Shot in the Dark

Impropriety

Joe Doakes from Como Park emails:

Suppose someone dropped off their real estate documents and I said “I’m very busy right now, I won’t be able to get to them for a couple of weeks.  Unless you wanted to paperclip $100 bill to the documents, then I’d be willing to stay late to get them done today.”  Would there be howls of protest over me abusing my government position to put money in my pocket?

 Suppose an off-duty cop gets pulled over for speeding, shows the on-duty officer his driver’s license and oh, just incidentally flashes his badge.  The obvious intention is that the on-duty cop will not write the off-duty cop a ticket, to save the driver embarrassment and also $100 fine.

 Putting $100 in my pocket or keeping $100 in his – they’re both corruption, using an official position for personal enrichment.

 Of course, not all cops are corrupt just as not all Muslims are terrorists and not all Blacks are criminals and not all . . . yes, yes, we know that.  But we also know for certain that some cops are corrupt except – and here’s the really important point – we can’t tell who they are.  A few known bad apples make us suspect the entire bunch may be rotten so the rational conclusion is to treat all of them as if they are rotten.

 Lawyers talk about avoiding even the appearance of impropriety, so as not to cast suspicion on the entire legal profession.  Cops don’t seem to understand the concept. The instinct is for cops to band together, to circle the wagon to protect the Thin Blue Line, to denounce their critics as ignorant, to absolve themselves of technical wrongdoing despite what appears on the video.  That does nothing to solve the problem that cops appear to be corrupt, appear to be using their positions to put themselves above the law.

 The Black community already hates cops.  Politicians no longer reflexively support cops.  Middle class mainstream America sees video of cops beating or shooting people and are beginning to lose confidence. What happens when the bulk of society no longer believes cops are trustworthy but instead begin to view them as armed gangs, not much different from the Crips, just different gang colors?

 A professional public police force is relatively recent, invented by Robert Peel in London in 1829.  What did society use to keep law-and-order before the Bobbies?  And if the public decides the police are now hopelessly corrupt, what will replace them after they’re disbanded? Vigilance Committees made up of ordinary citizens, armed as necessary to protect their families, homes and neighborhoods? 

 Behold the wisdom of Federalist 29.

 Joe Doakes

There’s a reason you can’t find a Federalist Paper in a public school anymore.

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16 responses to “Impropriety”

  1. Dog Gone Avatar
    Dog Gone

    DG,

    Alas, you’ve gone back to your old habits – making snide, dismissive, condescending claims that your facts (“ironically”) can’t support, and scampering away, thereby using my comment section as a metablog.

    I told you I wouldn’t tolerate it.

    So this time, in addition to needing you to start discussing the claims you make in my comment section, I’m going to need some answers from you.

    • You recently claimed you’d been “published” in the London School of Economics’ blog. I’ve asked you repeatedly; the “publication” was actually just a link to one of your articles on “Minnesota Progressive Project”. Am I correct? If not, please provide a link, either publicly or privately to me. it appears you are trying to stretch five pounds of bag over ten pounds of reality.
    • Another: many years ago, you claimed that Salem Twin Cities was in imminent danger of being sued into receivership, because of a scam being run by one of its paid programs. You made a big show of it, in fact. You made a big show of how one of your neighbors – an expert in corporate law, but naturally nobody we could talk to, of course – backing you up on this.
      . So – whatever became of that? That was at least seven years ago; any updates?
    • In 2012, you claimed that Rep. Cornish’s “Stand your Ground” bill – which passed both chambers of the legislature with a bipartisan majority – was “crap legislation”. When asked to substantiate the claim beyond the level of opinion, you provided some stats that, in fact, proved that Stand your Ground was excellent legislation that did exactly what I said it would; you just didn’t know any better. So – please either substantiate your claim with actual facts (and be prepared to defend your defense!), or admit you were talking out your ass

    I could find a lot more, but I have a life.

    God bless ya, DG, but I’m calling BS on you.

    ——–

    That doesn’t appear to be the case Doakes.

    “The Black community already hates cops. Politicians no longer reflexively support cops. Middle class mainstream America sees video of cops beating or shooting people and are beginning to lose confidence. What happens when the bulk of society no longer believes cops are trustworthy but instead begin to view them as armed gangs, not much different from the Crips, just different gang colors?”

    I would argue that poor communities, regardless of ethnic makeup, experience both over-policing and under-policing. However it has been shown that changes in a variety of factors fully under the control of our society can dramatically resolve those problems. In those communities, ALL people distrust police. That is because too often there is a rigged system where there is a lack of accountability. However there are plenty of communities with large numbers of people of color that don’t experience that problem.

    Using race to define the problem is a mistake, a racist mistake, part of the conservative premise that black people are more criminal, commit more crimes, including violent crimes — something I’ve heard and seen claimed on the right in many places.

