Shot in the Dark

Minimum Brain

After years of exhorting (in the editorial pages) the government to jack up the minimum wage, as well as trying to push city governments to adopt “living wage” standards, the Strib notes that only a tiny, shrinking minority actually works for the minimum wage:

“I was working two jobs near minimum wage,” [a high school kid working at a coffee shop]  said. “But I just quit my second job at Godfather’s Pizza to work here.”

By state law, Javalive’s owner, Ken Beck, is required to pay his employees only $5.25 an hour. But Beck has found that he needs to offer more to attract good workers in a tight market.

All the more reason to keep the economy humming, right?

Good thing the DFL tax hikes got rejected.

But I digress:

Beck isn’t alone. Only a tiny fraction of Minnesota workers would be affected by the planned increase in the federal minimum wage, which would be phased in by the summer of 2009. And the share of those affected has been dropping steadily.

“They may run out of here with $10 an hour” once tips are included, Beck said. “To a certain extent, all the hoopla about the minimum wage is a moot point. In Faribault, you couldn’t hire anybody paying it.”

In early 2006, only about one in 12 jobs in Minnesota paid less than $7.15 an hour — a dime less than the new federal minimum wage approved by Congress this week, according to a state government analysis.

The share of workers in comparable low-wage jobs in early 1998 was nearly one in five.

“Wage inflation has made the minimum wage less and less relevant,” said Steve Hine, labor market information director at the state’s Department of Employment and Economic Development.

A few years back, Barbara Ehrenreich wrote “Nickeled and Dimed“, in which she spent time working at three minimum wage jobs to try to show her upper-middle-class, Volvo-driving, alpaca-wearing friends and readers exactly how awful the minimum wage life was.  As someone who was grindingly poor for a while (in 1991 my then-wife and I together made about $18,000, with one kid and another born late in the year), the book rang very phony to me; Ehrenreich didn’t live like a minimum wage worker, she lived like an upper-middle-class, Volvo-driving, alpaca-wearing, Whole-Foods-shopping liberal in a “poor person” Halloween costume.  And, phonier still, she scarcely touched on the two great truths of adult minimum wage workers:

  • For the most part, they move beyond minimum wage fairly quickly, as they learn their job and develop some skills
  • Those that don’t move up usually don’t due to some impairment (drugs, booze), bad choices (involvement in crime and the corrections system) or just-plain-choice (people who work at poor non-profits and marginal industries).

So after years of advocating for a non-solution to a non-problem (societally speaking), it’s nice to see the facts come out.

Finally.

Posted

in

by

Mitch Berg

Tags:

Comments

34 responses to “Minimum Brain”

  1. nate Avatar
    nate

    If nobody works for the minimum wage, then why would raising it matter?

    Because several major union contracts provide that employees shall make no less than X multiplier of the minimum wage (depending on job class and seniority).

    Never forget that DFL stands for democrat, farmer and LABOR meaning organized labor meaning union contracts.

    Democrats take back Congress and the first (and pretty much only) thing they accomplish is to raise the federal minimum wage? Why is that? Because they’re so doggone worried about poor people?

    No. To take care of their friends in Big Labor. Every union man just got a raise.

    Never mind that higher labor costs in unioninzed industries make American-made products less price-competitive against imports, which will result in more plant closings and layoffs. The union would rather have one man working for a “fair” wage than have 100 men working for a dollar-an-hour less.

    .

  2. RickDFL Avatar
    RickDFL

    “Because several major union contracts provide that employees shall make no less than X multiplier of the minimum wage ”

    Care to name the contracts? This is a common right-wing talking point against the minimum wage, but I can not find a single actual union contract that sets pay as a multiple of the Federal or state minimum wage. I can not imagine to many workers would accept a union that had not gotten them a pay raise since 1994.

  3. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    RickDFL said:

    “I can not imagine to many workers would accept a union that had not gotten them a pay raise since 1994”

    Please read again, carefully this time, what you quoted:

    “employees shall make no less”

  4. RickDFL Avatar
    RickDFL

    Troy:

    What is you point?

  5. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    RickDFL:

    My point is you have none.

