Shot in the Dark

Nationwrecking

There’s a case to be made that we fought the wrong war in Afghanistan; that we should have gone in, rooted out the Taliban, and installed the best awful people have given them three steps toward the door and left in 2003.

There’s an even better case to be made that nation-building, especially in a place like Afghanistan, just can’t work.

I’m all ears.

It was America’s longest war by a fair turn, and it needed to end, somehow, someday.

But the idea that burning ithrough hundreds of billions of dollars of “investment” and just plain pouring money on the ground, and the lives of 2,372 American servicepeople, and it all ends with a Saigon moment? One our administration practically begged for, and seems unable to comprehend?

That is a little hard to swallow.

It should be, shouldn’t it?

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Mitch Berg

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162 responses to “Nationwrecking”

  1. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    Technically speaking, that “police action” in the Korea peninsula is still ongoing, but the armistice seems to have held there. That said, however, this is the perfect ending to a horribly mismanaged and ill-conceived project from Bush II ’til now.

    Btw, remember when Mr MeanTweets tried to get us out and the System fought him?

  2. bosshoss429 Avatar
    bosshoss429

    Trump had negotiated a peace treaty with the Taliban. He told them that the U.S. would pull our troops out on a gradual timeline, but also made clear what would happen if they broke the treaty. Biden, whom former colleagues have said “has never been right on foreign policy”, reneged on the treaty. Further, when the Taliban saw how Russia, Iran and China used Joey and his corrupt cabal as doormats, they knew they could act with impunity.

    General Vo Nguyen Giap, the commander of the North Vietnamese army, said in his memoirs, that the U.S. had won in 1972 and the leaders thought that we knew it. Had we continued bombing Northern targets for another week, they would have capitulated. They were surprised that we stopped, but as they monitored American media, they realized that since they were covering the protests against the war, he realized that public opinion had forced the LBJ cabal to stop bombing. Giap said that the media wad his best ally and they renewed operations.

    Conclusion: Democrat regimes have missed on foreign policy since the end of WWII.

  3. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    Imagine an Olympic figure skater who obviously doesn’t know how to skate. He tries to stand up two or three times, falling down each time. When he does finally get up on his shaky legs, he tries to skate, but falls forward, smashing his face against the ice.
    And while the farce plays out, the crowd is cheering him on. The announcer praise his every move as being graceful perfection, you are lucky to be alive to see such a performance.
    He crawls off the ice and stands up with the help of others. His face is bloodied, looks like he has a broken nose and an eye socket injury. He spits out a few teeth and smiles widely and gives the cheering audience a thumbs up as the judges hang a gold medal around his neck.
    That’s the scene I picture every time some talking head calls ol’ “Slow Joe” a “foreign policy wonk.”

  4. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    Afghanistan was the right action; Iraq was not.

    We haven’t been at “war” for 20 years. We’ve been providing armed guard service. As long as we kept a troop presence backed by air cover, the Tailban was corked up.

    The midnight exit, leaving millions of $ in military hardware to the Taliban is a goddamned disgrace. And now the Taliban has taken Khabul.

    Milley and Abrams should have told Pedo Joe to go sit by his dish, but they sold their honor for cushy jobs.

  5. bosshoss429 Avatar
    bosshoss429

    There is a reason that Gen. Lloyd Austin was chosen as Secretary of Defense, besides the two check boxes for the Biden administration, the “first” obsession and black. He’s just another black tool for the Democrats to use, under the guise of equality. I feel bad for him. I predict that he won’t last a year.

  6. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    The US been in Afghanistan for 20 years and spent trillions of dollars, our support for the Kabul government makes the Kabul government look like a puppet of a foreign power. It was the same with the government of South Vietnam.

    The only people who can sort this out are the Afghans, if they don’t want to be ruled by the Taliban they’re going to have to fight them.

  7. Joe Doakes Avatar
    Joe Doakes

    Nation-building is the latest in a long line of liberal, condescending, racist attempts to remake indigenous and persons of color into white people.

    The underlying assumption is that only nations which look like Western Civilization are worthwhile so all others should be remade in our image. What do Western Civilization nations have that other nations do not have?

    Okay, yes, safe drinking water and sanitary sewer. And passable roads, I mean obviously the roads, the roads go without saying, don’t they? But aside from water, sewer and roads . . . medical care, public education, rule of law, freedom of speech and religion . . . what has Western Civilization got that Afghanistan ain’t got? What gives us the right to impose our cultural values on others?

    It’s hateful, it is. Just hateful.

