So Let Me Get This Straight
By Mitch Berg
The Democrats don’t want to require voters to prove they are who they say they are…
…but they want to make sure illegals can prove they are what they’re not?
Sen. Hillary Clinton was asked during a debate this week if she supported New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s plan to give driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants. At first she seemed to endorse the idea, then claimed, “I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it.”
The next day she took a firmer stand (sort of) by offering general support for Gov. Spitzer’s approach, but adding that she hadn’t studied his specific plan. She should, and so should the rest of us. It stops just short of being an engraved invitation for people to commit voter fraud.
Why do Democrats hate America?
November 6th, 2007 at 7:36 am
Republicans want to intrude federal government into voter fraud, a problem that doesn’t exist, while ignoring illegal immigration, one that does. Democrats don’t hate America. Just all you a-hole Republicans.
November 6th, 2007 at 7:49 am
a problem that doesn’t exist,
Except in Milwaukee. And in California, where hundreds of illegal aliens were found to have cast votes in the Lopez/Dornan race. And all those ACORN putzes who were caught ginning up identities. And Washington State, where the more the votes in the last goober race were counted, the more Democrat votes were discovered. And…
November 6th, 2007 at 9:44 am
In todays win-at-any-cost….related to the inject politics into everything….environment, I believe we will have much higher voter fraud.
Mitch, do you have info on Democrats arranging people in Minneapolis to vouch for “new residents”, even though they had never met them before? Bascially, how the scam works, you say you want to vote for Democrats in Minneapolis, so the DFLers hook you up with someone who will vouch that you live in the district and have lived there for the required amount of time.
November 6th, 2007 at 10:05 am
All of these Democrat proposals don’t even begin to pass the simple logic test. If, to obtain your drivers license in New York or your DREAM Act college scholarship, you have to be an illegal alien, then why, when you so declare, aren’t you immediately put on the bus back to where you came from? We keep hearing from our politicians that we “can’t deport every one of them because we can’t find them” then why can’t we deport them when they show up to claim their free gifts? Gee, wiz…
November 6th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Mitch: Do I really have to pull out the whip and drill bitchieclown on his assinine assertion that ‘ain’t no voter fraud a-goin’ on around here!’ load of half-baked clown-tripe? I mean, really ashyclown, are ya really that stupid…oh…wait…
November 6th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Dave delivers big talk, no proof. The usual state of affairs.
November 6th, 2007 at 10:27 am
Cause they work a lot harder than you lazy-ass 9-to-5 Midwestern wingnuts, J. Ewing. That’s why New York has all the money. Maybe we should deport you.
November 6th, 2007 at 10:51 am
Interesting (or not) that the WSJ doesn’t even try to mention the reason behind this legislation, which is an attempt to make the roads safer. Obviously there are some voter registration/legality issues to deal with…but hey, like i said to another poster here, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.
From the Economist.
“Eliot Spitzer, the governor of New York, is making good on a campaign promise from last year. By as soon as December, the state’s undocumented immigrants, who are reckoned to number anywhere from 500,000 to 1m, could start to get licences that will allow them to drive legally.
Many people hate the idea of doing anything that might confer any type of legitimacy on illegal immigrants. But Mr Spitzer argues that it is high time to deal pragmatically with the hundreds of thousands of people living in New York’s shadows. Unlicensed drivers are five times more likely to be in a fatal crash than licensed ones. The governor argues that New York’s streets will be safer because more people will have access to insurance and will know the road rules. “
November 6th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Interesting (or not) that the WSJ doesn’t even try to mention the reason behind this legislation, which is an attempt to make the roads safer.
On the face of it, Spitzer does make a passable case. On the face of it.
But there’s more to it, which takes a little more drilling to find.
Drilling that the Economist and the american MSM don’t seem to want to bother with.
November 6th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Hey Mitch, speaking of getting things straight, how ’bout working on Republican legislators? Another entry in the Wide Stance files:
“A state representative dressed as a woman and engaged in oral sex at a Spokane Valley adult bookstore before rendezvousing at a downtown Spokane hotel for another sexual encounter with a man now under investigation for extortion, police reports released Tuesday allege.”
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?ID=12164
Why do Republicans love show tunes?
November 6th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Democrats hate America because apple pie is chock full of trans fats and you know how Dems are all vegans.
Spitzer, meanwhile, is totally selling out to the immigrant horde.
My man Rudy never gave illegals driver’s licenses. They wouldn’t need ’em. Rudy prohibited city employees from inquiring into immigration status. All part of his long-term strategy of lulling ’em into a false sense of security.
