“Prog” columnist looks at the statute and the evidence, concludes Kyle Rittenhouse will likely be acquitted.
I don’t disagree – and find that there’s ample grounds for caution for all the rest of us that take the Second Amendment seriously.
I homed in on these two passages:
When [the first “victim”, Joseph] Rosenbaum, who was unarmed, finally cornered Rittenhouse, he grabbed for the teenager’s gun. Multiple shots rang out, and Rosenbaum fell, mortally wounded.
Did Rittenhouse have a reasonable belief under the circumstances that if Rosenbaum got his gun he would suffer death or great bodily harm? Jurors in Wisconsin are instructed that “reasonable” means “what a person of ordinary intelligence and prudence would have believed … under the circumstances that existed at the time.”
And this bit here:
A third victim, Gaige Grosskreutz, 26, of West Allis, Wisconsin, who survived, first held up his hands in a gesture of surrender at a distance of a few feet. In one of his hands, he held a gun. But when he “moved toward” Rittenhouse, prosecutors said, Rittenhouse fired, striking him in the arm.
That final shooting “will be the most serious problem” for Rittenhouse at trial, Kling said. ”The guy did have a gun in his hand. But he wasn’t pointing it at or threatening Rittenhouse.”
My first carry permit instructor, the last Joel Rosenberg, used to put it this way: “You’ll be making a life-or-death decision in a split second, likely under incredible stress, in the dark, with incomplete information. The prosector will have weeks and months in a warm, well-lit building, protected by metal detectors and deputies, to decide whether you were right”.
Another of Joel’s sayings: “Shooting in self-defense is a choice between losing your life, and ruining it”.
Because while there’s a lot of rhetoric about deterring the madness, to say nothing of resisting it, it’s still incredibly risky, and under normal circumstances – and even some garden-variety extraordinary ones – best avoided:
Overwhelmingly I hear from the professionals that their plan for dealing with riots and mayhem is “Don’t be there.” Check the ego. Back away from the social media siren call to “be part of the solution.” Inserting yourself into a riot (AKA “war zone”) where we now know there are armed violent criminals (often felons) who are there with the expressed intent to do extreme violence to someone is, in my view, just foolish.
It’s said that good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement. I sure have found that to be true a lot of times. In flying, we say you have a skill bucket and a luck bucket. You hope to fill your skill bucket before using up everything in the luck bucket.
For your consideration.
Good post with a sensible message. If I may present, as you wrote, for your consideration, a response with a Jesse Kelly twitter thread (threadapp link here). I believe JK is running for congress in TX.
Been thinking more about the Kyle Rittenhouse situation and reaction to it from many on the Right. We need to have a major adjustment in our thinking moving forward. MAJOR adjustment.
Now, I understand why there was such a negative reaction to what happened.
1. He’s 17. Considered a “minor” by many. We live in an overly feminized society now. We just do. And women out there see him as their own little Aiden, Braydon, or Jaydon.
2. It was on video. That’s what really changes things. It’s one thing to hear about some child rapist getting a new ear hole. It’s quite another to actually SEE it. Violence is quite an adjustment for those who have never seen it.
3. People on the Right are generally more kind and like to think of their movement as being peaceful and nice.
This is all wrong. All of it. And your thinking had better change. Quickly.
“He’s a child.”
Stop with that. Stop. 17 year old men have fought and died for nations since time began. Jack Lucas (Medal of Honor on Iwo Jima) was diving on grenades for his friends at 17.
“It was on video”.
People, the coming troubles will all televised. All of them. What do you think putting down violent Leftists looks like? Do you thinks it’s decided in the halls of Congress? Or a game of Pictionary?
This is how it looks.
“But we’re peaceful!”
Yes, we are. And we should be. But cowering while Leftists kill people and destroy businesses is not “peaceful”. It’s servitude. Don’t use your desire for peace as a shield. And don’t demonize someone out there trying to stop it.
You think there’s a nice way to win this. I wish you were right, but you’re not. The “nice” way was BEFORE the Right laid down and let them take over every cultural institution. The Leftist tree has deep roots now.
