420 This, Cheeba Monkey

I’ve long been ambivalent about the “war on drugs”, to the point where I’ve come to favor ending it.  Combining the American appetite for drugs  with prohibition means that the market favors the more desperate, ruthless criminals – which is why Mexico is more dangerous than Iraq right now; more Americans have died of non-overdose-related causes – gang crimes and robbery-murders, mostly – directly attributable to the “War” than died in Vietnam.

So yeah, I favor decriminalizing at least pot.

But on the other hand, as the US passes yet another April 20 “National weed day”…:

Those who weren’t within whiffing distance of a college campus or a reggae concert may not have realised that Tuesday was ‘4/20’, the celebration-cum-mass civil disobedience derived from ‘420’ – insider shorthand for cannabis consumption.

…I’m reminded of the the simple fact that pot smokers are the most irritating people in the entire world.

Worse than Rosie O’Donnell talking in a Fran Drescher voice.

Worse than Crispin Glover and Al Gore doing a rap duet.

Worse than whatever you’re imagining.

So I think we should legalize pot.  I also think we should legalize hitting cheeba monkeys with bats.

Fair enough?

41 thoughts on “420 This, Cheeba Monkey

  1. I’ve heard that pot prices here in East Hawaii (the rainy part of the island) are a quarter or less of what they were four years ago. Unemployment is over 10%. I reckon that the people who can’t find work are growing dope instead. we get over a hundred inches of rain a year. It’s the tropics. And land is cheap.
    I could be looking at the next East Hawaii land boom here.

  2. I remember a kid I knew in high school was typically high when he came to class each morning….we’d have great fun at his expense saying things like “what’s your name, Dave?” and such.

    Poor kid had a horrible home life, which probably explains his habit of coming to school stoned, but would have fit in well, alas, in Boulder.

  3. I think there are plenty of people who are open to reforming drug laws, but the problem is that the politicians who want to take drug laws off the books are often the ones who generally seem to favor a soft on crime approach. And the soft on crime approach really does destroy neighborhoods, so I can’t blame people for voting against it.

    I’ve just never heard a politician who said, “yes, I will vote to repeal drug laws, but I’ll also toughen up other laws at the same time.”

  4. Whatever they do, I don’t favor the medicalization of pot, a la California. As a physcian, I have enough trouble with prescription drug scammers invading my office, using fake insurance cards and other devious means to score. All I need is to have a line of stoners there to procure weed. Yes, I realize there are conditions like nausea from chemotherapy that respond to MJ, but the medical pot community has added a host of other bogus (IMHO) diagnoses for which staying stoned and on the public teat seem to be the self-prescribed solution. So, let people grow their own, but enforce DUI laws with more vigor for people operating cars while stoned or drunk.

  5. Big issue with pot and DUI enforcement is there is not a usable standard to how high is too high to drive. This is further complicated by the difficulty in testing for that level and there is currently no roadside testing option. Just because you have a level of THC in your blood does not mean you are currently impaired. All of which makes it difficult to enforce DUI for pot other than the current outright ban.

  6. golddoc……the medical pot thing is just a backdoor way to procure and legalize it anyway. I say make it 100% illegeal, or 100% legal. Medical pot is like the fireworks stands in Wisconsin. Yeah, fireworks are illegeal, but you can buy them anyway.

  7. “Marijuana smokers across the America lit up in public parks, outside statehouses and in the posh confines of a Hummer parked outside a pot gardening superstore to observe the movement’s annual ‘high holiday’ yesterday.”

    Reports are coming in that grocery stores shelves were empty of Pringles, Ding Dongs, and a host of other empty calorie snacks, as well as Cheech & Chong DVD’s………hmmmm!

    There has also been reports of an up-tick in random-on-demand piss tests.

  8. The “war on drugs” has been used to utterly destroy many of our civil rights. Most people have no idea the outrageous extents law enforcement agencies may legally go to in search of dope.

    And let us not forget that the “war” effort funnels billions of dollars to state and local agencies.

    Legalize it.

  9. “Have you considered the violence and domestic abuse that might result?”

