A Gratifying Outburst Of Common Sense

The heads of both the Minneapolis and Saint Paul police unions went on the record with their views on gun control…

…and suffice to say, I don’t think either of them will get getting invites to lunch with their cities’ DFL elites.  But their statements were heartening; someone involved in the city’s political class gets it:

“Stricter gun laws are not the solution for officers on the street, or the general public, because the bad guys will find new ways to get those weapons anyhow,” Kroll said.

Kroll said the officers his union represents are frustrated because they are making arrests for illegal guns and gun-related crimes, but the offenders are often back on the street committing the same crime in a matter of months.

This jibes with what I’ve heard; the Cities’ DFL leadership plead away gun charges partly out of convenience, and partly to avoid giving gun rights groups a win to point to.

“We need to put these habitual offenders away for a long time and not give them chance after chance after chance, which just puts officers and the public at risk,” he said.

But we’re not.  As we noted a few years ago.

The whole article is worth a read.

18 thoughts on “A Gratifying Outburst Of Common Sense

  1. The Chair of the African-American Leadership Council quoted in the story blames gun violence on poverty, lack of mentorship and lack of jobs. I can’t do anything about mentorship, but every candidate for St. Paul Mayor will Fight for $15.

    Could raising the minimum wage reduce gun violence?

  2. A while ago, I read an article that said St Paul employers were having trouble finding responsible people to employ. These were for entry level positions paying low wages.

    Of course, while I started working in St Paul 17 years ago, I was a college grad working for 8.50 an hour. There were no jobs in my field. My colleagues refused to work for that amount. Wages for the job I did haven’t changed in 17 years. I think the potential hirees haven’t either.

    I’ve always believed if there were more business growth, natural competition for quality employees would raise wages. But, it seems like the quality employees are able to make do without working somehow, more and more, as are the bad employees. I hear many of the same comments from Millennials as from my colleagues- that wage is an insult, I might as well not be working. Not that raising the minimum when will change that, though it might make it more expensive to live, there by encouraging more people to get a job.

    But, there are probably other means to that end that don’t involve affecting business owners.

  3. Some good and some bad. They’re pointing to a failure to punish, which is good, but ignoring unwed parenting, which is the root cause of a lot of this. All kinds of things change when you’re bound for life to someone else, most of them good.

  4. Here’s an odd train of thought . . .

    “Lack of mentoring” was mentioned as a problem leading to gun violence. “Mentoring” means providing a positive role model, teaching by example. Who is the obvious person to be the positive male role model in a young man’s life? His father. Why isn’t that happening? Because if Dad is living in the household, Mom and the kids don’t qualify for government help and nowadays, with illegal immigrants willing to work for peanuts, families can’t make it without help.

    After Democrats in Congress in 1964 changed immigration law and also created welfare, border jumpers stole the jobs, welfare broke up the families, children grew up fatherless, and un-mentored youth turned to violence. Thanks a bunch, LBJ.

  5. QUOTE: I’ve always believed if there were more business growth, natural competition for quality employees would raise wages. But, it seems like the quality employees are able to make do without working somehow, more and more, as are the bad employees. I hear many of the same comments from Millennials as from my colleagues- that wage is an insult, I might as well not be working. Not that raising the minimum when will change that, though it might make it more expensive to live, there by encouraging more people to get a job.

    Never ending 2% GDP causes social problems.

    Whenever central banks blow bubbles or generate CPI inflation, it causes social problems.

    Man does this to himself over and over.

  6. Kinda threadjack, but goes along with a flying pig moment from the police union. The moron police detective who abused his authority by roughing up a nurse in Utah had been fired. Good riddance to bad rubbish. We all need more common sense. Now, if we only could get some common sense into teacher’s union as well.

  7. Happy anniversary, NW and RM! Isn’t the 30th the anniversary where the wife gives IPAs and ammo to her husband?

    Joe, the interesting thing is that the downturn in marriage rates, especially among blacks, began around 1950. I would assume a lot of this has to do with war brides figuring out their Prince charming wasn’t so charming a few years after their soldiers returned (or vice versa), but one other interesting correlation is that it’s about the time that black soldiers would have been getting their degrees under the GI Bill and starting moving north and west with the second Great Migration. In doing so, they moved away from the social structures–churches, social clubs, etc.–they’d enjoyed while young, and I presume they got lonely and did what lonely people do everywhere.

    Not that LBJ avoids blame altogether, but it seems that there are other things going on, too.

  8. I heard that guy WAS subject to blood tests on demand because he had a commercial drivers license. Not saying that’s the whole story.

  9. Mitch, I think that the comment from Kroll has to be understood in more context. He may feel “criminals will always get guns” but he likewise said they are seeing (and we’re seeing nationally) more guns which are being confiscated are possessed illegally (ironically that illegal possession is violating a gun control law of some sort – like that felons can’t have guns – that’s an aside – not the point here) – the point is, much of the gun purchasing done today by “criminals”/gangs is from straw buyers, buyers who transport guns into cities (like Chicago or St. Paul) and sell them. While a law prohibiting possession won’t be followed, much more enforcement and stricter controls on how people are able to buy while avoiding background checks, would very likely have an impact on the availability of illegal guns to those gangs and with that, to the accessibility of guns overall. I suspect very much that Kroll (and his brother and sister officers) would be very interested in any such laws. It appears DOJ under GW Bush concurred.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

    Incidentally, and in alignment with another post of yours from that same page, quoting a study in Lancet (so the source isn’t Wikipedia – you can follow the link in the article)..In 2016, a study published in the Lancet reported that state laws only requiring background checks or permits for gun sales at gun shows were associated with higher rates of gun-related deaths. The same study also found that state laws that required background checks for all gun sales were strongly associated with lower rates of gun-related deaths.[77] – I think this statement is a little misleading but it still makes the point. States with lax background checks relate to higher rates of gun violence, those with more thorough checks correlate to lower rates of gun crime. Note CORRELATE, not cause, but the correlation is both strong and deep (meaning much data and much history).

  10. Fed:

    Wubbels told the officers that they could not draw blood from the patient unless they had the patient’s consent, a warrant, or a valid reason to arrest the patient.

    Payne responded that he would “leave with blood in vials or body in tow” when he dragged Wubbels from the hospital and placed handcuffs on her. Wubbels was not charged with a crime and was released.

    If there was a valid reason, it apparently was not provided.

  11. TFS, what JPA says. Implied consent still requires the police to provide a reason for the taking, per the 4th Amendment. In this case, you would still have to demonstrate that he had a CDL–which would require a look in his wallet–which would require a warrant. Given that the actual criminal had gotten himself killed, I doubt many judges would require more than five seconds to rubber stamp the request.

  12. As I understand it, Driver A is drunk and runs into Driver B, who is injured and taken to the hospital. Cop shows up wanting to take a blood sample from Driver B to prove he wasn’t also drunk. Nurse explains that’s not how implied consent works – only the suspected criminal’s blood can be taken, not the victim or bystanders. Cop gets testy, hospital administrator confirms nurse’s opinion, cop arrests nurse and also threatens to use his official position to divert patients to a competing hospital, to punish this hospital for her insolence. City Council does nothing for months until video goes viral.

  13. Joe’s description is how I understand the situation, too. Scary that nurses and hospital administrators, people who theoretically have a lot of other responsibilities besides law enforcement on their to do list, seem to have a lot better understanding of the law than do many officers.

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