  8. golfdoc50 Avatar
    golfdoc50

    Sunk cost fallacy at work. Both political parties fell for it. As in Vietnam, the US could have gone all in and destroyed the enemy but the fallout in terms of international prestige precluded that. Senator George Aiken of Vermont had the best “solution “ to the Vietnam quagmire: declare victory and get out.

  9. Night Writer Avatar
    Night Writer

    MP – not a bad analogy, but you have to remember that it’s really slippery out there!

  10. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Twat — I’m glad we spent 3.5 Trillion on Afghanistan. Otherwise the democratic socialists would have spent it on healthcare, social security, and infrastructure. The the GOP saved us from those catastrophes.

  11. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Twat — I’m glad we spent 3.5 Trillion on Afghanistan. Otherwise the democratic soci@lists would have spent it on healthcare, social security, and infrastructure. The the GOP saved us from those catastrophes.

  12. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    MP, a better analogy is a Black Knight from Holy Grail.

  13. kinlaw Avatar
    kinlaw

    Tis but a scratch.

  14. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    The point was that Biden keeps acting as though he has foreign policy expertise, and a huge chunk of the media treats him as though he has foreign policy expertise. Supposedly Obama picked Biden as VP because of foreign policy rep. And any look at his actual record in FP shows that he was wrong on the important issues of the day. He was against the Gulf War in ‘91, for the Iraq War, but he opposed the Surge that saved our gains there. Biden was instrumental in reducing our forces in Iraq while Isis raged through the Mideast.

  15. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    Not a good tweet… Withdrawal of Soviet forces from Afghanistan preceded the fall of the Soviet Union by about two years.

    Uh-oh

  16. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    ^ Graveyard of empires.

    The rapid Taliban advance in the wake of the US withdrawal just proves to me we could have left 15 years ago and the result would have been the same.

    Whoever was president when we finally decided we’d spent enough blood and treasure there, was going to be facing the same situation as Biden. Laying the Taliban’s rise to power at his feet is ridiculous.

    From where I stand, both Trump and Biden should be admired for having the courage to say enough is enough and leave a country where the only consequences of remaining would be more death and expense.

  17. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    It doesn’t really matter if you think that Biden did the “right” thing in Iraq by opposing the surge and by withdrawing our forces in Iraq so soon, thus leaving us flat-footed when Isis began to threaten our allies in the region. The point is he was wrong. He opposed the Surge back in 2007 because he said it would fail (it succeeded). He oversaw our withdrawal from Iraq in 2011-2015 because he was wrong about the threat of Isis. Current SOS Blinken made it very clear in several interviews last year that Obama had put Biden in charge of Iraq policy, it was Biden’s show, not Hillary’s and not Kerry’s.
    And as usual, he f*cked up.

  18. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Whatever the headlines, the Taliban is not viewed as a US priority. It’s not a priority for the US because it’s not a priority for Afghans.
    They won’t even defend themselves.

  19. Ian Avatar
    Ian

    The point is he was wrong. He opposed the Surge back in 2007 because he said it would fail (it succeeded). He oversaw our withdrawal from Iraq in 2011-2015 because he was wrong about the threat of Isis. Current SOS Blinken made it very clear in several interviews last year that Obama had put Biden in charge of Iraq policy, it was Biden’s show, not Hillary’s and not Kerry’s.
    And as usual, he f*cked up.

    Prior to Uncle Joe from Scranton becoming President, I would observe to others that if a president wanted to have a successful foreign policy, hire Biden as a foreign policy advisor. And then do the exact opposite of whatever Biden recommends.

    Statistically speaking, shouldn’t he have gotten one right by now?

  20. bosshoss429 Avatar
    bosshoss429

    Better yet, we quit allowing hordes of disease carrying, low education law breakers free entry into the country and spend the $120 billion we spend on them on American citizens. Or, we could put all of the able bodied men and women (can’t leave out minority womyn, lest they complain) to work on those infrastructure projects as a condition for staying in the country.

  21. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    I’ve just received word that my friend Norris Green, of Talbotten, GA died today.

    Norris was born in Talbotten in 1956, and never traveled farther than Savannah, on his honeymoon. Norris’ parents were cotton farmers, sharecroppers until they earned enough to buy the land they farmed, and only kept the profits from cotton for themselves for a few years, when the textile industry went overseas in the 70’s and the mills closed. When cotton was no longer being grown in GA, they became yeomen farmers.