    Chris Uggens, Distinguished Professor of Sociology and Law, U of MN, someone who actually studies – i.e. DOCUMENTS / QUANTIFIES – these problems was on Almanac recently discussing this question. He noted that there is a very slight difference in the commission of crimes by race, with African Americans only very slightly higher than other groups, but that while the crime difference is small enough to be negligible, the sentencing differences are enormous, and get progressively worse. Fix that and you go a long way toward ending antagonism to the legal system and improving cooperation and support for it.

    Sorry your understanding of history Doakes does not extend past 19th century Peel and the COPs (constables on patrol). I suppose I should be happy you have that much knowledge of history.

    The function of the sheriffs, a contraction of shire reeves, predates the Norman Conquest, providing law enforcement. Some versions date back to the 9th century AD, and there were variations of that even earlier under the ancient Romans and among other ancient civilizations. It would be pedantic to list them all here; what matters is that there have pretty much always been law officers in place of vigilantes.

    Since I no longer expect conservatives to read, I hope you find this a short but informative alternative.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR8UTkr5mX8

    Happy I could enlarge your education.

    There is zero chance that anyone will approve or allow vigilantes btw; they are illegal, in spite of being a conservative wet dream.

    ——–

    The fact that you’ve never responded to any of your comments being whited out tends to confirm you’re “pooping and running” again. That’s not really OK.

  2. nerdbert Avatar
    nerdbert

    There are valid reasons why cops tend to put their license next to their badge. Nearly all cops carry off duty, and FBI agents are actually required to do so (you can, and frequently are, disciplined if you’re found NOT carrying — which makes crossing the border something to be juggled). As such, it’s a way of alerting the cop to not panic if they happen to glimpse a firearm non-verbally, since there are times when you don’t want to announce you are law enforcement and carrying. It dates back to the dark may-issue days where carry was far less common and when actually announcing you had a gun was frowned upon. That it gets tickets waived is a side benefit that few complain about.

    As for circle-the-wagon mentality, it’s sad but almost required. Those that deal with the worst sort get many groundless revenge claims (which is one of the problems with requiring personal liability insurance). Even then, most cops can relate to something going south and making a bad decision and are all too willing to cover up something for someone who they might need covering their back in the future. Changing the culture is something that will prove hard unless you manage to make it so that cops turning in bad cops is without risk to the informant.

  3. Dog Gone Avatar
    Dog Gone

    DG,

    “Afraid to post what I wrote?”

    Don’t flatter yourself. Everything you googled wrote is included. But I have had enough of your “poop and run” habits. You can either stick around and discuss your inevitably facile claims, or I’m going to continue to point out to the reader your long history of fabulism with every comment you make.

    Your choice.

    So this time, in addition to needing you to start discussing the claims you make in my comment section, I’m going to need some answers from you.

    • You recently claimed you’d been “published” in the London School of Economics’ blog. I’ve asked you repeatedly; the “publication” was actually just a link to one of your articles on “Minnesota Progressive Project”. Am I correct? If not, please provide a link, either publicly or privately to me. it appears you are trying to stretch five pounds of bag over ten pounds of reality.
    • Another: many years ago, you claimed that Salem Twin Cities was in imminent danger of being sued into receivership, because of a scam being run by one of its paid programs. You made a big show of it, in fact. You made a big show of how one of your neighbors – an expert in corporate law, but naturally nobody we could talk to, of course – backing you up on this.
      . So – whatever became of that? That was at least seven years ago; any updates?
    • In 2012, you claimed that Rep. Cornish’s “Stand your Ground” bill – which passed both chambers of the legislature with a bipartisan majority – was “crap legislation”. When asked to substantiate the claim beyond the level of opinion, you provided some stats that, in fact, proved that Stand your Ground was excellent legislation that did exactly what I said it would; you just didn’t know any better. So – please either substantiate your claim with actual facts (and be prepared to defend your defense!), or admit you were talking out your ass

    I could find a lot more, but I have a life.

    The ball remains in your court.

    ———-

    It was on point. Let’s start with what I wrote here.

    Doakes misrepresented crime generally and feeling towards cops specifically.

    Crime is down, including in predominantly black neighborhoods. That negates the notion that somehow there is going to be rampant vigilante justice.
    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/five-most-absurd-defenses-melania-trumps-plagiarism-michelle-obama?utm_medium=email&utm_source=botb&utm_campaign=rightwingwatch

    Btw, in spite of the recent police targeted shootings, deaths for law enforcement overall have had a steady decline. Which argues that there is less antipathy towards them than claimed, especially when there is ample evidence of protesters cooperating with police during their protests, not harming them.