  6. RickDFL Avatar
    RickDFL

    Troy:

    OK- You don’t think I have a point. Usually people give a reason for making such a claim. You quoted a the phrase “employees shall make no less”. How does that rebut either of my points: a. union contracts rarely if every tie member wages to the Federal or state minimum wage and b. workers would be unlikely to support any such contract since the Federal minimum wage has not changed since 1994.

    If raising the minimum wage would translate into contract raises for union workers you would think the AFL-CIO would mention that fact prominently on their web page. See if anyone can find it:
    http://www.aflcio.org/issues/jobseconomy/livingwages/index.cfm

    Nate is just making up a “fact” to back his position.

  7. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    RickDFL:

    Your point (a) is unsupported by you (though on the other hand nate’s point is also unsupported), unless you count “not finding it on an AFL-CIO web site”. I don’t.

    Your point (b) doesn’t relate at all to the situation since nate never said the wage was tied to minimum wage. A multiple of minimum wage was put forth as a floor for union wages, and that is all. It can’t hurt, and could help, so why not have that language in your union contract? It isn’t supported, but it isn’t refuted either, and in fact not addressed by you at all. *shrug*

  8. carmelitta Avatar
    carmelitta

    It would be nice if they translated “a tiny amount” to actual numbers. If so many are making more, why do we have welfare? Seems unnecessary. After all, all you have to do is get a job waiting tables and you’ll probably get 10.00 an hour. Good grief.
    10.00 an hour won’t pay your bills either guy.
    Nickeled and Dimed – that was such a joke and it makes me laugh every time someone brings it up. The Working Poor by David Shipler is closer to the mark by far, but even then, it goes deeper.
    The implication of this crazy article is that if someone isn’t working or works for minimum wage dey mus be shiflus an wothlus. There is a huge disparity (sorry Mitch but there obviously is) economically in this country and it’s getting worse. Minnesota’s denial of it is pretty ridiculous. There is also the futility of going after jobs that will get you 8.00 an hour when you know you need twice that to survive.
    You could say, well thats something. Okay, all you out of work guys with full college degrees….ever been on the beach? Did YOU go after those jobs? Kinda doubt it.
    If you did…anyone ever tell you you’re overqualified?
    Rotten article. So one dimensional and trite.

  9. carmelitta Avatar
    carmelitta

    Oh yeah, before someone jumps me for “not getting it”, I get it fine. Why bring up the minimum wage if people are paying more anyhow? Nobody rrrreeeeaaaaallly works at those rates anyway because Minnesota is so nice. Talk to a waitress. YES THEY DO. On a bad night, they AREN’T bringing in 10.00 an hour. And, fella working at Javaline or whatever it was in the article. I’m soooo sure he’s just fine on 6.50 an hour. SO fine that he could quit his second job at a pizza place. Must be great living at Mom and Dads, or having them pay your rent and tuition.

  10. buzz Avatar
    buzz

    You dont get it. The idea is that the vast vast vast majority of people making minimum wage dont make it very long. They move up and make more. Dont like working two jobs that pay minimum wage? Stop slacking off and work harder. I am sure the guy working $6.50 a hour isnt doing fine. I am also sure he isnt locked in at that wage the rest of his life. If thats your logic, then why not make minimum wage $20/hour? Then your coffee guy will be making $40K a year. Of course, that job wont exist long, neither will the coffee shop. I made minimum wage of $2.35 a hour for 3 months back in 1978. Moved to Mcdonalds for another 15 cents a hour and that was the closest I have been to minimum wage since. Nice thing is that at some point you dont have to live with Mom and Dad or have them pay your rent and tuition. Find someone who makes minimum wage long term and I will show you someone who has made a number of bad decisions along the way.

  11. carmelitta Avatar
    carmelitta

    Buzz,
    Never been outta work eh? Remarkable. You must be proud. Doesn’t matter if you’re there long. Read Shipler’s book. It will explain everything.

  12. buzz Avatar
    buzz

    When did I say I was never out of work? I have had 7 jobs in the last 20 years. I lost a job in a merger, I lost a job when the company went under, I lost a job right after Y2K since the company over extended. My current job just outsourced a number of co workers jobs to another country. The difference is that I didn’t whine about it and ask the government to intercede for me. I found another job. If you want to work and can pass a drug test, you can find a decent job in this country. Your might have to move, but there are jobs there.

