Shot in the Dark

Infinite Number of Decisions

Let’s make sure we’re clear on one thing; while I emphatically do not support President Obama’s policies, administration, or style of leadership, when America and its people are in jeopardy I very much do want him to succeed.  Politics is supposed to end at the shoreline; to those who’d do us harm singularly or as a nation, we should be behind the President.  I even wanted Jimmy Carter to succeed in dealing with the Iranians – I was as Democrat as a 16-18 year old kid could be back then, and even I didn’t much like him, but I wanted to know that we had a capable, responsible person at the helm.
The corollary, of course, is that the President needs to do the job.

A friend forwarded this email, from the son of a friend of his, a US Navy sailor based in Virginia Beach VA (the Navy SEALs’ east-coast home) over the weekend. I present it without edits, redacting only the parties to the email by request, adding a few clarifications in square brackets.

From: XXXXX XXXXX
To: XXXXX XXXXX
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 7:25:25 AM
Subject: A SEAL friend of the mine sent the real Somali pirate story…

…and it frankly sounds about right.  BHO is “Barack Hussein Obama”, ROE is “Rules of Engagement”, RIB is “rigid inflatable boat”, “Raggies” is ragheads (a pejorative term for Muslim terrorists)…

The account is one from a Rear Admiral Lou Sarosdy, and it’s been making the rounds on the Internet. I took the time to confirm that Sarosdy exists (he does, and ran in some pretty serious company in his day):

Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:

1. BHO wouldn’t authorize the DEVGRU/NSWC SEAL teams [The Navy equivalent of the Army’s “Delta” counterterrorism/hostage rescue group] to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.

2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn’t do anything unless the hostage’s life was in “imminent” danger

3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction
4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.
5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN [Captain] and SEAL teams
6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR [commander] finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies
7. BHO immediately claims credit for his “daring and decisive” behavior. As usual with him, it’s BS [Bainbridge Ship].

So per my last email thread, I’m downgrading Oohbaby’s performance to D-. Only reason it’s not an F is that the hostage survived.

Read the following accurate account.

Philips’ first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn’t worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country’s Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors, and none was taken.

The guidance from National Command Authority, the president of the United States, Barack Obama, had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger.

The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating craft was fired on by the Somali pirates, and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the commander in chief’s staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a peaceful solution would be acceptable.

After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he’d had enough.

Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage’s life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer, unnamed in all media reports to date, decided the AK47 one captor had leveled at Philips’ back was a threat to the hostage’s life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.

Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.

There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday’s dramatic rescue of an American hostage.

Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and [1] declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president’s toughness and decisiveness.

Despite the Obama administration’s (and its sycophants’) attempt to spin yesterday’s success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort. What should have been a standoff lasting only hours, as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location, became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship.

Biased?  Sure – military people often are when it comes to the right and wrong way of doing their jobs.  Filter accordingly (and, given the nature of the subject, at your own peril).

The President  – a guy with a paper-thin resume at everything but “community organizing”, with virtually no record even in the Senate – is new at the job…

…and that’s fine, and something “we” warned “you” about, and – let’s be fair – not really the issue here.

The Somali pirate story, which the Administration spun as a major victory and vindication of our naif President, would seem to have been more a lucky bobble that broke the right way, thanks to some commanders that knew when to creatively ignore, or at least circumvent, the President’s orders.

On how many issues will we – and He – get that lucky?

BLAH: If it looks too good to be true, it most likely is.  While “CPT Sarosdy’s” email recaps points that have appeared in other media sources, it’d appear that the email itself was a hoax.  I tried to verify this before running the post yesterday – but several rounds of Google searches on the article (looking for references to Sarosdy and searching for various parts of the email’s lede and key parts) produced no hits.

In other words; I did make an effort to verify the email before posting it. It obviously missed.

What was the term Dan Rather used?  Fake but accurate?

I apologize.


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53 responses to “Infinite Number of Decisions”

  1. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Louis R. Sarosdy, Annapolis ’51, does indeed appear to exist. But I wouldn’t bite too hard on the story, Mitch. By it’s own terms, it’s a double-hearsay report by an unknown former naval officer who’d be about 18 years beyond the Navy’s mandatory retirement age at this point.

  2. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    I’m not certain what this is supposed to mean, even if it is true. Does anybody really think BHO covered himself with glory by giving the okay to shoot the pirates?
    I don’t know if Bush would have handled it differently than Obama. McCain would have killed them himself, of course, maybe saving the smallest for Sarah Palin.

  3. Dave Thul Avatar

    Whether or not the story is true (I believe it is), it is already making the rounds in the military.

    And Angry, the letters RET after name and rank means retired.

  4. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    “And Angry, the letters RET after name and rank means retired.”

