The Immovable Object

I’m not Catholic.  I never will be.  I have my theological reasons.

I have nothing against Catholicism or Catholics. Many of my best friends, and some of my relatives, are Catholic.  I agree with John Paul II – there are many paths to salvation.  I don’t believe Catholicism is a detour on the road to salvation. 

As it happens, I’m Presbyterian.  The theology of the Presbyterian Church just makes more sense to me (even though the actions of the Presbyterian Church in the USA’s non-clerical governing body on temporal issues frequently don’t).  I believe strongly in its focus on scripture, its mix of justification by faith with strong encouragement of putting ones’ faith into action, its governance, John Knox’s founding beliefs on the relationship between government and the faithful (hint:  it strongly influenced how this country was founded), and many, many other things.

Which isn’t to say there aren’t things I respect about Catholicism – indeed, as a newly-minted conservative in the mid-eighties, Pope John Paul II’s example was downright inspirational.

But given a choice between…:

  1. starting a pressure group within the Catholic Church – say, “Catholics for Justification By Faith Without Eschewing Works, An Attitude of Judging Civil Authority By Its Record On Being Good Versus Evil, and An Elected Church Governing Hierarchy”, and spending decades/centuries duking it out with a church that is based on theologically inimicable principles, or…
  2. …joining a church that actually practiced these things…

…the choice seemed fairly simple (presuming one doesn’t live merely to fight fruitless battles the end of which one will never see).

Which is why I see things like this:

Saying they don’t want to go back in the closet, gay and lesbian Catholics and their supporters took their annual prayer service celebrating gay pride outdoors Wednesday night…About 100 people marched from the parking lot to the front of St. Joan of Arc Catholic Church in south Minneapolis, where they celebrated a [GLBT prayer service] officials from the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis had banned from the church itself.

I’m totally with ’em about not going back into the closet.

But…well…

Lucia Engelhardt, 2, was helping her sister Anna, 9, carry a sign reading “Gay love is not a mortal sin.”

I may or may not agree on that count.  I’m pretty “live and let live” on these sorts of things.

But to the Catholic Church, the way of the gay is a mortal sin.  And changing the Catholic Church is like changing the orbit of the planet.

Their 7-year-old sister, Ingrid, also carried a sign supporting gays in the Catholic Church.

“We’re here to support our gay friends,” said their mother, Stephanie Vagle. “And to show our displeasure with the Catholic Church over this issue,” their father, Bill Englehardt, quickly added.

So here’s a question; if you disagree so completely with the Catholic Church over something that the Church itself is so adamant about not changing, why stay Catholic?

Why not leave?

Why not find a church that reflects your beliefs?  It’s an ancient, honorable thing;  the Armenian and Coptic and Chaldean and Indian and finally the Greek Churches left over creeds and doctrines and, I dunno, the heights of miter caps for all I remember.  We Protestants left over all manner of things, and have collected half a billion unforced turnovers since then.  The Episcopals seceded over the whole “my king beats your pope” thing.

Just saying – it’d be nothing new.

I’m genuinely curious – for the second day in a row, as it happens; why stay in a church whose beliefs are so inimicable to you?

Is it the incense?  The nuns?  The tradition?

Someone explain it, please.

11 thoughts on “The Immovable Object

  1. “s it the incense? The nuns? The tradition?

    Someone explain it, please.”

    Probably the One True Church thing. You know, the unbroken line all the way back to St. Peter, Jesus’ BFF.

    Course you guys have that defrocked priest Martin Luther and the horny English king as heroes.

    Enjoy Hell, Protestant apostate.

  2. Course you guys have that defrocked priest Martin Luther and the horny English king as heroes.

    Silly Clownist. We Presbyterians squirted holy seltzer at both of them, too.

  3. why stay in a church whose beliefs are so inimicable to you?
    It’s fairly simple. The Gay agenda is to force society to declare homosexuality as “normal”. The Catholic Church is just another obstacle . The activists in this movement will not settle for mere acceptance. That’s why gay “marriage” is so vital to their cause. Civil union just doesn’t confer the same aura of legitimacy.
    If you don’t like the rulebook, rewrite it.

  4. They can have most of what the church offers, theologically and symbolically, in the Episcopal church. Heck, in the right places, they can have an openly gay bishop. Kermit is right, they want to remake the church in their own image. Maybe they should consider that it would be a lot easier the other way around; people do it all the time.

  5. why stay in a church whose beliefs are so inimicable to you?

    Liberal Facism. You try to force others to conform to your views. If they don’t, you try to destroy them.

    It is odd, that they are trying to change a 2,000 year old world wide church to match their views, instead of just leaving. I mentioned on the other thread that I left a very liberal Lutheran church instead of trying to force them to stop paying for the abortions of their employees, or try to convince them to accept Israel’s right to defend themselves.

    As someone said, I’d rather be in a church that is 500 years behind times, then one that is 5 minutes behind popular trends and is huffing and puffing trying to keep up.

  6. Chizzuck said: “As someone said, I’d rather be in a church that is 500 years behind times, then one that is 5 minutes behind popular trends and is huffing and puffing trying to keep up.”

    Kinda like your politics.

  7. i really agree with you here, Mitch. There are churches everywhere that believe totally different things. There has to be one or two per person per city probably that more accurately reflects each person’s doctrinal beliefs.

    i’ve gone to three almost completely different churches, demoninationally, over the last 23 years, and i’ve seen people in each of them where i wonder what it is that keeps them there, since they don’t agree with what is being taught, and *generally* aren’t contributing anything to the church either.

    Nothing witty to say here. Just that i agree with you 100%.

  8. I see RT Rybik and two other elected officials were protesting at the church. Whatever happened to the so-called seperation of church and state? Should elected types be dictating what a church teaches? Wonder if RT will be protesting at any mosques. Does RT think the Catholic church is the official state church and therefore he can tell it what to preach?

  9. One of my all-time favorite conservative writers, Florence King (The Misanthrope’s Corner, National Review), summed up my thoughts on this topic:

    “Now, a word to Catholics who would follow the dictates of their consciences instead of the dictates of the Vatican. Congratulations, you’re Protestant. Practice your singing, and remember to say “gambling” when the pollster asks you which sin you hate the most.”

    Joe Doakes, Como Park
    .

  10. Pingback: Shot in the Dark » Blog Archive » The Good Republican (As Of May 3)

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