    Yes, it was a link that was published at London School of Economics; no, I don’t believe there has been a follow through against Salem, however they have lost a lot of their reputation for selling their air time to people like those on Strom’s show who are rip off artists praying on conservatives, and it is still possible that some future litigation might take place. As to the specific case I mentioned, it was abandoned when the plaintiff died of cancer, not because of a lack of merit. Many of those who were ripped off with the cooperation and apparent knowledge or at the least, indifference, of Salem were very old or ill, or struggled to have the resources to launch effective litigation. That does not alter the fact that one of the top class action suit law firms had undertaken suit on the behalf of the Affinity Scam victims. I supplied one of the attorneys working on that suit with data on the wealth management web sites that the criminals tried to scrub but that I had located on the web site of their web site developer.

    Cornish’s bill was lifted almost word for word from ALEC legislation that was total crap. Are you incapable of looking at the ALEC legislation and the Corny legislation side by side? It is unlikely it would have withstood legal challenge, which all by itself makes it crap, but the fact that it was a straight ALEC submission does so as well.

    I don’t read your stuff often enough, past one quick perusal, to see any questions you repeatedly ask. However, as I HAVE REPEATEDLY NOTED HERE BEFORE, if you really want a response from me, you DO have my email, and I DO check that daily, and will respond. I can only concur that you really DON’T want a response, but this is your way to appear to ask for one while ensuring you don’t get one.

    I hope you enjoyed my response to one of your question about disappearing Y chromosomes. Now I’m going to go back to watching the lecture series on paleoanthropology, with the fascinating focus on the use of molecular genetics, the difference in mutations for characteristics under selection and those genes which are not under selection, etc.

    Doakes has been consistently lacking in facts in a way which is racist. But seriously — you’re afraid of a video showing how sheriffs have been law enforcement going back to the 9th century? Sheesh.


    ———-

    You have this terrible habit of posting BS, larding it up with a bunch of unearned condescension, and scampering away.

    We shred your BS for sport. Unearned condescension has no sting – it’s just rude and pointless and makes you look like a buffoon.

    It’s the scampering away that’s the problem. This is not your blog.

    I welcome discussion, even abrasive discussion. Emery, Angryclown, RickDFL, even Penigma are welcome, and I don’t alter their comments at all – because they participate. They don’t poop and run!

    Try it!

  4. Dog Gone Avatar
    Dog Gone

    PREFACE FROM MITCH: See how easy this is, DG? Just participate in a discussioon, rather than leaving your inevitably factually-vacant posts here and scampering away, and I’ll stop whiting out your comments!

    Although you still owe me two answers: When is Salem Twin Cities going to get sued into oblivion (according to your “lawyer neighbor”), and how, objectively, was the Stand your Ground bill, which passed with a bipartisan majority, “crap”, since we pretty much showed your first “answer” proved MY point, not yours.

    OK. On to DG’s – ta daaaaa! – RESPONSE!

    ——–

    Ooops! Here is the link that gives the lie to the dire fear mongering of Doakes, the one showing that crime is NOT the problem he would present it to be such that cops would act like Crips, vigilantes, blah blah blah.

    http://www.citylab.com/crime/2015/09/violent-crime-rates-still-declining/408103/

  5. Dog Gone Avatar
    Dog Gone

    No, you don’t shred a damn thing. You can’t shred facts. You don’t have facts on your side.

    FYI, LSE is apparently a regular reader of MNPP; mine was not the first post for which they published a link and comments. I’m guessing they don’t read you. Because of the logic and fact failures.

  6. Ian in Iowa Avatar
    Ian in Iowa

    I don’t read your stuff often enough, past one quick perusal, to see any questions you repeatedly ask.

    Interesting. A bit hypocritical, nay? Posting reams of verbal diarrhea, but can only deign to give others’ comments “one quick perusal”. That’s not a dialogue, that’s a lecture from atop a soap box. You near as admitted that you’re afraid of a differing point of view!

    However, as I HAVE REPEATEDLY NOTED HERE BEFORE, if you really want a response from me, you DO have my email, and I DO check that daily, and will respond.

    Sorry, but what entitles you to special treatment? You are in effect saying your time is more valuable than the others commenting on the posts, Mitch included.

    I can only concur that you really DON’T want a response, but this is your way to appear to ask for one while ensuring you don’t get one.

    Leaving aside that you seem to love to draw conclusions from selective “facts”, you seem incapable of making your arguments with logic, preferring condescension, generalities, hyperbole, stereotypes, etc. It isn’t because your arguments lack logic and you’re compensating, is it?

  7. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    I think you know what I mean, DG. Other than whiting them out, I don’t change your comments. I just make sure my objections about your habits are known.

    So you admit they published a “link” – not an article. That’s NOT how you put it before – or, to put it your way, “the facts are not on your side”. I could call it “misrepresentation”, but that’d sound a little too angry.

    OK – that’s one question answered. Two more to go.

    I’d like to suggest you go through the last couple years of comments; the other residents here have shown pretty much every comment to be jampacked with “logic and fact failures”.