    Uh, yeah, I picked up on that subtlety Dave Tool, thanks. Even with stop-loss, Angryclown is guessing there aren’t so many active 80-year-old Rear Admirals in the U.S. Navy. Presumably he’s in some nice retirement village in Florida, where his hobbies include gumming his applesauce and slandering the president.

    (When applied to you Mitchketeers, of course, the “RET” designation simply means “Retarded.”)

  5. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    Angry Clown decided that slandering the prez was a bad thing the day Obammy took the oath of office.

  6. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    Dunno, clown. From the skimming I did, it looks like CPT Sarosdy stays pretty active.

    And when applied to the Clown’s repeated whacks that those who cross his floppy-shoed, cheap-gin-reeking path, RET means “Retreaded”.

  7. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Hey, forgot to wish you kooks a happy holiday! It’s Hitler/Columbine Day!

    :-=(

  8. Night Writer Avatar

    I’ve wondered a couple of times what would be happening right now if the shooting and rescue had gone awry and Capt. Philips had died or been severely injured. Would the as yet unnamed SEAL team commander now be as “famous” as Joe the Plumber, twisting in the wind while awaiting a court martial or reassigned to Naval operations in Iowa? I’m glad that President Obama succeeded and that we didn’t have to find out how he’d react if he failed. I hope we never have to.

  9. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    I don’t know if Bush would have handled it differently than Obama.

    Haven’t you heard? Bush would have dropped a daisy-cutter on them. He’s a warmonger, you know.

  10. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    Would the as yet unnamed SEAL team commander now be as “famous” as Joe the Plumber, twisting in the wind while awaiting a court martial or reassigned to Naval operations in Iowa?

    Oh, there’s an interesting tack.

    DEVGRU (once known as SEAL Team Six) is the ultra-hush-hush Navy counterterror unit, the Navy’s equivalent to the Army’s “Delta”. If I recall correctly (and I may very well not, although hopefully one of my military contribs (Fingers?) will chime in), nobody is ever officially assigned to DEVGRU, and their personnel are double-dog secret, all of them *officially* assigned to other units. And if that’s true, it’d make it dicey for the Adminstration to get that kind of payback.

    But look out – they’re also part of JSOC, the same group about whom Cy Hersh was spreading his conspiracy theories in the Twin Cities a few months ago.

    Connect the dots, people!

  11. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    He would have invaded New Zealand.

  12. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Mitch gee whizzed: “nobody is ever officially assigned to DEVGRU, and their personnel are double-dog secret, all of them *officially* assigned to other units.”

    Yet they apparently also chat with 80-year-old retired Naval officers and spill detailed information about operations.

  13. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    I wonder if you have to eat a bug to join DEVGRU? That would suck. On the other hand they get lots of chicks and they can kill people just by touching them.

  14. Mr. D Avatar

    On the other hand they get lots of chicks and they can kill people just by touching them.

    I would think that the ability to kill people just by touching them would work against one’s ability to get chicks. Or do they have a toggle switch?

  15. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    “That ain’t a toggle switch.”

  16. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    Here’s how DEVGRU people recognize one another: If you’re a DEVGRU and you’re out walking around and you see another guy who you think might be DEVGRU, you find someone and gruesomely kill them in front of the guy. If he is DEVGRU he responds by doing the same.
    Those guys are so cool.

  17. swiftee Avatar
    swiftee

    “That ain’t a toggle switch.”

    More OJT from AssClown for AC Jr.

    So, how long until Jr. “graduates” and you rattle-can “& Son” on the converted bread truck that serves as the “AssClown Sphincter Polishing” fleet?

  18. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    Yet they apparently also chat with 80-year-old retired Naval officers and spill detailed information about operations.

    Yes, Clown. People in institutions talk shop.  Especially with/among people who are really, really highly placed in the institution (like a Navy Captain is).

    If you were in a field where you had to find out things from people, you might know that.

  19. swiftee Avatar
    swiftee

    “If you were in a field where you had to find out things from people, you might know that.”

    Mitch, AC’s field requires him to find things out from people every day.

    “Say, are those piles, or did you tattoo my face on your ass?”

    “You want the high gloss, or the matte finish?”

  20. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Or like a rear admiral who’s been retired for 18 years? Who then spills the entire story, in convenient narrative format, to the entire wingnutosphere? Sure Mitch. Think you got sucked in by all the cool military abbreviations.

    Not to tell you your business in the SitD OpArea, but Angryclown thinks he’ll only have to wait a week or two for this story to be KIA on Snopes.

  21. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Shiftee’s a rear admiral too, but that’s just an honorary title from his favorite leather queen bar.

  22. swiftee Avatar
    swiftee

    “Shiftee’s a rear admiral too..”

    Everyone gets “top brass” treatment at AssClown & Son Sphincter Polishing.