    Can’t see how it would be worse than the current violence and domestic abuse. We have gangs recruiting in our schools, for Christ’s sake.

  10. Have you considered the violence and domestic abuse that might result?

    From legalizing pot? People who are baked are very rarely a problem – certainly not compared with booze, which is legal.

    We have gangs recruiting in our schools, for Christ’s sake.

    And what’s “basic training” for gangs? Serving as lookouts for gang drug deals, and holding.

  11. We have gangs recruiting in our schools, for Christ’s sake.

    In St. Paul schools, anyone recruiting their students for anything is a pleasant surprise….well except the military….unless it’s Hugo Chavez’s private militia.

  12. Stool agrees with legalizing pot, but he’d prefer tasing cheeba monkeys to baseball bats.

  13. Haven’t you heard of pot-bar fights? The loser is the one that first cries uncle from laughing so hard!

    That’s actually really funny…

  14. “I also think we should legalize hitting cheeba monkeys with bats.”

    Vampire bats? Fruit bats? Belfrey bats? Enquiring minds want to know.

  15. I wouldn’t legalize it, you think there’s a black market now? Just wait until the bad dudes figure out econ 101. Legalizing pot would have MANY unintended consequences. I’d be happy to list them in a civil debate here or somewhere else. Oh, and I know all your arguments because I used to be pro-legalization 😉

  16. Well, bring the debate – because Econ101 says leglization (absent other governmetn interference or corruption of the markets) will eliminate the impetus for a black market.

    Why do black markets exist? When a good is either artificially scarce (like cigarettes in prison, or for that matter pot in our society today) or artificially inexpensive (like food in the old Soviet Union, which was kept so cheap that nobody produced enough, so there were shortages). Either way, the possibility to make money due to the artificial scarcity make it worth stealing and artificially selling the goods illegally to those who can afford it and are willing to risk it.

    Why would we have a black market for something that’s perfectly legal? That’d be like having a black market for, say, Cheerios – something that’s available in quantity at a fair market price everywhere.

    Sorry, Ben – if it’s Econ 101, it’s as taught at Al Gore U.

    If I’m missing something, please set me straight.

  17. Mitch the reason you would still have a black market is because the government would tax the hell out of pot and regulate the hell out of it too. If the government can set the price for an ounce at $3-400 or maybe a little less all the cartels would have to do is find a way to lower production costs and undercut the market. And pot is addictive and potentially a gateway drug so we would spend more time jailing people for drug related offenses (if they steal to try and support their habit while it is different it is still illegal to steal, unless your the government but I digress). There is an MA like there is an AA. Look I’m not saying medical pot shouldn’t be legalized, it should but mass legalization will create the above unintended consequences and more. Seriously you want to set up a debate through AM1280 or something I’d love to do this debate, if your game that is 😀

  18. If the government can set the price for an ounce at $3-400 or maybe a little less all the cartels would have to do is find a way to lower production costs and undercut the market.

    $3-400…Whaa?

    Why would cannibis cost any more than a pack of Marlboros? How many people have you heard of being killed over a carton of heaters?

    Your wrong on this one Ben. Trust common sense.

  19. Mitch the reason you would still have a black market is because the government would tax the hell out of pot and regulate the hell out of it too. If the government can set the price for an ounce at $3-400 or maybe a little less all the cartels would have to do is find a way to lower production costs and undercut the market.

    There’s a couple of very big “ifs” there. For starters, even I have a hard time believing government would tax it to four to sixteen times its current black-market value. If it did, then it’d deserve the results it’d get. As Swiftee notes, there’s not reason it should cost much more than an equivalent weight in tobacco (which is actually a harder crop to grow and process for market than pot is), to say nothing of the drug form of wheat/corn/barley, alcohol.

    And your scenario misses a key factor of criminal behavior; the reason that the cartels are willing to kill, and kill in droves, is because the rewards for supplying an illegal good justify the risks; if people are willing to risk jail to use something, criminals will risk death row to supply it – for a huge premium.

