A Matter Of Trust
By Mitch Berg
Self-governing society depends on people trusting each other, and the institutions we create.
Put a pin in that thought.
A lot of people on social media, not to mention the victim’s family as quoted in this Fox9 tweet, were a little horrified by the denouement to this horrible case, which we covered here almost two years ago:
It never went to trial:
Alexis Saborit, 42, was convicted of first-degree premeditated murder in court on May 11 in the death of 55-year-old America Thayer. However, Judge Caroline Lennon ruled on Saborit’s mental competency on Monday, citing in part psychologists determined “[Sarboit’s] mental illness prevented him from understanding his actions were morally wrong,” the order reads….
The order discusses Saborti’s history of mental illness, including his hospitalizations for “bizarre delusions” early as March 2013. He suffered a traumatic brain injury after being in a coma from a car crash in 2017 and began experiencing auditory hallucinations and paranoid delusions.
After the crash, he was hospitalized in May 2020 for believing there was a camera in his head after the crash and everyone could hear what he was thinking, according to court records. He was also diagnosed with various mental health disorders, including manic psychosis and delusional disorder, among others.
The defense argues since no expert testimony or evidence challenged the psychologist’s opinions he was mentally ill at the time of the crime, he should not be held criminally liable.
Now, on one level I get the horror and revulsion. It’s a grisly, horrific crime.
But determining whether someone is incompetent to stand trial – “insanity” – is, like self-defense, an “affirmative defense”; the defense affirms “Yes, my client did what he’s accused of, but he was so out of his mind that trying him for it would be pointless; he can’t participate in his own defense”. As steep a hill as getting “self-defense” is to climb, insanity may be even harder to get past a judge.
Or so one hopes.
So let’s un-pin that first bit from way above.
Whatever the merits of the case (I don’t know), or Judge Lennon’s reasoningi – after this last five years in the Twin Cities, how many of you looked at this decision and thought “I just don’t trust that our legal system got this right”?
July 19th, 2023 at 11:25 am
It would be nice see a poll on the level of elite trust/detrust by non-elites.
The elites response to the covid was revealing. The response of the elites to covid was chaotic and downright harmful ways that are obvious, especially to the non-elites who suffered the most from the economic and social effects of the lockdowns and half-lockdowns.
I will remind you that while Gavin Newsom closed California’s public schools, he sent his own children a private school that remained open. It would be hard to imagine a greater act of hypocrisy. Even democrats should be disgusted by Newsom openly flaunting of the rules he imposed on others.
July 19th, 2023 at 11:28 am
does this mean this particular POS is free to live in some homeless encampment in Minneapolis?
Or is he committed to a psychiatric hospital until such time as he is mentally competent to stand trial?
July 19th, 2023 at 11:30 am
^ exactly my questions too.
July 19th, 2023 at 11:36 am
As anyone who know me knows, I’ve never trusted cops at all and there’s more than enough evidence to convince anyone that some (too many) DA’s are crooked af, I nonetheless still gave the judicial system the benefit of the doubt.
Well, the last three years have convinced me that justice in this country has completely broken loose of it’s moral underpinnings and now floats free on the fetid and corrupting political winds.
It’s delusional to still believe Weimerica is a credible, serious country. It is not. Weimerica is a three ring circus and gulag all rolled into one. We live in a country where agents of the federal government can, and have shown up to elderly people’s home dressed and armed for battle, then conducted military assaults complete with armored vehicles…because Bad Think.
I find solace in the firm belief that Weimerica has not much farther to go before it falls completely. Preparing for that certainty has directed all my efforts for the past 3 years, and at this time, we are fairly well positioned to survive whatever comes down the road as well as anyone.
July 19th, 2023 at 11:40 am
MMP, Newsom’s behavior isn’t hypocrisy; it is distain. They see us as cattle to be rounded up, branded and corralled. His utter indifference to any repercussions says everything.