  13. carmelitta Avatar
    carmelitta

    Buzz, you have cut to the chase. I know that if I WANT to work, I WILL find a job that will provide for my family in SHORT ORDER. Variables and complexity are for morons.
    If you are working at minimum wage for any length of time it is a reflection on your character.
    Do you do Mission Statements?

  14. buzz Avatar
    buzz

    Oh for Christ sakes.
    1. a handful of people make minimum wage for a long period of time.
    2. EVERYONE ELSE move up from their own efforts.
    I assume there is a reason you put words in my mouth, it makes your point so much easier to make.

    The reality is there is work out there. Your reality is you want the government to deliver the work to you so that you are not inconvenienced, and you want to make good money right off the bat, screw all those people that had to work for what they have, you want it now.

    “I know that if I WANT to work, I WILL find a job that will provide for my family in SHORT ORDER.”
    Well, if you can support your family on $14-$16 a hour, you bet. Of course, your going to have to expand your job search, and quite possibly move to the job.
    Now if your smoking dope every day, probably not. If you got a felony on your record probably not. If you blew off highschool probably not. Otherwise, yeah. If you expect it to come to you, probably not.

    If you are working at minimum wage for any length of time its because either you really really like that job, or you are basically unemployable. Or you are making a trade off of going to school rather than focusing on work.

    http://www.epionline.org/studies/epi_minimumwage_05-1997.pdf

    There you go. Educate yourself. This should help you with those variables and complexities you are concerned about.

    Or you can continue to distort my statements. Whichever you prefer.

    .

  15. carmelitta Avatar
    carmelitta

    Nothing to distort Buzz. Why would I educate myself when I have you to tell me the motivation and totality of everyone’s circumstances are. I must fit into at least one of them.
    Buzz my issue with this is not that I think you are narrow, but that you are typical of someone who has never been truly kicked to the curb. I would bet that you have had your share of trouble. I would also bet by the pride you relay in your words that you had good luck with a good effort. Unfortunately, alot of people put out a good effort or I could even guess, an astounding effort and they do not have good luck.
    To complicate it, life’s schedules continue, and people fall behind. I know people who are educated and hold good jobs, but are still recovering financially from being unemployed or underemployed.
    Variables matter Buzz, and they can come from any direction. Along with all of the feel good, work hard American dreams, we tend to forget or disregard alot more that people overcome that also make me proud. These are not formulated quick fixes, these are people who don’t fit the profiles you base your attitude on. Unfortunately, not looking deeper causes alot of people unnecessary pain, humiliation and frustration. There is no need for that. It drives the powerful. Pride.
    Economic disparity is a broader and deeper problem than what you’ve described, and I am all for raising the minimum wage. People who work should be paid a decent wage.

  16. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    Economically speaking, what about raising the minimum wage will help people earning low wages? There is nothing magical about capital. It does not grow on trees, and employers only have so much they can and will dedicate to paying employees. Is fewer, but better paid, employees what you want? Because if that is true, you realize you want to put more people out of work. And so more people will be “kicked to the curb” because we can’t find a better solution than “raise the minimum wage”.

    See:

    http://www.yaf.com/minwage.shtml
    http://www.theopenmind.tv/tom/searcharchive_episode_transcript.asp?id=494
    http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2051
    http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1749
    http://www.freetochoose.net/article_1.html
    http://www.ideachannel.com/Friedman.htm

  17. RickDFL Avatar
    RickDFL

    Troy: Neither you or nor anyone else on this blog has been able to produce any evidence of a major union contract where a wage floor, a wage rate, or any other benefit is tied to the minimum wage. Nor can any of you produce any evidence of anyone advocating to raise the minimum wage in order to trigger contract raises or any other contract benefit for union workers. In fact I can not even find any responsible conservative organization arguing against the minimum wage because it would trigger union contract raises or benefits. That is pretty much proof positive that such union contracts exists only in the delusional fantasy world of you and Nate.

    As for your foray into economic theory: “There is nothing magical about capital. It does not grow on trees, and employers only have so much they can and will dedicate to paying employees” You should look up the concept of “productivity”. A more productive worker can produce more output per unit of input. Raising the minimum wage will give more incentive to both workers and employers to increase worker productivity. That means means higher wages for workers, better profits for capital, and more goodies for consumers. The U.S. needs a higher minimum wage and laws to make forming a union easier in order to raise the per hour productivity rate of U.S. workers to levels equal to the major Euro Zone countries.