    Taxes do cause black markets – there is a black market in pre-tax cigarettes. But you never hear anyone getting killed over it – because the price difference between black and legal market cigs isn’t so great that most addicts won’t just pay it. Same with booze; it’s taxed, but not to the point that moonshining is a serious issue anymore.

    And if the cartels found a way to undercut the domestic industry AND had no more reason to kill to keep their market share – because the product is legal – then that’s a win, too. After Prohibition, there were rum-runners that went legal, and generated immense commerce.

    And pot is addictive and potentially a gateway drug so we would spend more time jailing people for drug related offenses

    No more than we do now with the gateway drugs booze and tobacco. Pot is less violence inducing than booze (to say nothing of meth and crack); PJ O’Rourke said “It makes you acutely sensitive, and there’s no greater punishment in this world”. At any rate, cheebamonkeys have terrible taste in music, clothing and slang, but they’re usually not the ones out starting fights.

    There is an MA like there is an AA. Look I’m not saying medical pot shouldn’t be legalized, it should but mass legalization will create the above unintended consequences and more.

    Look – too much pot can be debilitating, just like too much booze. Or too much food or sex or working out for that matter. How many vices do you think government should protect us from?

    Seriously you want to set up a debate through AM1280 or something I’d love to do this debate, if your game that is.

    Call in sometime when we’re on the subject. Ed and I talk about it once in a while. Although I doubt we’ll have much time between now and the elections. It’s kinda busy out there!

  20. Not entirely convinced but you have given me some more things to think about. Thanks guys, and no I don’t mean that sarcastically. I love having a civil debate with fellow libertarians/conservatives on issues we disagree on. We are a true big tent. And swiftee I have no idea what actual price is to be honest, unlike the majority of college students out there, I am not familiar with the street prices of pot.

  21. Until recently, either was I – I’ve never used it. But a quick google shows the black market prices range from $25-$160 an ounce, depending on where you are.

  22. $25 an ounce? That shit’s gotta taste like dirty gym socks and give you an instant headache.

  23. Mitch, you googled ditch weed. Black market prices go for $100 to $500 an ounce depending on the quality. Medical grade is generally much better quality and goes for up to $400 per ounce. You might be able to double that price on the black market. And keep in mind, with that $25 an ounce ditchweed you will have to smoke until your lungs burn and you get a headache. A few small tokes is all that’s needed with the medical grade and using a vaporizer is common for those than have a prescription.
    Does anyone know the price of pot in Amsterdam? How about the price of tea in China?

    Some kids under the age of 21 find it a easier to get pot than booze. That is another reason to let the government legally regulate it.

    Now we just have to figure out what to do when all those pot-bar fights break out and how this might destroy the stand-up comedy circuit.

  24. he’d prefer tasing cheeba monkeys to baseball bats.

    What would be the reason for tasing a baseball bat?

    Gateway drug, Ben? Did you know that nearly all heroin addicts used to drink milk regularly? Milk: A gateway beverage.

  25. Krod,

    You know way more about pot than I’d pictured.

    you googled ditch weed

    I’m Norwegian and Scottish. Thrift is life.

  26. Oh, dear. I didn’t google long enough.

    Sorry, all you Dave-Matthews listening, Marley-worshiping, hemp-wearing, cheetos-guzzling hippies. I defer to all your expertise.

  27. mitch, google can teach you something new every day. I also know someone from Colorado that has a prescription. You would be very surprised at the changes they have seen over the past year, I know I was.

    Maybe it has something to do with the pot-smokin coke-snortin dear leader in the White House.

    .

    “I defer to all your expertise.”

    This isn’t the capital punishment thread, but thanks anyway, I’ll keep it in mind. 😉

  28. This isn’t the capital punishment thread – right! Because you brought real numbers, rather than Algoring them!

    Kudos!

  29. You know way more about pot than I’d pictured.
    And the final analysis is it’s bad. Sorry, but that’s truth.

  30. wow, this thread went down the tube quickly. I suddenly feel like I’m commenting on Anti-Strib again 🙂

  31. I suddenly feel like I’m commenting on Anti-Strib

    [ARETHA ON] Don’t be blaspheming! [/ARETHA OFF]

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