First things first: Kenneth Lilly, the security guard alleged to have shot the bus driver on 35W the other day, has been charged with attempted murder, among other things.
And it’s seem, from watching the video, to be a fair cop. To use a gun in self-defense – we’ve been through this before – you need to satisfy four criteria in the state of Minnesota:
- You can’t be the aggressor.
- You must reasonably fear immediate death or great bodily harm.
- You must only use the force necessary to end the threat.
- You must make a reasonable effort to retreat.
You need to satisfy all four of those criteria (unless you’re in your house, in which case only “only” need to check off the first three.
This will be for a jury (or, more likely than not, the defendant, his lawyer and the judge) to decide – but it looks like Lilly blew 1, 2 and 4 completely.
Of course, those who get their “information” from local gun-grab scolds “Protect” Minnesota will get a version of events that would make Baghdad Bob wince with Schadenfreud.
Where to start with this – words fail me – horsecrap?
“I’m afraid I might get killed, now” is a part of every legitimate self-defense claim. No exceptions! It has nothing to do with “Stand your Ground”, which – thanks for nothing, Governor Goofy – is not the law in Minnesota anyway.
But the law doesn’t require that you “feel afraid”. The law requires that you “reasonably” fear death or great bodily harm – and by “reasonable”, we mean “an investigator, prosecutor, judge or jury believes it”.
Invoking “stand your ground” means either the writer – almost certainly the invincibly ignorant Reverend Nord Bence – doesn’t know what she’s talking about, or she doesn’t really think it matters if her audience doesn’t get the truth or, and this is my bet, both.
It’s almost a Berg’s Law.
Interesting that since 2009, drug overdoses have killed more people than vehicle accidents, wth deaths by assaults with firearms, is way behind. In 2017, over 72,000 people died from overdoses, 37,000 in motor vehicle accidents and less than 13,000 from assaults by firearms.
Yet, the left and the lame stream media only prattles on about gun deaths, because neither of the other two causes fit the left wing narrative.
I don’t care about the case, that will sort itself out in the courts. I care about the lies. They do far more harm, in the long run.
One of the tactics Liberals favor is bait-and-switch. They ask you to vote for birth control, knowing that most people interpret the phrase to mean condoms and The Pill. But then they insist you voted for abortion right up until the moment of birth and maybe a few minutes after. They ask you to vote for Equal Opportunity in employment, knowing that most people interpret the phrase to mean selection on merit alone. But then they insist you voted for Affirmative Action to give preference to less well qualified but better politically connected applicants.
Nancy’s doing it here. She asks her audience to oppose the Stand Your Ground defense, knowing most of her audience equates that phrase with “Kill Black Children.” But if they do, she’ll insist they voted for comprehensive gun control right up to banning private ownership of firearms.
She must know the truth about Minnesota gun law, she’s had plenty of time to learn it and no shortage of critics correcting her misstatements. Yet here again, she’s intentionally misstating the existing law to argue in favor of enacting a different law.
Making a false statement of fact with the intention that another person be induced to act on the deception, is a LIE. Seems to me there’s a Commandment about that. A person who goes around calling herself Reverend ought to know that, too.
On one level, Nord-Bence ought to be rebuked for speaking as if something was in Minnesota gun law that really wasn’t, and for ignoring 3 of 4 actual provisions of the MPPA. She’s also doing a “great job” ignoring the central question of whether the perp even had a permit to carry; it is clear he didn’t learn from the class if he took it. Nord-Bence also lies by saying he’s claiming “stand your ground” instead of self-defense. Articles I read said nothing about SYG.
At another level, the security guard who shot the bus driver also is one who had no prior significant arrests, and would fly through any background check out there. He also, despite some apparent anger issues or something, got through the hiring process. He’s the guy who still has a gun if the Democrats get what they say they’re asking for.
One side note; perhaps Bence is referring to “stand your ground” not because the defendant actually tried to invoke it, but rather because she’s afraid that juries will start to nullify the duty to retreat portion of the MPPA because it’s too ambiguous, and because if applied quite literally, would lead to a person’s inability to defend loved ones and such.
But back to the central point Joe makes, yes, “Rev.” Nord-Bence seems to have some serious issues with “Thou shalt not bear false witness.”
Nancy believes she’s doing the Lord’s work. She may have the wrong lord in mind.
As I’ve said before, “Everyone wants to speak for God. Nobody wants to listen to Him.”
That guy is a moron. Lot of security guards are morons.
I have a good friend who runs a private investigative service in MN. Part of his business is providing security guards, and he has given up on arming them.
One of his employees shot himself in the leg while screwing around with his pistol on duty, and 1 was arrested for pulling his pistol on unarmed, juvenile hood rats who were giving him lip, but not really threatening him. The liability insurance became untenable.
Apparently Mr. Miller is the poster child for permit to carry. Not only protecting himself on the freeway, he also has demonstrated experience as “a good guy with a gun”. What’s not to like?
http://www.startribune.com/man-charged-with-shooting-wounding-school-bus-driver-on-minneapolis-interstate-appears-in-court/505575502/
Emery,
So do you have any evidence that the Broadbent shooting wasn’t justifiable?
You know – something that the frothingly anti-gun Saint Paul Police and Ramsey County Attorney’s office might have missed?
Because if not, your aspersions are hereby cast back into your face, like one of Amy Klobuchar’s binders.
And we’ll pick our own poster children. Thanks.
MBerg: you protest (project) too much.
My point is the interesting twist the story has taken. He appears to be both; an irresponsible permit holder while at the same time being “a good guy with a gun” (St Paul).
And another thing: why does she get to be called Reverend when she’s off the clock doing political lobbying instead of spreading the Gospel? I strongly suspect it’s a subtle attempt at the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy. The implication is that as a Reverend, her opinion is entitled to more weight than mine, a mere gun owner.
Enough of that. I am an ordained minister with credentials issued by the Universal Life Church ($5, order online). I duly filed my credentials with the local Vital Records office and as a result, under Minnesota law, I’m equally as empowered as she to solemnize marriages, and actually have done a couple. I have every bit as much right to be called Reverend as she does. Plus, since on this issue my opinion is correct and also conservative, I should get an enhanced title.
From now on, when discussing gun control, I insist on being addressed as The Right Reverend Joe Doakes. Please make a note of it.
“Minnesota’s Mr Right Reverend”.
Has a nice ring to it.
Huh. Let’s apply Emery’s “logic” to the cases of police officers who are accused of unjustifiable force after an apparent flawless career. Any takers?
Oh, why not? Maybe because people change, and sometimes we don’t know the whole story?
Lilly does now come off as a George Zimmerman type, which is not flattering. Doesn’t mean, like Zimmerman with Martin, Broadbent didn’t deserve to get shot.
I was pleased to stumble upon your posts about the “reverend.” I sent you a message via the “contact” page but haven’t heard back. Would welcome an exchange about Nord Bence’s latest shenanigans. As you may or may not be aware she’s part of the June 29 “White Coats Boot Camp,” a gun violence deal sponsored by the AMWA. I emailed the org to caution them against aligning too closely with the reverend, but it’s sure to fall on deaf ears. Anyway, happy to strategize a continued campaign to delegitimize Nord Bence, so get in touch if you’re so inclined.