  18. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    RickDFL:

    Your bar for “proof positive” is rather low. It makes it relatively easy to discount your opinion.

    Your economic theory enters the world of the magical at “A more productive worker can produce more output per unit of input”. I think there are limits to productivity. Don’t you think so? Even if there were not, the end product of that productivity must be sold, and so even unlimited productivity has limited utility.

    We need more unions like we need more potholes. If we get Euro Zone level productivity, do we get their other financial statistics as well? Probably. Aim higher please.

  19. RickDFL Avatar
    RickDFL

    Troy: The ease with which you discount my opinion reflects less on my lack of proof and more on you lack of intelligence. Put another way, a casual stroll through the internet will give you more people who claim to see ghosts and UFOs than people who have seen these magical union contracts you and Nate imagine. (By the way, you notice how no one is coming to your defense on this issue, even Nate has stayed quiet on the sidelines). What more proof could I offer that they do not exist?

    Of course there are limits to productivity growth (although I can not tell if you even understand or accept the basic concept), but the greater per hour productivity of Euro zone workers, suggests the U.S. has come nowhere near the the practical limit.

    Which Euro zone statistics do you want to avoid?

    their longer life spans
    their longer vacations
    their greater economic mobility
    their higher energy efficiency
    their trade surplus
    their stronger currency

  20. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    RickDFL:

    Blah blah blah you’re dumb. Nice argument.

    I have never stated there is indeed a union contract with that language included, nor do I truly care. I simply stated the fact that you can’t find it 1) on one web site, or 2) anywhere else you look, is “proof positive” of nothing. You don’t seem to comprehend what you yourself quote, so I guess I should not be surprised that you misunderstood what I wrote as well. Oh well.

    I said financial statistics. Do you really have that much trouble reading? I think you may. Longer life spans? Longer vacations? Higher energy efficiency? You are obviously an economic genius, RickDFL, and I am not. Please expound on and support your “the US should emulate Europe” economic theory. I won’t get in your way, or question your ability to read, or point out any glaring inconsistencies in what you write. It would be pointless.

  21. RickDFL Avatar
    RickDFL

    Troy:
    “Blah blah blah you’re dumb. Nice argument.”

    It is not an argument, it is a conclusion.

    “I simply stated the fact that you can’t find it 1) on one web site, or 2) anywhere else you look, is “proof positive” of nothing”

    Again, what in your book would count as “proof positive” that they do not exist? Anyone can claim their opponent has failed to meet a standard of proof, if they do not tell anyone what that standard is.

    Without using a measure of life expectancy please, calculate the costs of things like life insurance and pensions or project likely sales of walkers and Florida condos. Without average vacation length, please calculate overall labor man hours available to the economy. Without a measure of energy efficiency please project the power needs of a new factory and its likely impact on local energy costs. You would be hard pressed to have an economic model that did not measure all three.

    I suppose like most right-wingers you just object to the idea of empirical evidence in general.

    How about this financial statistic. Over the last ten years the annual return on European Stock Index has beat the U.S Stock Market Index 11.19% to 8.66%.

  22. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    Good job, RickDFL!

    Don’t slow down now, you’re on a roll! 🙂

  23. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    “I suppose like most right-wingers you just object to the idea of empirical evidence in general.”

    Do you have any empirical evidence that “most right wingers object to the idea of empirical evidence”? Or are you just jawin’ again?
    There’s an old hippie guy who lives a few blocks from me. He’s got all kinds of anti-Bush, anti-Iraq-war sentiments. He also believes that bees on the US mainland are making the hexagons in their honeycombs larger so they can get better signals from the space dudes. He heard it on Art Bell! It must be true!

    There is no “based on empirical evidence” political party. We’re all inmates in the same madhouse, RickDFL.

  24. RickDFL Avatar
    RickDFL

    Terry:

    Thank you for reminding us that human folly comes in all shapes and sizes. The DFL, like any group of human beings, certainly has a healthy heaping of lunatics – PRT and IRV anyone. But while the DFL has it’s colorful oddballs, the GOP is dominated by major constituencies dedicated to empirically false propositions e.g. evangelicals say evolution is false, the energy industry denies global warming, neocons say Saddam helped Ossama attack the WTC, and the insurance industry says private insurance, not a public social welfare program, is a more efficient way to provide health care. Take away those folks and there is no GOP.