Then he took their art away!
/jc
November 6th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
“Unlicensed drivers are five times more likely to be in a fatal crash than licensed ones.”
Why? Because giving someone a DL magically makes them better driver?
“But Mr Spitzer argues that it is high time to deal pragmatically with the hundreds of thousands of people living in New York’s shadows.”
It’s sunnier in Mexico than NY. maybe they should go back there if they want to get out of the shadows.
November 6th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Terry, perhaps you are slow on the uptake, but to get a DL you need to learn the rules of the road and pass a test – making one a more knowledgeable, and most likely, a safer driver.
The WSJ FAILED to mention the stated impetus of the legislation, instead “drilling” to find the “truth.” – and bypassing any sort of reasonable discussion about the pros/cons of such legislation.
Mitch, you are gonna to believe the story that fits your world view – and quite clearly it is the Democrats hate America and that Spitzer’s main goal is to allow undocumented aliens the ability to vote – but there are two sides to this story.
November 6th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Fulcrum-
Maybe you’re slow on the uptake, but isn’t it against the law to drive without a license?
Are the illegals that are in NY state now driving or not? Are they driving without knowing how to operate a motor vehicle? If they need a car to make a living, whose SSN are they using for the job?
November 6th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
The WSJ FAILED to mention the stated impetus of the legislation,
Actually, John Fund gave it its due, while exposing the story the rest of the MSM doesn’t want to touch.
instead “drilling” to find the “truth.” – and bypassing any sort of reasonable discussion about the pros/cons of such legislation.
What, the WSJ keeps the gates on the entire national conversation?
Since when?
Fund is adding something to that “reasonable discussion” that should be talked about.
Clearly you’d rather he and we didn’t.
Mitch, you are gonna to believe the story that fits your world view
Puh-leeze.
For starters, that’s a trait of human nature. It’s hardly unique (at for that matter it’s hardly something you don’t do too!).
Second of all – that’s pretty rhetorically lazy, claiming that “you’re just gonna believe what you’re told/whatever reinforces your prejudices”. I frankly took a lot of convincing on immigration. My current position is pretty heavily thought-out. It if makes you feel better to believe it’s just a knee-jerk force of habit reaction, fine – but that’s all it is.
and quite clearly it is the Democrats hate America
Wrong.
and that Spitzer’s main goal is to allow undocumented aliens the ability to vote
I don’t believe that’s his “main goal”. But you have to admit that it’s in the Dems’ interest to pad the rolls by any means necessary.
but there are two sides to this story.
And you seem to want to squelch one of them.
November 6th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
I totally want to “squelch” one of sides of the story when i stated, “Obviously there are some voter registration/legality issues to deal with…”
In the article linked, no where does it talk about the stated goal of the law – perhaps he has discussed this in an earlier article? I was just pointing out the reason for the proposed law…which was completely ignored in that link and by you, improperly framing the discussion as Spitzer wants to allow illegal immigrants the right to vote.
terry, i am confused, I clearly answered your question, then you spewed forth a bunch of unrelated questions. But to clarify (please read this a few times to let it sink in)
Operating a car is easy. It is against the law to drive w/o a licenses. I am guessing that many illegal immigrants are driving without a licenses – thus illegally. However, there is a big difference between operating a car and showing the ability to do so with knowledge of the rules of the road. Thus a obtaining a DL would show that the driver understands the rules of the road and most likely defensive driving techniques – making them safer drivers.
November 6th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Fulcrum, I clearly stated that having a DL does not magically confer the ability to drive. If getting illegal immigrants to drive better is really your goal, why not have free, walk in driving classes in NY? You could even give them in Spanish. You don’t even pretend to be interested in finding out what these illegal aliens are doing here and why they have a need to drive.
Here’s a clue for you fulcrum: the WSJ editorial board is in favor of illegal immigration because it lowers the cost of labor.
November 6th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
angryclown said:
“Dave delivers big talk, no proof. The usual state of affairs.”
immediately followed by:
“Cause they work a lot harder than you lazy-ass 9-to-5 Midwestern wingnuts, J. Ewing. That’s why New York has all the money.”
Are you just attempting to drive your first point home with the second statement there angryclown? 🙂
November 6th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
You’re right, Troy. St. Paul is the financial capital of the planet, not NYC.
November 6th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
lazy-ass 9-to-5 Midwestern wingnuts, J. Ewing.
Actually, NYC has spent much of the last 30 years worrying about companies moving the parts of their operation that need actual work done (as opposed to litigation related to actual work) out of NYC. Everything from Jersey to Sioux Falls South Dakota have benefitted from NYC’s reputation for expensive, slothful labor.
