Test Case
By Mitch Berg
A Medford, Oregon teacher is filing a test case against a school district’s power to bar teachers with carry permits from bringing their guns to school for their, and their students’, protection:
There is a state statute that prohibits local governments – including school boards – from restricting possession of firearms by concealed firearm permit holders,” Leuenberger said.
Leuenberger said the teacher wishes to remain anonymous and he will list her name as “Jane Doe” in the complaint. When contacted by the Mail Tribune, the teacher said she wants anonymity because she fears for her and her daughter’s safety.
Leuenberger said the woman has divorced her husband and obtained a restraining order against him.
A woman in danger! Why, there are non-profit foundations who deal with that sort of thing! Surely a woman who wants to empower herself against abuse should rate some trust from the system.
No?
No!
The woman contacted the lawyer and the Oregon Firearms Federation after school officials approached her about rumors that she was carrying a weapon. Schools attorney Tim Gerking [Hahahaha! – Ed] said the teacher denied the accusation, but officials reminded her about the district policy.
“It’s our responsibility to provide a safe learning environment for our students and a safe working environment for our employees,” Gerking said in an interview late last week. “We feel that would not be fostered by allowing folks, whether they have the authority or not, to bring weapons onto campus, in particular firearms – loaded firearms.”
Yes. Because goodness knows what might happen if a law-abiding citizen had a gun on campus.
Kevin Starrett, executive director of the firearms federation, said he had been looking for a case like this one so he could challenge schools’ prohibition of firearms.
“We were approached by the individual because she had been threatened by the school district,” Starrett said. “It was just a perfect opportunity for us to get some judicial resolution to this.”
Though the Medford teacher wants the gun to protect herself from an ex-husband, Starrett said armed teachers could prevent school shootings.
“I worry about people being gunned down like dogs because they’ve been denied the right to have their self-defense firearm,” Starrett said.
Nah. Could never happen. Didn’t you hear, Mr. Starrett? Schools are gun-free!
(Via John LaPlante)
September 11th, 2007 at 8:41 am
I took my firearms safety course at South Junior High in Moorhead in the spring of 1964. Later that decade, several students brought shotguns and ammo to Willmar Senior High so they could go hunting with teachers and administrators after the school day. In the Fifties, my cousin Tom was on the shooting team for his Minneapolis high school, and he, at the direction of the school, kept his pistol and ammunition in his locker. In none of these situations did any shooting incident occur. As a matter of fact, people didn’t even joke about such things. A decline in our society, not the presence of guns, has made our schools less safe.
September 11th, 2007 at 9:04 am
In Minnesota, until 1974, one didn’t even need a permit to carry a concealed pistol.
Change in society indeed.
September 11th, 2007 at 10:00 am
I learned to shoot in a gun range in the basement of the Administration building of then Eastern Montana College. .22 single shot rifles into 25 foot targets. The rifles were kept on the range. THis was in the late 60’s early 70’s.
No one was ever shot by those guns either, but we sure perferated a lot of paper.
September 11th, 2007 at 10:11 am
Yup. And in Minnesota, from 1974 until 2003, if you had a carry permit, you could carry in schools, public and/or private, without so much as a by-your-leave. (I certainly did; I was one of the few folks that had carry permits “for personal safety, as needed” under the old law.)
I checked; the sky didn’t fall.
One of the compromises we made in 2003 was to make Minnesota schools victim disarmament zones. It was thought by most of the proponents — me included; I’m not pointing fingers at others that I’m not at myself — that that was a necessary tradeoff in order to get carry reform passed. In retrospect, we were clearly wrong; if we’d simply stood our ground and said no to victim disarmament zones, we’d have still won.
Live and learn.
September 11th, 2007 at 10:50 am
There were times when guns at schools were fun. I remember as an undergrad at a Monsterous Midwestern University taking a riflery class as my PE requirement. At the initial introductory shoot I brought my target to the ROTC instructor and he looked at me funny (I’d outshot him) until I asked if could bring my Anschutz next time since it was better than the ones they were giving us. I was quickly on the University team and didn’t have to worry about that class anymore. Shooting for free was definitely the way to go as an undergrad, where even 22 ammo was a major hit to the budget.
I did get some interesting looks when I brought the case out of my car and had to do the major hike across campus from the student parking in Outer Mongolia, though, and wound up mostly storing my rifle at the campus range since the rifle was more than ten times as expensive as the car it was being transported in. A man’s got to have his priorities.
September 11th, 2007 at 10:51 am
Can it be that it was all so simple then? Or has time re-written every line?
I’m getting verklempt.
