It will be like distance learning or for some of the more addled – the faked Apollo moon landings.
The Apollo missions were real, Seflores, but those old videos of Fran Tarkenton playing in the snow were faked. Do you really think they’d put an outdoor football stadium in Minnesota? Please.
but those old videos of Fran Tarkenton playing in the snow were faked
Good point, AC. It’s no coincidence that Tarkenton was later a cast member of “That’s Incredible,” in which he appeared with John Davidson and Cathy Lee Crosby, who were both clearly early prototype cyborgs of some sort.
My dad took me to one of those outdoor vikings games in December when I was a tadpole. The child endangerment charges were later dropped.
If WordPress somehow could institute a “like” button similar to FB, I’d definitely have to “like” Mr D’s comment. That was hilarious!
Mr. D wrote:
John Davidson and Cathy Lee Crosby, who were both clearly early prototype cyborgs of some sort.
The John Davidson comment reminds me of something that has been bothering me for some time.
If a cyborg has a hairpiece is it considered a toupee? I mean, it’s just their normal hair.
It’s an excellent question, Terry. Angryclown recognizes a subtle distinction between cyborgs that – of necessity – have artificial hair and those intended to resemble bald men wearing hairpieces. In each case the hair is artificial, but only in the second circumstance should the hair be classified as a toupee.
By way of illustration, here is a cyborg with normal artificial hair:
http://snipurl.com/21g2173
Here is a cyborg wearing false facial hair:
http://snipurl.com/21g25zv
Here is a cyborg wearing a toupee and intentionally discolored facial “skin”:
http://snipurl.com/21g27ty
I second Bill’s sentiment.
If a cyborg has a hairpiece is it considered a toupee?
I believe that’s called an aftermarket product. Kinda like installing a $3000 stereo in a 1988 Chevy Celebrity.
*like*