    I saw Norris Thursday last week. I always looked forward to seeing him, because no matter how bad the country was going, Norris was happy, and that made me happy. But last I saw him, he was in a foul mood; he had gotten “that shot” because his wife wouldn’t stop nagging him. “Now look here” he said, extending his arms, which were swollen and covered bumps. He said he had those bumps all over his body. He said he felt bad and was fixin’ to take some time off.

    Today, he died of “heart attack”.

    Norris was looking forward to his retirement next year. He still lived in the house he was born in, it was all payed off, of course, and he’d just bought a “new truck”, a 2012 Ford with less than 100K miles; it was nice. “Last one I’ll need” he said.

    I’ll miss Norris.

  22. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    Doctor, I just spoke with my Mexican Spanish teacher a few minutes ago. His cousin, 30s? 40s?, to be a good citizen got the vaccine. Now has Guillain-Barre syndrome. Hospitalized. Again. Probably won’t make it.

  23. golfdoc50 Avatar
    golfdoc50

    Now that the topic has changed, here’s my new beef: school district 191 has announced mandatory mask policy for the new year. I predict by October we’ll be back to distance [non] learning. Sad.

  24. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    (Has this been presented before? Sorry if so). Golfdoc, what do you think about this?

    https://tv.gab.com/channel/standonprinciples/view/dr-destroys-the-entire-covid-narrative-611132777b022aa59dd65777

  25. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    As sad as it is to hear about Norris and mexican spanish teacher’s cousin, it is a still a threadjack. Please practice what you preach.

  26. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    But before you return to your regular programming, enjoy:

    https://tv.gab.com/channel/frogtrumpet/view/trumps-doctor-dr-vladimir-zelenko-talks-6110a048c0c6aea3fc0aebdb

  27. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    @golfdoc50: ISD 191 should be mandating vaccines for teachers before they mandate masks for kids. In my extended family the kids mostly don’t give a shit about masks unless their parents are ranting about it all day at home.

  28. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    jpa: “Staaaahp threadjacking!!!”

    Also jpa: “And now, for something complete different,,,,,

    lol. You go bro

  29. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    “. In my extended family the kids mostly don’t give a shit about masks unless their parents are ranting about it all day at home.”

    And that is exactly and precisely the environment I see Hayduke in. Why don’t you invite the clan tolive in the clean air of your lake house you filthy piece of shit? You let your kin suffer?

    You’re lower that shit

  30. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    LOL, I’m just fucking with you, Hayduke….between your sister and you, there’s no room in that single wide.

  31. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    jdm, the biggest tragedy of this Dempanic is, we will never know how many died from the Communist Chinese Flu, or the vaccines.Our Government is working 24/7 against us. We can’t believe a goddamn thing they say.

    We will have to exact our revenge later.

  32. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    golfdoc, if that happens, the kids that are still sitting in front of computers next year are lost. The punishment will have to be exacted against the scumbag “parents” that allowed it….unless of course, they’re black, which would be wrong.

  33. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    I think at this point, we know that the idea that mask mandates and social distancing mandates do anything to alter the number of positive covid tests and hospitalizations/deaths is a complete fantasy.
    You simply cannot match an inflection in time-series graphs that link mask & social distancing mandates to covid cases or hospitalizations & deaths. This is for all the big countries that imposed these mandates, not just the US.
    Yet so many people, including many conservatives, take it as a given that mask and social distancing mandates are an effective way to slow the spread of covid.
    They can’t explain (at least not well) why they believe this, or even if they believe masks protect the wearer from getting the diease or spreading it to others.
    It is just a piece of @#$%^& cloth.

  34. Dr Hayduke PsyD Avatar
    Dr Hayduke PsyD

    Twat — I feel we’re making progress — just let all it out.

  35. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    “Yet so many people, including many conservatives, take it as a given that mask and social distancing mandates are an effective way to slow the spread of covid.”

    Well, that 100 IQ is just an average, MP.

  36. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    “Well, that 100 IQ is just an average, MP.”

    That being said, published research has proved 68% of leftists suffer form some mental illness, which, while not accounting for the national dysfunction, does explain a lot,

  37. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    we will never know how many died from the Communist Chinese Flu

    Also, deaths from the flu went from 9th place in 2019 to no one got the flu in 2020. Bit odd, don’t you think?

  38. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    Hayduke…why are the children of your clan suffering? Why won’t you put them up in your PRIME PROPERTIES in the fresh air?

    Oh….that’s right..everything you say is bullshit. Carry on. lol

  39. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    “Also, deaths from the flu went from 9th place in 2019 to no one got the flu in 2020. Bit odd, don’t you think?”

    Not a bit….it’s all bullshit

  40. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    ” In my extended family the kids mostly don’t give a shit about masks unless their parents are ranting about it all day at home.”