September 11th, 2007 at 11:02 am
And you already were unkempt, and the subject of much deserved contempt, to which you, understandably, are hardly exempt.
September 11th, 2007 at 11:16 am
In Minnesota, until 1974, one didn’t even need a permit to carry a concealed pistol.
Yup. But in 1974, MN didn’t (IIRC, and all that) have state preemption, and cities like St. Paul and Minneapolis could write their own rules about such things.
All in all, I’d like to see state preemption and an Alaska-style law (basically: you don’t need a carry permit to carry, but you can get one if you want one), but I think that, for the next few years, what’s going to be necessary is to work on improving the implementation of the present law — say, by reminding Governor Pawlenty that his campaign promise to fix the reciprocity problem has gone unfulfilled, but not unremembered.
September 11th, 2007 at 11:51 am
To add to my comments at the start of the thread, I was one of those students who brought my shotgun, ammunition and camo clothing to school for the hunting trips with the teachers and administrators in the afternoon. Few of us had our own cars back then, so many of the shotguns were stored in our lockers. Fast forward a few years and a student with a t-shirt featuring any sort of weapon or comment about a weapon, or with a charm bracelet with a one inch long pot metal gun-shaped charm, is going to be expelled from school. The same thing goes for prescription or OTC medications. The morons in charge can’t discern any difference between meth and Tylenol, so it all gets banned. If a diabetic kid needs insulin, it goes to the school nurse. And if that kid needs the shot when the nurse calls in sick or goes somewhere else, tough luck. Common sense is the least common thing in schools these days.
September 11th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
mefolkes said: “I was one of those students who brought my shotgun, ammunition and camo clothing to school”
Woohoo! Go Columbine!
September 11th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
By no coincidence, the rash of school shootings (which, granted, while rare, used to be unknown) happened when, more and more, schools became victim disarmament zones. angryclown, not having exactly a keen eye for the obvious, hasn’t noticed.
September 11th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
I guess somebody forgot to tell that to Charles Whitman.
September 11th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Charles Whitman
…the death toll from whose shooting spree would have likely been much WORSE had a number of students and nearby residents not returned fire, keeping his head down and shaking up his aim after his first few minutes of shooting.
Chronicles at the time report more than one student blasting away at the tower with rifles.
Any spree killer is just one armed, alert citizen away from being an “attempted” spree killer.
September 11th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
… as Joel Myrick might have told ac.
September 11th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Considering how often the clown isn’t on target, it’s a good thing he’s where he can’t carry a firearm.
September 11th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
“mefolkes said: “I was one of those students who brought my shotgun, ammunition and camo clothing to school”
Woohoo! Go Columbine! ”
That kind of sums up the mindset right there. If you owned a shotgun, ammunition and camo clothing, you are just one short step from being a psychopathic killer. Clearly bringing them to school is taking that short step.
When I was in school you could tell when deer or bird season started by the rifles and shotguns in the gunracks out in the parking lot. Yet no Columbine type incidents then either.
September 11th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Buzzkill’s right. You aren’t psychos. You just go into the woods to kill defenseless animals. For enjoyment.
September 11th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Clown, if you are a vegetarian, I’ll listen to your criticism of hunting. Otherwise, the deer, elk, rabbits, squirrels, grouse, pheasants, ducks and geese are hardly defenseless, having great ability to evade us, or in the case of antlered or fanged game, counter-attack. You cannot say the same thing about the animals that provided your steaks, chops, hamburger, wings, drumsticks and breasts. They were completely defenseless, and they had no chance of escaping your dinner plate. Get in your little clown car and go play in the street.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:16 am
Angryclown loves meat, mefolkes, and probably takes up the slack of three or four pale vegans. But he doesn’t spend his spare time working for free in a slaughterhouse.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:46 am
Clown, I suppose that you think you are entitled to eat meat since it would be a waste otherwise? Those animals whose flesh you eat only died because consumers like you wanted it. You killed those animals, albeit indirectly. I choose to take part in the harvest directly, when I can, and I am silent and reverent when I make a kill.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:57 am
mefsckedup said: “Those animals whose flesh you eat only died because consumers like you wanted it.”
I think you must be slow. Angryclown gets it. Likes meat, isn’t opposed to killing livestock. Angryclown just doesn’t get a woody from killing animals close up the way you do. Or setting fires or drowning puppies either.
September 12th, 2007 at 9:06 am
Oddly enough, I’m probably closer to a vegetarian than the Clown is.
I’m fine with hunting and all, but the whole idea leaves me (figuratively) cold. Oh, hanging out in the woods sounds like fun – I call it “Hiking” – but the whole hunting thing, not so much.