We all want to live in a peaceful, safe country. But that’s a bumper sticker. That’s not a solution. The Leftists will stop their violent ways or we’ll be forced to meet them.
Lastly, if you’re mad at a 17 year old man for going to guard a business from being destroyed, you’re mad at the wrong people. Why did he have to? Why weren’t these violent riots put down months ago?
Societies seek a balance. If law enforcement is not given the freedom to put these violent riots down, then someone else WILL step up. It’s a fact. Vacuums get filled.
That’s all.
I was trained (conditioned really) to move to the sounds of the guns. A couple of years running around Baghdad helped reinforce that.
Generally, in times of distress, good people want to be where the action is, and help out. I hear gunfire now in my immediate area (NE Minneapolis), and I don’t feel a need to run towards it.
So yes, I’ll be avoiding things as best I can. Another interesting take on the opposing forces is here. https://www.americanpartisan.org/2020/09/antifa-reality-check/
I endorse the “stay away” rule. It is my practice, and I’ve eliminated virtually all reasons for going into Minneapolis and St. Paul from my life. Still, you have to realize that – if you haven’t been paying attention to the news and doing proper sit-rep – you might turn a corner in your car and find yourself in a “protest”. You could also be sitting at an outdoor cafe and suddenly have a group of the overfed oppressed accost you and eat your lunch in more ways than one.
If I’m at a cafe and someone asks me to raise my fist in support of BLM, I’d like to do a Steve Rogers, “I don’t think I will.” I have better odds of success just staying out of all risky zip codes.
Thanks for that link, smh.
I am one who generally keeps away from bad neighborhoods and riots, but I have to wonder whether at a certain point, men of honor are going to need to step in when the police do not. The alternative, it seems, is for far more cities to resemble the city of Gary that I avoided when young–and still avoid today.
Night Writer – your point is a good one. There you are just trying to stay away, and go about your daily life, when you get confronted. I’m guessing many of you follow the adage, or have at least heard it of “Be polite, be professional, and have a plan to kill everyone in the room.” But, it’s something I’m trying to teach the younger generation I’m around. It doesn’t have to be a plan to kill. It’s having thought through different scenarios, and how you’ll respond.
It’s that sort of assessment that has me staying away from any large crowd. A year ago, my thoughts would be “if this happens, I can do nothing to remove or protect myself” Now, it’s not if something bad happens, it’s when. I’ve been tear gassed, tazed (it hurts, and I’ve never seen someone not cranked/high fight through it), and beaten enough for one life – I’m going to sit this one out as best I can.
The article linked by shakingmy head is compelling and frightening.
The author is a combat veteran who is considering employment as a police officer in Portland, who goes to check out the city to see if it’s as bad as people say. He concludes it is not . . . it’s WORSE.
It’s not just a bunch of kids running around with firecrackers. It’s not just a bunch of aging hippies in tie-died shirts waving signs. It’s a sophisticated, coordinated guerilla military operation. They take advantage of the useful idiots, but are not, themselves, idiots.
That is not good news for me. Even if I wasn’t terrified of guns, I live in an ordinary house in a residential neighborhood. It’s not fortified and cannot be. I’m not part of a team of armed men willing to stand on the line. My neighbors don’t have deer hanging in the garage, they have Biden signs on the lawn. If I did end up shooting some “youth” who was about to throw a Molotov cocktail through my window, the police would arrest me and John Choi would charge me with murder. My wife would have to flee the house because the mob would come back to burn it down while I sat in jail.
I have seen a couple of videos and analysis of both the Rittenhouse incident and the murder of Aaron Danielson. It was pointed out that both of them were targeted and stalked by their attackers, using military urban warfare tactics. Reinohl even admitting that he was a former military contractor. He had lookouts on either side of him, as well as someone on drag behind him. The description of the attacks and the tactics of the attackers, relayed in the article smh posted, reveal the same type of coordination. It’s not just luck or imitation from video games, either. If these people are basic citizens that are being paid to riot, at least some of them are veterans or they are receiving some military training from someone.