  23. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    I am astonished at your lack of cynicism, Angry Clown. What do you think happened? That Obama gave the order to fire? He ain’t Shaft. You know, you can only learn so much about commanding military operations by watching reruns of Combat.

  24. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Oh, he is Shaft. John Shaft.

    No one understands him but the First Lady.

    Right on.

  25. Night Writer Avatar

    angryclown: This cat Obama is a bad —
    MSM: Shut your mouth!
    angryclown: But I’m talking ’bout Obama!
    MSM: Then we can dig it!

  26. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    This is the first, and so far only account that addresses the following conundrum.

    “What should have been a standoff lasting only hours, as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location, became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff”

    Anybody and everyone can, and should, question veracity of this account. But until proven otherwise, it seems to offer the most logical turn of events given the timeline and resources available on-site. Only CPN and CDR can settle this.

  27. Master of None Avatar

    jpi — I agree. There has always been a gaping hole in this entire episode. Why didn’t the Bainbridge attack the lifeboat when Phillips went into the water?

    I had always assumed that the Bainbridge was too far away and that the SEALs hadn’t arrived yet.

    I wonder if the MSM will ask the tough… er never mind.

  28. Dave Thul Avatar

    Angry-
    you may not believe it, but soldiers tend to get a little upset when their commanders do things that risk getting them killed.
    The most plausible part of the story is the delivery method. A retired Rear Admiral could easily have contacts with SEAL team members, and he would represent a technical gray area in regards to OPSEC.
    If I’m wrong I’ll fess up.

  29. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    Thulman, your post does not make sense. Risk of getting killed is part of the job for soldiers – upset or not. And what risk of that was there for SEALs on Bainbridge when Cap’n Phillips went for a swim, or at any time for that matter?

  30. Master of None Avatar

    I believe the “risk of getting killed” part was when the small Navy boat approached the lifeboat and took fire but wasn’t able to return fire. I don’t think any soldier signs up to be shot at without being able to shoot back.

    I had assumed that the reason they did not return fire was because of the inherent danger to Phillips, not to any standing order not to shoot.

    Another good question for the MSM to ask…..er never mind again.

  31. Dave Thul Avatar

    Restrictive ROE’s are inherently dangerous in the military. Restrictive rules take away options for the guys on the ground. They also interfere with years of military training and discipline, adding an extra mental step in a situation where time is at a premium.
    If the above account is accurate, then highly trained Navy SEALS were put in the position of having to consider political considerations, rather than just military ones.
    Any 18 year old private in Iraq had the right to use deadly force to defend himself, his fellow soldiers, or any civilian in danger of life or limb.
    But US Navy SEALS, some of the mostly highly trained warriors in the history of warfare, had to call the boss to ask for permission to the very same thing.

  32. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    “Angry-
    you may not believe it, but soldiers tend to get a little upset when their commanders do things that risk getting them killed.”

    So in your opinion, this justifies violating orders and publicizing the secret details of missions. Good to know. Much as you’d love to talk yourself into believing this e-mail bouncing around the wingnutosphere, Angryclown suggests a little scepticism. For a change.

  33. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    You know, some days Angryclown wonders if arguing with you far-right kooks isn’t too easy. Maybe Angryclown should use his prodigious talents to battle more able foes.

    Naaaaaaah, this is fun!

    ANGRYCLOWN RIGHT, WINGNUTS WRONG. AGAIN.

    Lou Sarosdy, the 81-year-old military retiree who was the supposed author of the e-mail making the rounds of the wingnutosphere, says he didn’t write it.

    http://hamptonroads.com/2009/04/authorship-viral-email-piracy-rescue-doubt

  34. Dave Thul Avatar

    Mea culpa then. I’m no conspiracy theorist or 9/11 truther, so if there’s actual evidence tot he contrary, then I’ll be the first one to admit that the Rear Admiral did not write the letter.

  35. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Geez, you’re no fun.

  36. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    He’s 81, AC. He could’ve forgotten that he’d written the letter.

  37. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    See, that’s the kind of wacky response Angryclown is looking for. Well played, Terry!

  38. Master of None Avatar

    I just want somebody in the MSM to ask a few questions. Crazy talk, I know.

  39. Dog Gone Avatar
    Dog Gone

    I’m skeptical of this report, in that we have no confirmation that the individual cited ever said any of this. There are plenty of name assertions about the Famous Amous cookie recipe that has been circulating for years as well, without any of it being true.

    If I can find any kind of contact information for this retired admiral, I am going to contact him and ask if he authored this.

    What has struck me in reading this report is that there is no mention of the FBI hostage negotiators who were supposed to be in charge. It is their jobs, and they are reputed to be every bit as competent as the SEALS at it, and were reported to be present at the request of the Bainbridg captain. Also absent in this report is the removal of the one surviving pirate who left the hostage boat due to illness.