Same goes for memaw Clinton. She broke the law, and she knows we know she did…she just don’t give a fuck because she knew who was at the wheel in DC and knew nothing would happen…same for Comey and so many others.
July 19th, 2023 at 11:43 am
^ it’s hierarchy not hypocrisy
July 19th, 2023 at 12:02 pm
bn
a friend of similar sentiments has been experimenting with trebuchets mounted on old but mobile pickup trucks pitching gelled diesel incendiaries as a perimeter defense tool because nothing in the modern LE/Military siege playbook is prepared for it. He’s been delivering 5kg payloads to 270m using a flywheel design. while he’s still limited to contact igniters he’s working on timed ignition 5 meters above the target.
July 19th, 2023 at 12:33 pm
I’d honestly be fine with a defendant being found too mentally incompetent to stand trial as long as it came with a ruling that the same individual was too mentally incompetent to live in society. As long as the person gets locked up permanently, I don’t really care if it’s in a hospital or prison.
July 19th, 2023 at 12:33 pm
I’m neither a lawyer nor a psychiatrist. Here goes, anyway. The facts of this case revolt me. If I were a confidante of the judge, I would tell her that awareness of an act being morally wrong are not on point. If the perp had killed a stranger and left her body in his apartment while acting as if nothing had happened any different than if he had killed a bug, I’d agree he was unaware of the morality part. But he didn’t. He sought her out, killed her, decapitated her, and tried to dispose of the body. Purposeful activity that points to a very depraved mind. I don’t think Ted Bundy considered what he did as immoral, but he certainly acted with a depraved mind. For those of you keeping score at home, I believe one of the things Derek Chauvin lost his freedom about was having a depraved mind. Go figure. Yeah, people are losing, or have lost, their trust in the criminal justice system. If the perp gets on the right meds, finds a friendly psychiatrist, he could end up like John Hinckley, a free man.
July 19th, 2023 at 12:35 pm
From the end of the article.
The state will look to make sure he remains in a secured hospital setting for years to come, but legal experts report, there is a chance he walks out of there someday in the future.
July 19th, 2023 at 1:03 pm
If I read this right (“since no expert testimony or evidence challenged the psychologist’s opinions”) it looks like the prosecution took a dive and did not oppose the defense NGI motion. If they had, then maybe Golfdoc’s excellent scenario could’ve played out.
July 19th, 2023 at 1:22 pm
believe one of the things Derek Chauvin lost his freedom about was having a depraved mind.
Depraved mind or not, Chauvin did not kill anyone. His persecution, prosecution and verdict were 100% politically motivated. Or are you suggesting that we should go full “minority report”?
Am I the only one who thinks prosecutors did not pursue this case because “purposeful” murder is so passe and there are more important things to prosecute, like.. oh… using wrong pronouns, or being a conservative, or saying that previous election was stolen… you know… REAL crimes.
July 19th, 2023 at 1:37 pm
Well, if he is released into the wild, then goes after another victim, I hope that that person has a Glock 19 or similar self defense weapon and ensures that he never bothers anyone again.
July 19th, 2023 at 1:47 pm
The big questions are why he was in the country in the first place–two deportation orders had been filed for him–and why, given that he was in the country, didn’t mental health officials work to keep him confined?
I’ve taken a look I never wanted to at our mental health system as my sister-in-law is bipolar, and for a while was married to a bipolar man. We could always tell when he was about to become manic because he’d start buying and selling cars and visiting strip clubs to “evangelize.” Somehow, though, his therapists never took action–I don’t know if it was willingness, knowledge, or ability.
July 19th, 2023 at 1:48 pm
I encourage that behavior, pig.
Trebuchets won’t work at my compound though, I’m completely wooded in. I have was to capitalize on that, though.
July 19th, 2023 at 1:56 pm
For heaven’s sake Woolly, if you want to make sense of this you really need to define what you mean by such terms as the governing class or “elites”; which “elites” are you referring to.
Without such definitions you cannot avoid such a piece degenerating into meaningless waffle.
