Georgia cop considers a concealed carry advocacy bumpersticker “probable cause” for turning a speeding stop into a pat-down.
The second thing the officer asked me, after asking for my license, was if I had any firearms. I responded that I was choosing to exercise my right to remain silent on that question. That answer prompted the officer to have me get out of the car for a pat down. The officer told me that the reason for his question (about firearms) was because I had a “right to carry” sticker on my car. Yes, he actually said that. It’s a sticker for Georgia Carry.org (GCO) Although the audio isn’t 100% clear for that part, you can clearly hear him reference the sticker when talking to me and to another officer. Additionally, it appeared as if “back up” had been called, because there were 3 police right cars behind me and two more across the street. In the end, I got a ticket for speeding and for not having a working light bulb over my license plate.
The state; terrorizing dissent into submission for 5,000 years.
Did you consider headlining this item: “Gun Nut Gets Traffic Ticket?” He wasn’t exactly waterboarded, you big whiner.
The clown doesn’t believe in the First Amendment any more than the Second.
Or the Fourth Ammendment.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated.
Oh yeah, it says nothing about motor vehicles. Let’s not extend original intent. That would be what a free people would do.
I don’t know about Georgia, but the SCOTUS has found that coppers have the right to conduct a quick, unintrusive outside the clothes pat-down if they can articulate a reasonable concern for their safety.
They’ll ask you if you have any weapons, and if they find any after you’ve said “no” or nothing, they’ll use it to fuck with you (they may fuck with you because you look like the guy that used to ram them into the lockers in High school, or because the sun came up that morning too, but that’s another story).
I also know that in MN, if you’re legally packing a gun, you do not have to disclose that fact to a copper unless he asks, but you do have to tell them if they ask. Indeed, most carry instructors I’ve talked with say it’s better not to bring it up unless you’re told to get out of the car.
Don’t know if a bumper sticker constitutes a reasonable concern, but I’m guessing the courts will say it is. This guy should pay the ticket and learn how to deal with coppers.
To 2nd Amendment zealots, well meaning as they may be, I wish to say: We’re winning, don’t eff it up by acting like a dick.
Swiftee has recently removed his “Cops Suck” bumper sticker.
So by this officers logic, if Chad from the Fraters house ( http://files.fraterslibertas.com/Drinking/BeerIndex.htm ) is pulled over for some traffic offense and he has a bumper sticker stating “Life’s too Short to Drink Cheap Beer” on his minivan, the officer can require Chad to submit to a battery of highly-subjective field sobriety tests. Since the officer, not a judge, determines whether or not Chad’s passed the battery of tests, Chad may face arrest and significant legal expense in extracting himself from the legal system based on the judgement (mood, intelligence, vindictiveness, etc.) of a random police officer at a random stop.
AC the guy doesn’t seem to have any problem with the ticket. He didn’t do anything to cause any further suspicion, didn’t flee, didn’t imply any threat, he simply had a bumper sticker on his car.
The cop was fairly restrained as well. Aside from thinking that this guy was some sort of militia member based on a bumper sticker his actions will probably be upheld (the Forth Amendment has been gutted). Several squad cars showing up for a speeding citation seems like a police force with to little to do and probably should have their budget cut.
Sheriff Fletcher has come up 250K short this year. One of the reasons he cites is falling permit to carry revenue. Maybe if he didn’t have two full time deputies on the carry permits he would have come out even.
I don’t need it anymore, Kerm; bought the flag.
Don’t speed, and keep your car in good working order.
OK.
It is not clear to me whether or not this person was actually carrying.
If a person is carrying legally, and gets pulled over for something, a great way to conduct one’s self is to hand over the permit to carry with your driver’s license. Doing so short-circuits the need to have a “cold-call” verbal conversation about this. These kinds of verbal conversations, un-supported by the required documentation, invite unneccessary elements of interpretation, perception, etc.
There is no need for this.
Hand over the permit to carry with your license.
A citizen being pulled over for something, who (presumably) knows that he/she is rocking a bumper sticker that evinces support for a cause that might just possibly draw attention from interested parties (like law enforcement,) who then further decides to assert their 5th ammendment privilege during the pull-over stage – is begging for further examination.
This driver handled this poorly.
If you’re packing, hand over the permit.
If you’re not – have better answers than that provided here. Improve.
PaulC;
Don’t know whether or not you will see this, but I disagree with your solution.
I am a conceal and carry permit holder. As such, I have asked both local police officers (Bloomington, Richfield and Edina) and state troopers how to handle a situation if I’m stopped for a minor traffic violation. All six of these officers advised that I was not legally required to volunteer the information, unless I am asked. Even then, I am not required to do so, but they suggested that honesty would be the best policy. Again, they were unanimous in their advise to be polite, say yes and inform the officer that you have a c & c permit, then produce it, if asked. Obviously, there is some profiling that will be done (the horrors!), i.e. what kind of car you are driving, the neighborhood, etc. They all agree that if one follows that script, only an officer that is a real prick would make a huge deal out of it.
Hi bosshoss; Merry Christmas Eve eve.
Context is important; what I’m talking about avoiding is a circumstance where you get pulled over for, say, speeding – at night. That’s not the time to, perhaps nervously, tell the officer something like “I’ve got a gun.” You know? Handing over the permit at the same time as the license is a way to not have to start that conversation under who knows what kind of circumstance it might be.
If requested by a cop, you are indeed supposed to tell them you’re packing. And that is why I was talking about short circuiting the process.
I’m assuming a permit holder who is carrying legally, meaning that there is no other reason that they would want/need to conceal (sorry) the fact that they are carrying.
By the way – it’s worked for me. Stopped for speeding, gave up permit and license, cop looked it over, shrugged and handed back my permit – and then chuckled as I still tried to talk my way out of the speeding ticket.