    Equally missing is the reference to the very competent French forces who successfully attacked pirates, with only one hostage loss of life so far. Not perfect, but still commendable efforts.

    While I applaud the SEALS for their marksmanship, I had to wonder at the necessity for having such an overwhelming naval force to oppose four rag tag pirates – eventuallythree – in a helpless vessle that was out of gas. If ever there was an occasion that argued tactically for waiting out the bad guys, this was it.

  40. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Click on the link I provide above, Dog Bone. The 81-year-old retired rear admiral says he didn’t write the e-mail, has no idea if it’s true.

  41. Dog Gone Avatar
    Dog Gone

    Apparently the Admiral did NOT write this; it IS indeed another hoax.

    From today’s BusinessWeek online:
    “04/21/2009 8:14 AM ET
    Apr. 20–The widely circulated e-mail claims to offer a look inside last week’s Navy SEAL rescue of Capt. Richard Phillips from Somali pirates.
    The mesasge, credited to retired Rear Adm. Lou Sarosdy, begins, “Having spoke to SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for four days, I got the following.”
    It goes on to criticize President Obama for not authorizing the military to act more aggressively during the stand-off, which ended with snipers killing three Somali pirates.
    There’s at least one problem. Rear Adm. Sarosdy didn’t write it. And he doesn’t know if anything in it is true.
    “I don’t know any SEALs,” said Sarosdy, 81, by phone from his home in Pensacola, Fla. “I have no idea who transmitted that.”
    It’s popped up on message boards across the political spectrum, for the Sean Hannity Show, Military Times and MSNBC.
    The topic has seized the public’s imagination. A Google search of “SEALs Pirates” yielded more than 2 million hits.”

  42. Dog Gone Avatar
    Dog Gone

    Sorry Angry Clown – posted that before I looked at your link.

    One of the most interesting ideas I have heard to date to deal with the international problem of those pirates was attributed to Ron Paul; to revive Letters of Marque and Reprisal. While a somewhat antique solution, it does have a certain symmetry to solve the modern version of a very old problem.

    Or, alternatively, it would be cheaper in the long run for a consortium of countries to cooperate in hiring someone like Executive Outcomes or some equally reputable source familiar with working in Africa to sort our Somalia’s pirates. If not funding outright ‘merc work’, then perhaps the solution is to take up a collection for a more official group, like the French Foreign Legion…. Paying off pirates is only going to encourage them to further predation. As piracy pays off less, and there is more active opposition than the current catch and release program, it is inevitable that injuries and fatalities will increase. It would have to be cheaper than paying for our navy to hang around.

  43. Dog Gone Avatar
    Dog Gone

    Interstingly – Sarosdy DOES appear as a signator to the recent public letter in support of the Don’t Ask Don’t Tell law relating to homosexuality in the military.

  44. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    So in the world of Angryclown:
    * when he’s criticizing The One, he’s a doddering old duffer who can’t
    remember his name, but…
    * when he claims he didn’t write it, he has the mental acuity of
    a 16 year old chess prodigy.

    I see how this works.

  45. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Haha, it sure doesn’t take a lot of mental wattage to say, “I didn’t write that. I just forwarded an e-mail somebody sent me. I don’t even know any SEALs.” Even Shiftee could do that much. With a bunch of misspellings and references to the human anus, of course.

    Isn’t it about time you corrected your post, Mitch? Or you gonna continue to maintain the accuracy of discredited material to the bitter end?

    You’re a Republican. Silly question!

  46. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    Isn’t it about time you corrected your post, Mitch?

    Isn’t it about time you read it? I had the correction up before I left my last comment.

  47. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    On the other hand, my other observation – that someone’s mental acuity is in direct proportion to their agreement with you – I’ll stand by.

    I’m telling Marsha…

  48. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    OK, fair enough. Well done. And while the e-mail did kind of smell, you did at least verify the Navy pensioner existed.

    Marsha got pissed when Hillary lost the nomination, went all PUMA and dropped out of chat. She doesn’t return my e-mails!

  49. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    Can somebody tell me why FBI would be called to the scene? What jurisdiction do they have in international matters?

  50. Dave Thul Avatar

    Angry, all you have established in your ‘gotcha’ moment is that the accredited writer did not in fact write the letter.
    But Mitch’s question remains unanswered-why is the rear admiral ’18 years past mandatory retirement age’ when he is suspect to you, yet he makes a convincing witness when interviewed by a local paper and sympathetic to you.
    I will freely admit that the entirety of the account is not true, but you have no reason to gloat, since the story you cite doesn’t contradict the account, other than the name of the author.
    Find me a fact that proves the essence of the account wrong, and I’ll post an apology. Until then, revel in the knowledge that you have conclusively beyond the shadow of a doubt proved that 2 of the 728 words of the email are inaccurate.
    Bravo.

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