Woolly has made an art form out of allusive and illusive writing.
There is a misconception that everyone who rails against the “elite” is against hierarchy in general, when in practice they just hate the current rulers. Particularly on the right the problem is generally who is in charge, not that someone is.
July 19th, 2023 at 2:04 pm
and you Emery, are still a depraved pedophile.
July 19th, 2023 at 2:19 pm
JPA: just to clarify, I don’t believe Chauvin murdered Floyd either. But the depraved mind bit was thrown in amidst the charges. And the jury bought it.
July 19th, 2023 at 2:45 pm
Jason Aldean has released a song, “Try that in a small town” about the chaos being perpetrated by leftists and savage blacks in Weimerica, and how small town Weimericans will fuck you up if you try that around them.
It’s got all the necessary neo-con tropes “I got a gun my grandfather gave me” (puke)
Wish someone had the balls to (((notice who))) is funding all this shit…but that’s too much to expect of neo-cons who spent half the day sucking off Isaac Herzog in Congress today. (Yes boys, your AIPAC shekels are on the way)
But I do think that when the wheels fall off, it will start in Midwest and SE small towns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1_RKu-ESCY
July 19th, 2023 at 2:51 pm
Chauvin is being lynched in slow motion.
July 19th, 2023 at 3:06 pm
I completely agree with JPA with regards to Murder 2. The statute for Murder 2 has 4 conditions:
Intentional 1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation
(obviously not since he was following MPD procedures that were accepted AT THAT TIME)
Intentional 2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting.
(was out on the street, not driving, not shooting)
Unintentional 1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting
(he was not committing another crime, he was following MPD procedures that were accepted AT THAT TIME)
Unintentional 2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order.
(PRETTY sure there was no OFP in place between Floyd and Chauvin)
Murder 3, however, even had the case not been so blatantly politicized, still might have been possible to successfully prosecute:
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind
That was the key phrase – it was very possible to portray Chauvin as depraved.
609.195 (b) is specifically for drug dealers who give/sell drugs that kill a person.
Of course, this is all completely ignoring the fact that he was breathing the entire time Chauvin had his knee on his shoulder (because he was still talking), was breathing (lightly) when he was put on the stretcher, and (per the FIRST UNTAINTED, UNBIASED, UNPURCHASED autopsy) had A) an uninjured neck and trachea, and B) enough fentanyl in him to kill a horse.
July 19th, 2023 at 4:59 pm
A tiny little blather bleat from the troll today.
Getting weaker. Brain shrinkage from alcoholism is likely.
July 19th, 2023 at 7:03 pm
rAT, have you been trading shots at the ER nurse with the Natives up there in mosquito central for shots of firewater?
July 19th, 2023 at 7:14 pm
Just a reminder — Biden appointed a man in a dress to the position of US Surgeon General, and this man, the chief medical authority of the United States, literally cannot explain the difference between male and female human beings.
July 19th, 2023 at 8:24 pm
UMMP, thankfully only the assistant secretary for health, but still, yes. Insanity is becoming a required qualification for these jobs.
July 19th, 2023 at 8:39 pm
Old and busted: New York Coty welcomes immigrants.
The new hotness:
https://twitter.com/JCColtin/status/1681720603101765632?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1681720603101765632%7Ctwgr%5Ec8d5c67a6411986e661b94dcc6109dc54c188ab2%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Finstapundit.com%2F595884%2F
Teaching new Americans to distrust the promises of Democrat politicians is a good thing
July 19th, 2023 at 9:28 pm
Elites: “The rest of you guys need to understand that the science says that burning fossil fuels will heat the world to the point where millions or billions will die, and the earth will become uninhabitable. Also the science says that there is no biological difference between men and women.”
July 20th, 2023 at 6:32 am
I’m wondering when they are going to follow the blatant lies about WuFlu deaths (padding the numbers with deaths from other causes) to push their gloBULL warming agenda?