Joe D – your point about a fortified house takes me back to when Mitch discussed a get together about that. I started thinking about ballistic hardening. We used an e-glass/kevlar type plywood in Iraq that didn’t take up much room. Looked into it, and it’s about $1500 for a 4×8′ sheet. Well, that’s out of my price range. How about replacing the front railings for 6″ of sand sandwiched between plywood? Well, it’s a lot cheaper, but is putting about 1.5 tons of additional weight on the porch. So, unless I want to totally rebuild it from the footings, that’s out. Still was able to do plenty to slow down someone getting in, but when it comes to ballistic protection, it’s going to cost quite a bit.
Boss – There may be military types on the OPFOR (Opposing Forces), but I would put money that few of them are combat arms types. With the exception of Spenser Rapone, I cannot think of a single one. Having said that, the skills required for the assassination of Danielson aren’t that tough to teach. The OPFOR aren’t all idiots, and there’s plenty of information out there. Get together a bunch of folks that have played team sports, spend a week drilling (or even a couple of days), and put them to work.
shakingmyhead – I didn’t know those options existed, but they’d be useless to me even if I had the money. I have picture windows in the living room and kitchen, windows in every bedroom, access windows to the basement, ordinary asphault roof shingles, and the lawns around here are maybe 30 feet from the street which is too close for a moat or a free-fire zone. The place would be a nightmare to defend from gunfire or from firebombs.
My plan is to flee to Wisconsin where I have in-laws. The key is leaving early and taking along the right stuff for an extended stay. I halfway started a bug-out bag some time ago but lost urgency. Now I’m thinking of an INCH bag, or maybe pre-positioning supplies over there (brass and lead weigh a ton, as I’m sure you know).
It kills me to have to think this way. I’m an old man. I’ve lived a full life. If the Covid gets me, well, that’s God’s plan. But I can’t see sitting here waiting for a bunch of pissant socialists to get me just so they can burn down everything the generations before them worked so hard to build.
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Oops, used the s-word. Moderation. Dang. Try again:
shakingmyhead – I didn’t know those options existed, but they’d be useless to me even if I had the money. I have picture windows in the living room and kitchen, windows in every bedroom, access windows to the basement, ordinary asphault roof shingles, and the lawns around here are maybe 30 feet from the street which is too close for a moat or a free-fire zone. The place would be a nightmare to defend from gunfire or from firebombs.
My plan is to flee to Wisconsin where I have in-laws. The key is leaving early and taking along the right stuff for an extended stay. I halfway started a bug-out bag some time ago but lost urgency. Now I’m thinking of an INCH bag, or maybe pre-positioning supplies over there (brass and lead weigh a ton, as I’m sure you know).
It kills me to have to think this way. I’m an old man. I’ve lived a full life. If the Covid gets me, well, that’s God’s plan. But I can’t see sitting here waiting for a bunch of pissant dictator-wanna-bes to get me just so they can burn down everything the generations before them worked so hard to build.
Joe,
Good points. Pre-positioning about a years worth of survival food, clothing, other necessities and barter items, would be a great idea. You are also on point regarding leaving early, too. I would also counsel you to be familiar with every route that you can use to get there and exit if you have to. That’s what my brother and I did for our family bug out place. Every time we go there and come home, we take one of those routes, both in daylight and at night.
Joe – I came to the same conclusion. Which is when I started talking to neighbors. Turn the area into a fortress (aka neighbors houses are the moat). There’s some interest, but many still think protests are peaceful or that police will arrive.
Thankfully, a couple local businesses have a motorcycle club stay overnight. They patrol the area, and were chasing outsiders away in early June. Maybe they can get a snowmobile club this winter.
Regarding the pre-positioning/cache, I’d encourage it. Took a look at what I have, and what to take with. Not having a horse trailer, it would take a few trips, since I’m not sure anything is left upon returning.
Didn’t know if you gentlemen had seen this video of the Spokane Sheriff concerning Antifa and arresting their members. Much good intel on the members mixed in with it.
https://youtu.be/hWgE_Lmi8VQ
Very good. Thanks, Bookem