So It Wasn’t the “No New Taxes” Thing?
By Mitch Berg
Phred Phelps knows what caused the 35W Bridge to collapse…:
The Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., plans to stage protests at funerals of victims of the 35W bridge collapse to state that God made the bridge fall because he hates America, and especially Minnesota, because of its tolerance of homosexuality.
Oh, Phelps is coming to Minnesota.
In a press release issued the day after the bridge collapse, the church called for protests at the funerals and outlined its feelings about the relationship between God’s plan and the sins of Minneapolis and Minnesota, which it calls the “land of the Sodomite damned.”
If any Patriot Riders are involved in this and are organizing anything, please drop me a line.
UPDATE: D’oh! The Patriot Riders won’t be showing up; they exist to honor veterans.
Fair enough.
Anyone else?
August 7th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
From their poster:
“Better give our signs back”
I think we should give them their signs back… Slightly altered of course…
August 7th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Any chance you can keep him up there? Those of us in Kansas would really appreciate it. Also Westboro Baptist Church is the name he gave his little Jim Jones gathering. I dont think you will find a actual Baptist connection. If you do a little googling, you can find the Topeka newspaper story the Phelps killed back a few years ago. The”church” consists of Phelps and most of his kids and I think one other family. It is run out of the family compound in Topeka. Their all lawyers except for the ones that are disbarred such as Fred himself. Rumors abound about Fred and one of the grandson’s both might be especially close to Dorothy and might have caused that bridge to fall, if you know what I mean. He has two or three kids that live out of state that want nothing to do with that family, and according to that article that never saw print, all those kids had a horrific childhood. I don’t remember the story, but during one of the many lawsuits the family filed, somehow the people that wrote the story got it admitted into court as an exhibit, thereby making it public record. If you got 1/2 hr to kill and plan on dealing with these nutcases, I would suggest you find it and read it.
August 7th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
We ought to show up… Minnesota Bloggers en mass.
August 7th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
here you go, found it.
http://www.baptistwatch.org/fredphelps.html
Back before 9/11 you could find these jackasses at any event. My first encounter was at a St Patrick’s Day parade in Kansas City about 10-15 years ago. If you touch one of them, no matter how deserved it is, they sue the pants off of you. Truly a despicable bunch. When ever their name comes up on the web, someone of the liberal persuasion likes to attach the Phelps to the right, or to the Republican party. The response is usually to point out Phelps was a Gore supporter and a reliable Democrat voter. My viewpoint is that I wouldn’t put them with the Kos Kids. I actually respect and admire the most rabid Kosite more than these people. The fact they can drive around the country in their little church bus to all these funerals without God sweeping them into a ditch shows that He has a twisted sense of humor.
August 7th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
Just curious – which part of Phelps argument do you disagree with?
1. God condemns homosexuality.
2. God will punish societies that accept what he condemns.
3. America/Minnesota accept homosexuality.
Ergo
God will punish American/Minnesota.
I am really not trying to be a smart alec or anything, I am actually kind of curious.
August 7th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Follow the link. He doesn’t argue the 1st one or the 3rd one. What he argues is that God hates homosexuals and had condemned them to burn in hell and there is nothing they can do about it. There is no way to repent. The fact that America and Minnesota doesnt kill them at birth means that homosexuals run the world and since we (everyone else) allows them to so then everyone is condemmed.
He has no coherent argument. It could have easily been Jews. Or Blacks. Mexicans. Left handed people. Follow the link and read the whole thing and you will see what I mean. He is seriously disturbed. Not in a “I dont agree with you, so your crazy” like you and I might get over something we disagree on, but actually disturbed. His whole family is one big case study for abuse victims, the Stockholm syndrom and who knows what else.
Oh, and to answer your questions
1. I am not religious, more agnostic if anything, but back in my church years I figured out that the bible has any number of things that God doesnt like and it seemed silly to focus on just the one. If there is a God, I would have to say as God he must be all knowing and to condemn someone based on they way He (God) made them doesnt seem logical.
2. It is rather presumptuous of man to decide what God (should he exist) condemns. When I went to church I believed in free will. If there is punishment to be delivered, it will come after death and will not be assigned by man. Not to mention in the vast universe, its hard to believe God doesn’t have anything better to do that flood New Orleans.
3. American and Minnesota should be tolerant of it. I dont know if that equates to accepting it or not. Personally I don’t see the attraction of being Gay. However, some friends and family are, and as long as they don’t do it in the street and scare the horses, I couldnt care less. That’s my feelings on straight sex too, by the way. Do I accept gay marriage? Yes. Do I understand people that don’t? Yes. Do I consider people that do not believe in gay marrige to be small minded? Nope.
But to even have this conversation gives Phelps to much credit.
August 7th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Rumor out is that the Phelps group gets their funding bynning lawsuits. They are very slick lawyers (hmmm, won’t that make them Democrats).
It will be interesting to see if they join Thune and the ACLU during next summers hatefest.