July 20th, 2023 at 6:44 am
boss, there’s no need to follow, it was global warming that caused so many WuFlu deaths. If Bigman Jones hadn’t been using his charcoal grill, someone’s grandma would still be alive.
July 20th, 2023 at 8:11 am
Busted.
July 20th, 2023 at 8:55 am
On a related heinous note, remember the Flanagan, et al, being up in arms to support the trans community after one was severely beaten on the LRT? Justice has spoken:
https://www.startribune.com/men-receive-probation-for-minneapolis-light-rail-assault-that-seriously-injured-transgender-woman/600290915/
Probation for the offenders, whos’ brains must still be developing. Apparently, causing someone else’s brain matter to leak out on the pavement gets you probation as long as it’s determined (through forensic mind-reading) that it wasn’t a hate crime.
July 20th, 2023 at 9:04 am
^ Of course. I guess trannies now know where they stand in the Hierarchy.
I have a question. I can’t keep track. Is “transgender woman” Newspeak for “man”? Or rather “man with severe mental issues”? Or is it a woman who want to be a man? Or rather a “woman with severe mental issues”? Please help.
July 20th, 2023 at 9:31 am
(padding the numbers with deaths from other causes)
boss, that ship had sailed, from NYT no less:
NY Times Reports Coronavirus Deaths Overcounted by 30%
In the meantime, about that population decrease from our malthusian overlords: we have an outbreak of parasitic infections in the city. Guess what doctors are treating it with – yep, you guessed it, antibiotics. Why? because they cannot (and/or refuse to) prescribe the drug that would treat the disease and not the symptoms. The drug that saved millions of lives across the world from exact same condition, drug whose inventor got a nobel prize for medicine for saving millions of lives – yep, you guessed it, Ivermectin. Because SCIENCE™! and g*d forbid it falls into the wrong hands of jab-deniers! So people will suffer and die.
Sorry doc, nothing personal, but I laothe the current cadre of pigs that get medical degrees today. They are worthless and a threat to my, yours and ours wellbeing, just like pigs in police uniform.
July 20th, 2023 at 9:52 am
Doctor: Nurse, this patient needs Ivermectin. Administer a dose.
Nurse: I’m sorry, Doctor, I can’t do that.
Doctor: Why not?
Nurse: The Hospital Administrator said so.
Doctor: He’s an MBA. I’m an MD. What’s he know about it?
Nurse: The feds say Ivermectin is only for horses.
Doctor: It’s used all over the world with tremendous success!
Nurse: Our funding depends on compliance with federal regs, which forbid it.
Doctor: We’ll see about that.
Admin: You wanted to see me?
Doctor: You overruled my professional medical judgment. Why?
Admin: Because it was unhealthy.
Doctor: Unhealthy to cure a patient? How?
Admin: Unhealthy for the hospital, to lose funding if we violate political mandates, and unhealthy for you, personally, to be brought up on ethics charges for off-label prescription not to mention engaging in witchcraft, satanism, collusion with Russia, and insurrection. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Let the patient die and we’ll issue a press release blaming Trump.
Doctor: That’s outrageous! I won’t do it.
Admin: Give me your hospital ID for a sec. Thanks. Good luck on your new job. Security! Oh, and don’t forget that Non Disclosure Agreement you signed. Be a shame if we had to sue you into penury in addition to all your other troubles.
July 20th, 2023 at 11:38 am
Defense attorney Peter Martin said that attack was “certainly not a hate crime” but rather was “completely based on chemical dependency problems.”
See, if they had hated the victim for being a man in a dress, it’s off to prison with them because they are responsible for being haters.
But, since they were junkies who fractured a person’s skull in the process of robbing them for drug money, it’s probation. In both cases the intent would be to assault a person, so I guess I’m seeing the blindfold slipping from ol’ lady justice here.
I suppose the goal
July 20th, 2023 at 12:28 pm
MMP – you’re guilty of a hate crime for just now assuming Lady Justice’s gender.