Fine Line
By Mitch Berg
Joe Doakes, formerly of Como Park, emails:
Isreal is bombing Iran. The Nimitz carrier group is being re-deployed. Questions are coming from all sides about the proper role of the United States in this conflict. I must confess I’ve been struggling lately to refine my personal ideology.On the one hand, I believe in Washington and Jefferson’s idea of peace, commerce, and honest friendship toward all; entangling alliances with none.On the other hand, I believe Iran when they say that if they had the bomb, they would use it to attack The Great Satan meaning the United States. They would also destroy Israel but that’s not my problem – my problem is the defense of my country. So letting Iran have the bomb becomes a legitimate issue of self-defense.Self-defense does not require that we act preemptively to prevent Iran from getting the bomb. Richard Fernandez wrote an excellent piece called The Three Conjectures in which he postulates that muslims will eventually get the bomb and will use it on us after which we will obliterate the entire Middle East. Problem solved.Do we want to wait for that casus belli or act before it happens?If we do act preemptively, should it be done Constitutionally by declaration of war and mobilization of our military the way we did the first and second World Wars? Unconstitutionally, by mobilization without declaration as in the first and second Gulf Wars? We have spent an enormous amount of money and lives over the last century with little to show for it. Maybe it’s better if we let the Jews handle this problem for us, possibly with some quiet support in the background?Plus how do we keep Russia and China out of the mix while we let our proxy Israel blast their proxy Iran?I’m struggling to find the right balance. I suspect Trump is too, and I must admire him for the job he’s doing walking the fine line of keeping the pressure on while keeping us (mostly) out.
Joe Doakes
That – as Wretchard notes – is always the problem: war rarely makes extremists less extreme.
June 19th, 2025 at 8:40 am
It is indeed a conundrum. I do not want US to get involved… officially. And definitely, absolutely, no boots on the ground in any scenario. But we do need to find out if MOP actually works. Imagine what kind of deterrent this would be for anyone trying to hide anything or anyone in any cave. Since everyone already knows where all the arms are coming from, why not sell a B52 and a couple of MOPs to Israel? Change the livery on the plane and voila! Kabooom!
But ultimately, allow Israel to finish the job and take out Islamic regime at the head, and let Pahlavi dismantle Fordo. No need for MOPs. But then we are still stuck with a question, does MOP works as advertised? Conundrum indeed.
June 19th, 2025 at 8:52 am
Despite the razor’s edge that Trump is walking on this, the results of a CNN poll that asked “should Iran be denied nuclear weapons at any cost”, were pretty telling. Republicans answered 83% yes, Democrats 73% and Independents 75%. The talking bobble heads were surprised that so many people agreed, because: Trump.
June 19th, 2025 at 10:19 am
My take on Iran is that, by supplying rockets to the Houthis, Hamas, Hezbollah, and rebels in Iraq, Iran has been giving everybody in the region plenty of casus belli. Hence the question is not whether one can go in and take out their nuclear program, but what the best course of action is in many regards.
And since a lot of that casus belli is against civilians, especially those in Israel, I think that waiting until Iran detonates a nuke in Israel would simply say to the world that when we say “never again”, we really mean “never mind”. I don’t want to be party to that.
June 19th, 2025 at 10:43 am
Fighting a two front war while committing a genocide destroyed the Third Reich.
Israel is slaughtering Gaza while fighting Lebanon, Syria and Iran.
Can Israel succeed where the Nazis failed? Or more accurately, can the US ?
June 19th, 2025 at 10:50 am
The IDF has taken a page from Hamas’ playbook, and have set up HQ’s in hospitals.
I suppose they’ll move into schools and water treatment facilities now.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-iran-attacks-nuclear-news-06-19-2025-b508817b78ed8d2f6067c1516215cf94
June 19th, 2025 at 1:09 pm
I don’t care what Israel does in their local conflicts. Read the Book of Joshua -warfare in the Middle East has never conformed to the high-minded notions of the Geneva Conventions. But the fact Israel’s interest temporarily aligns with ours (eliminating Iran as a nuclear threat) makes them a useful tool to accomplish our goal without getting our hands dirty. I can live with that.
June 19th, 2025 at 1:58 pm
Tulsi Gabbard, who is in a position to know, and who has earned my trust, says Iran isn’t building nukes. Trump says he don’t care, he’s sending our guys to go fight another war for Israel.
