Joe Doakes from Como Park emails:

Should the United States military ever be used against United States citizens on American soil, even to restore civil order?

We’ve heard for years about plans to occupy cities, black helicopters, urban warfare, the Vigilant Guard 2010 drill, FEMA camps in the desert, and much more.  Say it’s all true – is it okay?  Should we care?

 I suspect the Founders would have said “Not just No, but Hell No.”  They were opposed to a standing army because they knew the politicians in charge of that army would be tempted to use it for political purposes. 

 But there also are times when civil order breaks down and ordinary people cannot fend for themselves, when they expect government to step in to restore order.  George Washington led troops to break the Whiskey Rebellion when the nation was only a few years old. 

 Okay, but those were state militia, not regular federal troops, and states often call up the National Guard to restore order, so that’s different.  Except the National Guard was federalized a while ago (that’s why the Minnesota Red Bulls were in Iraq).  So there’s no meaningful difference between the part-time state militia and the regular standing army, when you’re the one being disarmed and told to report to a federal holding area “for your own safety.” 

 Add to that, the courts have totally ignored the stated reason for the Second Amendment as articulated in the Federalist Papers – to resist a tyrannical government – and the fact that civilians are forbidden to bear arms comparable to those of the standing army whose tyranny we’re supposed to resist, and it’s beginning to look as if the Founders were right to be concerned. 

 But I still want someone to help restore order, if we need it. 

 It’s a conundrum.

 Joe Doakes

I’m a lot less worried about the military imposing tyranny (outside of epochal circumstances).   Especially in re the classic 2nd Amendment red herring about “fighting tanks with AR15s”; the people who the feds will be trying to disarm will be the same class that are doing the dirty work – the children of rural and exurban blue-collar families of all races.

Federal law enforcement?  I’m a lot more concerned about them.

12 thoughts on “Conundrum

  1. Joe – thanks for bringing this up. For once I can contribute something versus feeling like a knucklehead. If you ever want to start discussions about making distilled spirits, I’m pretty knowledgeable on that as well.

    National Guard operates primarily under Title 32.. That’s the weekend drill, annual training, and some schools. It means they are not federalized, they are under control of the governor. However, it is federal funds that are paying the bill. When they are deployed to Iraq (as an example), or sent off to initial (Basic and Advanced) training, they are under Title 10, which is federalized. They are, for all intents and purposes, active component troops. The Army Reserve is Title 10 even for weekend drills.

    I’m going to leave out the fun part of being deployed title 10 and having title 32 people send an order to you. Not valid. Can’t be done. However, you’re going to be title 32 again some day, and there are long memories.

    Ok, back on track. There is also SAD – State Active Duty – for National Guard. This is where you become a state employee. Times you’ll see this used are: flood fights, RNC 2008, and other disaster recovery. The Guard can be loaned out to other states in this role (Katrina, NoDak flood) under the EMAC (Emergency Mutual Aid Compact). Key thing is that the Guard is never the one in command/control of the overall situation. They may have the training, and possibly better suited. But, they are not the overall commanders. It is also how you’d primarily see National Guard used in the situation you described.

    Now, the Posse Comitatus Act prohibits the active component Army from enforcing domestic policies. So, legally can’t bring in title 10 for that. Even operating in title 32 would be iffy. Active component has been used in disasters – again in Katrina, as well as Navy divers brought in when the 35W bridge collapsed (and promptly got sick when they didn’t follow Henn Co dive teams advise about decontaminating after getting out of the river). MSCA (Military Support to Civilian Agencies) is the term for this. There is a pretty big vetting process for these to be approved.

    Bottom line – the Guard can be federal, but then it’s as illegal as sending in active component. And, if there was a “go round up all the guns” order from Gov Jim Bean, I’m pretty sure there’d be a lot of sickness, unable to report, and the most half-assed searches that have ever existed. In addition to more than a few direct refusals due to illegal orders.

    The Guard is the best course of action in this situation, because they live in the community. Maybe not that specific one, but they are still Minnesotans. Versus bringing in the 82nd Airborne, which may potentially view it as yet another deployment to a hostile climate.

  2. State militias need to be de-federalized. I ache to see the circus California would field.

  3. until cities are literally burning like in 67-68 this cannot even be brought up. Sorry not touching this. Radioactive political stuff here

  4. Head Shaker – I’ll take you up on that distilling offer, but not in this post. Thanks for clarifying the jurisdictional challenges (well, making them less murky anyway).

  5. I’m joining the OBK crowd. When the local authorities call for federal support, me and my homies are going to camp out inside of Burger King’s and demand a free federal lunch. Or – else!

  6. /Statement by President Donald J. Trump, Friday, July 6, 2018.

    My fellow Americans:

    Our nation remains in a state of shock over Wednesday’s horrifying, horrifying attacks. We again offer our deepest sympathies to the families of the victims at this time of unimaginable grief.

    But as our shock and horror turns into anger and determination, we know that we owe these families more than our sympathies.

    Since my first days in office, I have issued many Executive Orders related to immigration and national security. Several of these Orders were blocked by the decisions of activist liberal judges. A few of those decisions were ultimately upheld, in part, by the Supreme Court in votes as close as 4-to-4. 4-to-4! Split decision.

    The investigation of Wednesday’s attacks is still ongoing. But it is already clear that the attackers never should have been allowed into the United States. In fact, had my Executive Orders been in full force, this atrocity would not have happened and those children would be alive today. Alive! Right now.

    Now, I have the greatest respect for our Judiciary. No one respects our Judiciary more than I do, believe me. But their first duty, like mine, is to protect the rights and lives of American citizens. American citizens, first and foremost. Some judges have forgotten this duty. I have not.

    Therefore, effective immediately, I am reinstating and expanding all of my previous Executive Orders regarding immigration and national security. I am directing all federal agencies to ignore any ruling by any court — any court — that blocks, delays, or interferes with these Orders in any way.

    I do not take this action lightly. I fully understand the gravity of this situation, both for our government and for me personally. But I can not — I will not — allow our children to be sacrificed on the altar of globalism. I will not allow our citizens to remain in danger because a few activist judges think the so-called “rights” of non-citizen terrorists are more important than our children’s lives. Can’t allow it. Not on my watch.

    In addition, I call on all members of Congress — especially those up for re-election this year — to state publicly and clearly where they stand on this issue. The American people have a right to know, and they have a right to express their own views loud and clear at the ballot box in November.

    This is it, folks. The security and future of our country is at stake.

    May God bless you, and may God bless these United States of America./

  7. Right, and later today Kellyanne Conway will deny that national security adviser, Michael Flynn was ever in the Trump administration and that he bravely died in the massacre of Bowling Green. ;^)

  8. Some truths really are simple, and sometimes brevity really is the soul of wit.

    Yet again, in your own words yet, you are devoid of any wit, never mind soul.

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