That’s why New York has all the money.”
Actually, as noted by Wallace and Burroughs in Gotham (who are a bit more “Trotskyite” than “Wingnut” in outlook), NYC has “all the money” because it made all the money it could off the products of slavery (in the US and abroad) while it could.
November 6th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
“lazy-ass 9-to-5 Midwestern wingnuts”
If the World Trade center had been built in any other American city, the death toll would have been three times as high; people would have actually been at work at that time of the morning.
November 6th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Sure, Mitch. The back-office stuff goes to backwaters like St. Paul and Shreveport. Whatever. There’s not a lot of worrying going on. It’s not like you’re stealing the high-end jobs.
We’ll continue to pay your welfare bill for you. Without whining – imagine, wingnuts, paying taxes without whining!
Interesting that you’re willing to recognize one, and only one, enduring legacy of slavery. Actually NYC is the world capital because DeWitt Clinton thought it might be a good idea to use state government to back a canal linking the Hudson to the Great Lakes. So you all could sell your corn flakes or soy chips or whatever it is you all manage to throw together before sitting down to five hours of TV a night.
A 19th century governor more economically far-sighted than the wingnuts of today. Go figure. Anyway, that’s why Sinatra doesn’t have any songs about Minneapolis or St. Paul.
November 6th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
AK barfed: “If the World Trade center had been built in any other American city, the death toll would have been three times as high; people would have actually been at work at that time of the morning.”
Too bad you don’t have anything worth crashing a Cessna into, AK.
Angryclown’s been to St. Paul. Not a soul at his desk at 5:01.
November 6th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Like the master knife throwing target he is, angryclown misses my point. angryclown makes a couple of ‘interesting’ statements and provides no proof, exactly the thing for which he chided Dave.
I am reading a lot of whining here, but most of that is coming from angryclown. Is angryclown trying to imitate the crusty old crooners he seems to idolize? And isn’t Saint Paul filled with mostly government offices? 😉
November 6th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
If Spitzer gets his way, we will have created a bona-fide group of 2nd class citizens with fewer rights than citizens of the 1st class!
The Democrats have fallen far since the days when they stood for equal rights for all and the dignity of the American worker.
The governor wants to offer three levels of licenses, one for citizens and legal residents valid for domestic travel, another for travel to Canada without a passport, and a third just for driving that would be available for all, including illegal immigrants.
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=75332
November 6th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Not a soul at his desk at 5:01.
Downtown St. Paul is pretty much a government ghetto.
November 6th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
You also lack the handful of big companies they have across the water. But there’s not a whole lot more energy in the Minneapple.
November 6th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Um, “crusty old crooners,” Trojan Man? You understand that Sinatra was not only a genius, but that he’s now a dead genius, right?
November 7th, 2007 at 3:16 am
And so he is less crusty for all the formaldehyde?
Hehe, sorry angryclown, I was just needlessly needling you there. Frank Sinatra is a musical genius! *wipes nose on hand* 🙂
November 7th, 2007 at 6:46 am
Needles have a point, Troy. You were just being stupid.
November 7th, 2007 at 7:26 am
But there’s not a whole lot more energy in the Minneapple.
Then you caught it on a bad day. There’s a hustle and bustle to Minneapolis that I kinda miss (and, at various times of my life, escape) in Saint Paul.
And that people get home after 5, in any case, just means they’ve got their priorities straight…
November 7th, 2007 at 8:33 am
You Republicans are all in favor of capitalism, except when it means you have to work hard.
“Gotta go – American Idol ain’t gonna watch itself!”
November 7th, 2007 at 10:11 am
Republicans are all in favor of capitalism, except when it means you have to work hard.
So we just work smart.
There’s a reason Republicans are happier people!
November 7th, 2007 at 10:43 am
Ouch, angryclown! Your words are like daggers in my heart. 😉
Would you consider the possibility that people get up earlier than you so they can go home at or before 5:00 PM? I would not ask, but you seem pretty “concrete” at times…
November 7th, 2007 at 11:28 am
The only reason your day starts early is cause you’re on Central Time. Yoiu have to match the schedules of your East Coast masters. Besides, you’re up early milking the cows anyway, so it’s a win-win.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Work smart so you can enjoy leisure time, eh Mitch? How very French of you.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Work smart so you can enjoy leisure time, eh Mitch?
Yep. It’s how we can both afford to attend the circus AND find the time to do it.
How very French of you.
1/8 French Canadian, in fact!