Y’all are getting rope-a-doped by “weapons of mass destruction” again! I admit I got sucked in by GWB, to my lasting shame, but AIPAC isn’t dropping any shekels into my bank account and I’m not stupid enough to fall for this bullshit again.
Iran is controlled by a bunch of Muslim nutcases. They suck. But let’s take a look at the score card:
Israel regularly spies on us.
Israel stole our nuclear tech and material
Israel attacked a US Navy ship, killed 34 and wounded 114 sailors.
Israel buys congressman like the cheap whores they are, and consistently interferes with our government.
Israel has been illegally building settlements on occupied territory for 30 years, violently displacing the rightful owners.
Israel is committing war crimes.
What has Iran done to the US beyond saying hurty words and burning poorly made American flags? Nothing. 9/11 was a Saudi job, and we’re still kissing their asses!
Trump is selling out our last best chance at redeeming this wretched mess of a country, and you’re cheering him on.
Y’all are nuts.
https://apnews.com/article/gabbard-trump-intelligence-iran-nuclear-program-51c8d85d536f8628870c110ac05bb518
June 19th, 2025 at 5:11 pm
Regarding Kremlin Tom’s comments, what has Iran done to us? Well, besides arming the Houthis to fire rockets at U.S. ships, arming the terrorists who killed 242 Marines in Beirut in 1982, imprisoning the U.S. embassy for over a year in the Carter administration, arming Hamas as they took U.S. citizens hostage and murdered them in 2023, arming rebels in Iraq with IEDs to kill U.S. soldiers…..
Honestly, Tom, do you read the freaking papers? Iran is the #2 sponsor of terrorism in the world, right behind Russia.
June 19th, 2025 at 6:24 pm
^ DNI Gabbard tells us she and Trump are “on the same page” when it comes to Iran nuclear timeline.
“Pres Trump was saying the same thing that I said in my annual threat assessment back in March. Unfortunately too many people in the media don’t care to actually read what I said”
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/06/tulsi-gabbard-breaks-silence-after-trump-publicly-refutes/
June 19th, 2025 at 7:28 pm
Boo, it’s certainly possible that the Iranian nuclear threat is overstated, same as Iraq’s was overstated, and therefore we’re being led astray by imperfect data, if not outright false data. Still leaves us with two options: strike first or wait for them to strike first.
The third option – do nothing – is off the table. That option only exists if we believe Iran will never strike us and therefore we are under no threat so we have no legitimate need for self-defense. I don’t believe that. I take Islamic fundamentalists at their word. They intend to destroy The Great Satan as soon as they obtain the means. They must – it’s their duty under God – and they are perfectly content to lie to us about their intentions and capabilities right up to the moment of detonation.
Of course, the real solution to Islamic terror has nothing to do with air support, the real solution was articulated by Pope Urban II in 1095 at Clermont, in France. Sadly, that option is also off the table.
June 20th, 2025 at 6:07 am
I watched one of Lara Logan’s podcasts last night. She had on a former senior level FBI counter terrorism specialist. The topic was the proliferation of Islamo-Communist cells in the U.S. and how they are funded. Of course, USAID had provided grants to them. They pointed out that John Kelly, only stopped one $500k grant for optics, but let others go through.
According to him, the largest concentrations are in Houston, Dallas, a 35 mile radius around Chicago, Dearborn, Paterson, NJ and Phoenix. You’ll be thrilled to learn the Twin Cities were actually number five.
Guess which states have been most relentless in smacking them down? South Dakota and Montana.
He also said that they raise huge amounts of money from the Muslim community, stating that it wasn’t uncommon for them to raise $1 million in a weekend.
June 20th, 2025 at 6:08 am
Love moderation first thing on a Friday morning.
June 20th, 2025 at 9:14 am
boss, that data is behind the premise of Kurt Schlichter’s novel, The Attack. Well worth reading, btw.
June 20th, 2025 at 11:41 am
Regarding Kremlin/Teheran Tom’s claim that Israel is hiding military assets in hospitals, false. His own link suggests that there “might” be a building nearby, and of course it’s always dangerous to take anything at face value from the Iranians.
This is especially the case when one considers that few, if any, of Iran’s ballistic missiles are accurate enough to hit anything smaller than an air force base without endangering civilians. The very act of launching one at any populated area is a war crime.
And a side note is that if Teheran actually wants to “win a war”, perhaps their best bet would indeed be to, say, attack air force bases where the Israeli jets are stationed. The fact that they don’t appear to be doing this tells us that Iran’s goal is terrorism.