    Read that again….what a fucking shit show. What a fucking mess. Leftist degenerates screeching at their kids, who are better informed.

    The kids are smarter than the adults, but lack the power to act.They will be our future front line troops.

  41. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    Well we can now say tht we lived through a time when society went mad.
    Noe of this stuff — mask mandates, social distancing mandates, has been tried ot this scale in time and space. Ever.
    And there was never any indication, other than pure conjecture, that it would do anything but cripple the economy and cause an unknown, but large, number of social pathologies.
    Mask mandates for the vaccinated! It is truly madness.
    Now ol’ Slow Joe is talking about a mask mandate for interstate travel, which is not only useless, it is unenforceable, so they will never know if it did any good.

  42. bikebubba Avatar
    bikebubba

    Back to the original topic, it strikes me that a few trillion bucks is a bargain compared to the prospect of Al-Qaida and the Taliban being able to continually wreak havoc on the civilized world. Just sayin’.

    So while I’d argue that we probably could have done things far more cheaply in terms of dollars and lives, the whole deal reminds me, more or less, of the debate over the trillions spent on our nuclear umbrella. When we compared our freedoms and the size of our economy with that of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, the conclusion I arrived at was that the entire cost of our nuclear programs was paid for….annually…twice over.

  43. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    The Derb was right — we should have gone into Afghanistan and done something terrible, destroyed the ability of the Afghans to have a government so there would be nothing for the Taliban to take over, nothing for Al Qaida to exploit.
    Lots of death & and bouncing rubble. Bomb Kabul like we & the Brits bombed Dresden.
    I really don’t like it when pols make “That’s not who we are” arguments about values.
    We nuked two cities we knew were full of civilians. We had legal slavery for almost a century. We fought a vicious civil war to end slavery, and had a butal decade-long occupation of the rebellious states after the war. We are the only people to have flown men to the moon and back, and we defeated both the ideologies of fascism and communism.
    We are serious people. We should act like serious people.

  44. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    “Tragic mess in Afghanistan, a completely open and broken Border, crime at record levels, oil prices through the roof, inflation rising, and taken advantage of by the entire world—DO YOU MISS ME YET?” Trump said in a statement emailed to reporters.

    I miss the good Trump. I don’t miss the bad Trump. Not Trump’s mean tweets, those were entertaining, not the Trump who pissed off the establishment of both parties. I miss the Trump who could look at a shit situation and say ( I am paraphrasing) “This is a shit situation. We are doing it because it benefits the people who have wealth and power. They know they are making money by f*cking you. Together we can put a stop to it.”
    If that is populaism, we need more populism. You ain’t going to get it from ol’ Slow Joe and the ghastly people who control him.

  45. Bill Peterson's chin twat Avatar
    Bill Peterson’s chin twat

    Afghanistan is in better hands than we are

  46. Pig Bodine Avatar
    Pig Bodine

    BB & MP my thought since early 2004 was that the Uniparty President(Bush at the time) should have: 1) laid waste to Afghanistan and specifically the Taliban as an object lesson – this is what happens when you attack us, 2) then to recover the cost of the war, auction off the the country, province by province to its neighbors, 3) let them work out the details of returning the savages to civilization.
    It is what we should be doing to Venezuela, Salvador, and Cuba; conquer them then sell them off piece by piece to interested parties.
    Enough of this Nation Building™ b.s.

  47. AllenS Avatar
    AllenS

    Questions —

    How come the Taliban doesn’t have a Covid problem?

    Are they immune? Did they all get the vaccination?

  48. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    Biden’s words announcing the abandonemnt of Afghanistan:
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/07/08/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-drawdown-of-u-s-forces-in-afghanistan/

    He spoke them on July 8. They have not aged well.
    This guy is worse than Jimmy Carter.

  49. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    The time to win that war was 19 years ago. But we, uh, took our eye off that ball very quickly.

    It’s easy and lazy to blame Biden but displacing an ideology that has been in place for over a thousand years has proved impossible. Many have tried, for over 150 years.

    There are no solutions to Afghanistan (and other places mainly in the Middle East) until they stop running their lands by referring to texts written by desert dwelling 8th Century warlords.

  50. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    It’s easy and lazy to blame Biden
    So who is blaming Biden? And for what?

    Biden’s words announcing the abandonemnt of Afghanistan:
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/07/08/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-drawdown-of-u-s-forces-in-afghanistan/

    He spoke them on July 8. They have not aged well.
    This guy is worse than Jimmy Carter.

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