August 7th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
They all are lawyers and they sue at the drop of a hat. Thats one of the things that got Fred disbarred. They do their very best to get someone to assault them at these things so they can sue and clean up. They are very vocal and in a perfect world you could know their teeth out over what they might say about you, your mother, your family etc. Pre-internet Fred would fax everyone he didnt like. Repeatedly. 100’s of times a day.
They consider the ACLU the same as they do you, me, the military, the United States. Unless they need the ACLU to shut down a law crafted against them, like the one in Kansas about picketing funerals.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Did you guys see the article yesterday on the Star-Tribunes website (yes, I do go there)? The ACLU and the big Twin Cities law firms have partnered with the hate-mongers for next summers Republican convention.
Phelps should be right in there with them.
August 7th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
“When I went to church I believed in free will. If there is punishment to be delivered, it will come after death and will not be assigned by man.”
My understanding is that is the basic Christian belief. God gives us much free will (he didn’t stop Hitler, Stalin or Saddamn) and we answer after death. That is one of the reasons some support the death penalty. Kill the mass murderer now so he can answer for what he did now.
God does not do a direct reaction. Hence why Phelps is wrong (among a several other dozen reasons).
August 7th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Wow;
This is one of the most rational, and therefore thought-provoking threads on this blog in a long while – certainly on the bridge collapse. It does not continue the Oreillyization thinking of We- already- hate- Nick Coleman- and- we- don’t- need- to- address- what -he- actually- said, in total.
And only 3 of the 10 posts (so far) blame or insult the Left, of course its hard to get there from Fred Phelps. as Chuck shows by his throwaway comments. (And Buzz – Phelps was not a “reliable” Dem supporter – he supported Gore due to his vote against a Gay Bill of Rights and Tippers decency in music work, then opposed Gore and both Clintons for their pro-gay work).
After 30 years of being inundated in Christian teaching and religious study, there are two things I know about mainstream Christianity: God puts people like Phelps, and Ann Coulter, on earth to teach Christians about true Christianity and to test their faith, and as Chuck and buzz point out, they will get any divine punishment in the afterlife.
Thank you, buzz
August 8th, 2007 at 7:53 am
This is one of the most rational, and therefore thought-provoking threads on this blog in a long while
Yep. Now, try to live up to it.
August 8th, 2007 at 11:26 am
I should have been more precise about Phelps being a reliable democrat supported. I in no way meant this as an slur against the democratic party. I have a number of issues with the democrats but Fred isn’t one of them. He has always considered himself a democrat, he has run for office a number of times as a democrat but has always been bounced in the primary. When he supported Clinton and then Gore it was before he went nuts on a national stage. There really wasn’t a reasonable way for Clinton or Gore to know who they were dealing with. He went national around ’98 with the Sheppard killing, but I don’t really know how much national attention he got outside of the gay community at that time. They would picket gay people’s funerals, but it was when they started picketing service members funerals that he really got a lot of press. And yes, for the last 7 years or so he happily condemns both Democrats and Republicans and everyone in between. I apologize if my previous post mislead anyone in thinking he supports the Democrats. The only reason I brought it up is that a lot of people immediately describe him as a republican due to the caricatured viewpoint of the Republican party and I wanted to preempt that.
August 8th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I read somewhere recently about a group of people who wore homemade angel’s wings and stand as a buffer between Phelps and the funeral…brilliant idea me thinks.
August 8th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
If you want to ruin his day, take a page from the patriot riders. They put their (unmuffled) bikes between the Phelps and the families and every time a Phelps opens their mouth, the engines get revved. The riders are on their bikes with their backs to the Phelps. No one sees them, no one hears them. No one engages them. They thrive on people getting into their faces and screaming back at them. The patriot riders drive them nuts. They are completely denied their fun. Important to note that the PRs just don’t show up to the funerals, they are always invited guests of the family.
August 8th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
The other effective protest I saw was when a fellow tried to hit on phred. I suspect a “Fred Phelps is a Hottie” held up by a stereotypical queen would dissuade him. or at least disturb him in a satisfying schadenfreude
August 9th, 2007 at 7:03 am
I saw the same video that Bill did; it was hilarious.
RickDFL: speaking not for Mitch, but for me, I reject all three of Phelps’ principles. Most conservatives I’ve talked to do, as well. (Note: not most “other” conservatives; I’m a radical moderate, myself.)
Most of the religious conservatives (Mitch isn’t; he’s religious, and a conservative, but not a religious conservative; aren’t labels fun?) I’ve talked/listened to do think that homosexual behavior is sinful, largely on the same basis as all nonmarital sexual behavior is.
As to gay marriage (or, to be more precise, the government recognizing domestic partnering relationships between adult people, regardless of their gender) I’m in favor of it; I largely respectfully and very strongly disagree with those who take the position that that would be bad for society. As to God’s opinion on what governments should do on that matter, I haven’t gotten the memo, myself; agnostics rarely do.