    If the LSE reads MNPP – the place that put the fever in “Minnesota Liberal Fever Swamp” – it introduces a lot of questions.

  8. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    I don’t read your stuff often enough, past one quick perusal, to see any questions you repeatedly ask.

    Then go back through every single comment you’ve left in the past week. Including at least one in every thread you “quickly perused” today. I’ve asked the questions probably 6-8 times.

    However, as I HAVE REPEATEDLY NOTED HERE BEFORE,

    Don’t recall you noting it, and it doesn’t matter, because it’s my comment section. Not yours.

    I can only concur that you really DON’T want a response

    Wrong. As usual.

    Ball is again in your court.

  9. bikebubba Avatar
    bikebubba

    Pinata time. Doggone claimed that there was only a very slight correlation of crime to race, as backed by an unlinked study by one Mr. Uggens, “distinguished” professor at the U. of M.

    Answer: FBI statistics.
    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-43

    Honestly, DG, can’t you do better than that? Whether or not your source actually wrote what you claim, you should know that the FBI has a convenient way of checking these claims out. And if he did, we have one too many sociology professors at the U.

  10. bikebubba Avatar
    bikebubba

    Note; regarding DG’s Salem Radio Network claim, if indeed there was a pattern of defrauding listeners, as DG claims, it would have been a class action lawsuit and could NOT have been derailed by the death of a single complainant.

    If indeed something was filed, she could, you know, provide a link–it is public record–but all in all, such a lawsuit with a single complainant probably isn’t going anywhere, as it’s more or less the same kind of personal attack people like DG specialize in. A great reason for “loser pays” legislation, but nothing of note about Salem.

  11. Joe Doakes Avatar
    Joe Doakes

    I didn’t read any of the grayed-out stuff (that’s a nifty feature, Mitch, thank you). Did Dog Gone rebut any of the points I raised? Anything I need to respond to?

  12. swiftee Avatar
    swiftee

    “Yes, it was a link that was published at London School of Economics”

    Oh. So the FACT is, you’re a LIAR. And since this is not the first time (vis the ridiculous claim to have had 100,000 hits to an article you published, the one I publicly shamed you for in City Pages comments), you are a prolific and continually practicing LIAR.

    Thanks for clearing that up, you miserable, lying reprobate.

  13. swiftee Avatar
    swiftee

    “Now I’m going to go back to watching the lecture series on paleoanthropology…blah, blah, blah”

    This penchant for mendacious self-aggrandizement is classic behavior from someone with extremely low self esteem. It is a symptom of a much deeper mental disturbance that we can be sure manifests itself in many other self destructive ways in her day to day life.

    It is a pity that dog doesn’t have someone in her life that cares enough about her to get her some help, though honestly, not that I give two shits about her either.

  14. swiftee Avatar
    swiftee

    Joe, there was, of course some inchoate twaddle directed at you, but BikeBubba dispatched that light work very neatly.

    Like to see dog refute the FBI statistics he PROVIDED A LINK to. Actually, it’s just as handy to let it sit on her plate steaming..

  15. CommonSense Avatar
    CommonSense

    Curious post for several reasons.

    First it asks what society did prior to 1829 when a police force in London and ignores the fact that Sheriffs generally were the law and order in the United States. Not sure why Mr Doakes ignored that … because he conflates police departments and Sheriff offices? Or because Federalist 29 doesn’t really offer an answer to the question he raises but provides a pseudo justification to argue for the widest possible application of the 2nd amendment?

    Second, for the sake of argument, let’s assume that you live in a city or town that has its own police department. Assume further that it is hopelessly corrupt and the citizenry fears for its life, liberty and happiness because of the way the department and its officers behave and speak. Whatcha gonna do when the cops behave badly?!?

    Call your Sheriff? (Some citizens in other areas have.) Call your state’s Governor? (Again, some citizens in other states have.) Or call upon that non-regulated, anyone-with-gun “Militia for the State” you all believe supports your individual rights to bear arms?

    Consider: did that demented man in Dallas who shot and killed police officers believe himself to be acting as part of a Militia?

    Consider as well: does this train of thought then give justification for some BLM supporters to engage in Militia actions against police?

    I await Mr Doakes’s answers.

    Rick Mons

  16. bikebubba Avatar
    bikebubba

    Second, for the sake of argument, let’s assume that you live in a city or town that has its own police department. Assume further that it is hopelessly corrupt and the citizenry fears for its life, liberty and happiness because of the way the department and its officers behave and speak. Whatcha gonna do when the cops behave badly?!?

    Sounds like DC, Gary, or Chicago. What you do is work to elect a Republican, or move, of course. Half the people in the town I grew up in were refugees from Gary, many of whom simply abandoned the homes they’d had because Hatcher banned “for sale” signs.

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