And it’s really a non-issue to me, since the Second Amendment has nothing to do with hunting.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Clown, you are indulging in projection again. I don’t know of any hunter who gets an erection from making a kill. And please, document where hunters get a thrill out of starting fires or drowning puppies. Many generations ago, all people were hunter-gatherers. Modern hunters celebrate that history, and our role in the food chain.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Thanks for the new age spirituality there, Iron John, but from what Angryclown has observed, hunters are mostly guys who like to get away from their wives, shoot guns and kill stuff.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Clown, you are indulging in projection again
Well, to be fair (and keep things in perspective), Clown never really “projects” so much as “yanks chains”.
Many generations ago, all people were hunter-gatherers
Except for New Yorkers; they just took at 20% cut on what everyone else hunted and gathered.
Modern hunters celebrate that history, and our role in the food chain.
I think we should have a “National Meat Day”. But heaven only knows that Bill Clinton would do.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Or Sen. Craig for that matter.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Clown, your observation of hunters is probably limited to watching Elmer Fudd try to kill Daffy Duck or Bugs Bunny during hunting season, which is whatever Daffy and Duck scribble on signs they competitively post. Or perhaps you have been watching too many movies made by people who don’t have a clue about hunting. I’m out in the natural world during hunting season, participating in the cycle of life, not spending my time surrounded by concrete, steel, aluminum, glass and plastic. You don’t have a clue about the real world, city boy. There is nothing New Age Spiritual about me. I’m a traditionalist. And my name is Mark, not Iron John. You also should consider not trying to butcher my user name. It is the front end of my e-mail address, and it comes from my first and middle initials and the bulk of my last name. I remember one jerk back in high school who substituted “uc” for the “ol” and thought that he was clever. I crushed the jerk by pointing out that one didn’t need to alter his name, Suckstorff, to make fun of it. He never bothered me again. I don’t find it at all mature or intelligent to alter a name or nickname. You tried such an alteration upthread a bit.
September 12th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Wow, big fella. Thanks for the memoir – you could not be more interesting.
Glad to hear you spend so much time lumbering through the woods, celebrating nature by shooting whatever moves. Angryclown prefers to spend his free time flaming ignorant wingnuts on Mitch’s blog.
I too am silent and reverent when I make a kill. It’s my way of celebrating nature.
September 12th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Clown, careful you don’t choke on the big ego, pal. You might want to make sure those are confirmed kills, king of snark, instead of merely figments of your imagination. Angryclown, a legend in his own mind.
You have amply displayed your ignorance of hunting. We do not go out and shoot whatever moves. I’ve returned from many hunting trips, both small game and big game, without having fired a shot, but with wonderful memories. I shoot only what is legal game, and I will not take a shot where there is any significant risk of merely wounding the animal, or hitting humans, livestock, pets, buildings, vehicles or anything else unintended. My shots are as careful and lethal as I can make them. I have never shot an animal out of season or one that is on the non-game list, except for a few that are considered pests to be openly killed at all times. I also turn down shots at very tasty quarry, such as grouse I encounter while deer hunting, because the shot might spook deer.
Unlike some folks I come across, I don’t even joke using the word kill when talking about other people (enemies of my country aside). Oh, just so you don’t get your panties in a bunch, when I talked about shooting varmints, you weren’t even remotely on the list.
September 12th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Mark E. Folkesomething said: “I’ve returned from many hunting trips, both small game and big game, without having fired a shot, but with wonderful memories.”
Bet it’s cause you forgot your ammo and have to beat ’em to death with a snowshovel.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Clown, that’s getting rather feeble. I hope that you’re not chalking that comment up as another snark kill.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
(Silently, reverently, Angryclown ties mefolkes to the hood of his car, thinking what a fine hearthrug he will make.)
September 12th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Only a moron ties his kill to the hood of his car. The engine heat spoils the meat and causes the hair to “slip” so their is no way to save the head or hide for a trophy rack or rug. You’d have to tie me to the roof or the trunk lid. Either way, you’d get a hernia.
September 12th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Oops, meant to say “…there is no way…”. The keyboard gremlins are busy.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
I too am silent and reverent when I make a kill.
Whereas I merely call the police and report a self-defense shooting.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Good one, Mitch. Funny thing, I actually find myself liking Angryclown at times. Then I come to my senses and am overcome with loathing. He sounds like a true city boy who doesn’t have a clue about guns and hunting. I suspect that he had no idea where meat and milk came from until he was in his teens.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
You say that like being not being a clueless rube is a bad thing, mefolkesomething.
Oh, and most of the Shot in the Dark commenters secretly like and admire Angryclown. There’s nothing wrong with that.