    But that is a larger argument and this is not my blog.

  25. carmelitta Avatar
    carmelitta

    These are all just great arguments. However, what has any of it got to do with you? Nothing probably, but a great deal to someone going through it. Troy, you don’t need to condescend to me by pointing me to informational websites. How rude.
    There are many many circumstances where people are not stupid, unambitious, immature or lazy that are working at minimum wage and would like to earn a little more. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask that you be able to buy a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk after working for an hour. You can’t do that on minimum wage. They also take out taxes. There are reasons for unemployment that have no negative connotation attached. For example. INJURY. DEATH. CARING FOR A SICK PERSON. BEING SICK. Any number of things. You dont get unemployment for ANY of them. For me, my injury happened only 1 month after permanent hire. No benefits. At all. Didn’t qualify for assistance because of the previous months of work. The assistance programs don’t exist pretty much now and Fed program regs don’t include alot of people. People fall through the cracks. You know, after I was able to go back to work, I was still months behind on my bills. Almost evicted as well. Getting a job that is simpler for whatever reason is hard because you’re “overqualified”. Getting a job you are qualified for is competitive. As I recall, just a few years ago we had a huge unemployement problem here in MN. There are more than a few people who wanted those minimum wage jobs. Not only that, but jobs that paid more, pay less now. One company just laid off a bunch of people with the promise that they might be hired back after X amount of weeks if they would agree to work for less money. GAG. Freaking disgusting.
    I’m serious. Read Shipler’s book. It will help you “get it”.

  26. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    carmelitta,

    I apologize to you for any offense you felt from my words, but I do not regard links to informational websites as condescension, any more than I view your book recommendation as such. They were included to further express my point of view.

    I think you have a worthy goal in mind, I just don’t think raising the minimum wage accomplishes that goal. I sincerely do have sympathy for people less fortunate than I, and for that reason I do not wish to have policies implemented that will cause them more harm than good. I accept that my opinion could be wrong, but it will remain my opinion until I am convinced otherwise.

    I will consider buying (and reading) David Shipler’s book, and so I have added it to an Amazon “wish list” I use. I do wish you would look at the links I provided, not so that you “get it”, but so you may see why my opinion is what it is.

  27. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    RickDFL:

    I see that someone is “dedicated to empirically false propositions”, but it isn’t the GOP. :-/

  28. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    RickDFL-
    In every case you mention — non-believers in evolution, neocons, the energy & insurance industries — the people would say they were guided by empirical evidence.

  29. RickDFL Avatar
    RickDFL

    Terry:

    People who believe in UFOs, ghosts, and astrology often ‘say’ they are guided by empirical evidence too. It does not matter what they ‘say’, it matters what they do.

  30. Bill C Avatar
    Bill C

    Which Euro zone statistics do you want to avoid?

    How about their unemployment rates?

  31. RickDFL Avatar
    RickDFL

    “How about their unemployment rates?”

    Not a big deal. Overall, in terms of percentage of adults working the Euro 15 did a lot better than the U.S. in the last ten years. Between 1994-2005 the U.S. Labor Force Participation Rate fell 1.3% to 75.4%. The LFPR for the Euro 15 increased 4.8% to 71.3%. Europeans are entering the workforce because work is rewarded, Americans are leaving the workforce because work is not rewarded.

  32. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    So unemployment rates are not a big deal?
    And the LFPR is a big deal?
    A comparison between Europe and the U.S. is both complicated by the calculation of many complex variables AND can accuratelybe represented with one number over an arbitrary period of time with no context?

    I am disappointed, RickDFL. Maybe you aren’t the economic genius I thought you were. 😉

  33. RickDFL Avatar
    RickDFL

    Troy:

    Yep it is a a big and complicated world out there. Weighing evidence is a complicated and difficult process. Thus, a person of your modest intellectual means is probably best off simply to skip the whole reasoning bit and to keep on believing whatever you want. If you tried to correct your beliefs by looking at evidence, you would probably just make matters worse.

  34. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    RickDFL:

    I am sure your world is very complicated, and that many tasks are difficult for you. You have my pity.

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.