Shot in the Dark

Horrible If True

If the story presented in this Wall Street Journal article is true, what happened at the elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, could have been prevented or greatly mitigated:

Local residents voiced anger Thursday about the time it took to end the mass shooting at an elementary school here, as police laid out a fresh timeline that showed the gunman entered the building unobstructed after lingering outside for 12 minutes firing shots.

12 minutes can be a lifetime. But it gets worse.

Victor Escalon, a regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety, gave a new timeline of how the now-deceased gunman, 18-year-old Salvador Ramos, walked into Robb Elementary School, barricaded himself in a classroom and killed 19 children and two teachers.

Mr. Escalon said he couldn’t say why no one stopped Ramos from entering the school during that time Tuesday. Most of the shots Ramos fired came during the first several minutes after he entered the school, Mr. Escalon said.

And worse still:

Ramos shot his grandmother Tuesday morning and drove her truck to Robb Elementary School, crashing the vehicle into a nearby ditch at 11:28 a.m., according to the timeline laid out by Mr. Escalon. He then began shooting at people at a funeral home across the street, prompting a 911 call reporting a gunman at the school at 11:30. Ramos climbed a chain-link fence about 8 feet high onto school grounds and began firing before walking inside, unimpeded, at 11:40. The first police arrived on the scene at 11:44 and exchanged gunfire with Ramos, who locked himself in a fourth-grade classroom. There, he killed the students and teachers.

A Border Patrol tactical team went into the school an hour later, around 12:40 p.m., and was able to get into the classroom and kill Ramos, Mr. Escalon said.

Consider the implication of this timeline — Ramos essentially announced himself and his intentions from the moment he arrived, but no one stopped him for over an hour. And it gets worse:

Ms. Gomez, a farm supervisor, was also waiting outside for her children. She said she was one of numerous parents who began encouraging—first politely, and then with more urgency—police and other law enforcement to enter the school sooner. After a few minutes, she said, U.S. Marshals put her in handcuffs, telling her she was being arrested for intervening in an active investigation.

The Marshals deny this happened, but there’s more.

Videos circulated on social media Wednesday and Thursday of frantic family members trying to get access to Robb Elementary as the attack was unfolding, some of them yelling at police who blocked them from entering.

“Shoot him or something!” a woman’s voice can be heard yelling on a video, before a man is heard saying about the officers, “They’re all just [expletive] parked outside, dude. They need to go in there.”

We worry, quite rightly, about the fog of war in these instances. Much of the initial reporting is wrong. I am hoping the story told here is wrong; if it is accurate, there will be hell to pay. And quite rightly so.


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119 responses to “Horrible If True”

  1. Blade Nzimande Avatar
    Blade Nzimande

    “ I think it’s fair to say a whole lot of people are about to learn some unpleasant truths…’

    You’re fucking “A” right, home cookin’.

  2. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    Well, well, well.. But these are still just words, let’s see some pelts!

    Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas, on Friday said he has been lied to by law enforcement about the facts around Tuesday’s Uvalde school shooting, and said he was ‘livid’. ‘I was misled,’ Abbott said on Friday, addressing a press conference in Uvalde.’I am livid about what happened. I was on this very stage two days ago, and I was telling the public information that had been told to me in a room just a few yards from where we are write now. ‘

  3. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    The current bureaucratic age denies heroism. You are a paramedic &you have a call about a guy who has shot himself & is bleeding out, and you drive up in the ambulance and have to wait for the police to appear before helping the guy because a shot was fired.

  4. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    Althouse: If the police don’t arrive and save us from violence, how can this event support the argument for restricting guns? This is the very situation that makes the most responsible people want to own guns. It reminds me of the summer of 2020, when there were riots, and the police stood down.
    The pipsqueaks say “Oh! You need gun restrictions, because there aren’t any now!”
    It is a useless thing to be a pipsqueak.

  5. Emery Incognito Avatar
    Emery Incognito

    Woolly makes no compromises on right to life, so I hear.

  6. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    ^^ More insane gibbering. Literally impossible to determine what point Emery is trying to make.

  7. Emery Incognito Avatar
    Emery Incognito

    Maybe it’s time to discredit the “good guy with a gun” fantasy.

    In this case the local police force wasn’t a bunch of stereotypical rural slack-jawed Barney Fifes. They were heavily armed and played army often when it was just for fun. A lone gunman in a school is (awfully) a common enough occurrence that school kids train for it. Surely every police force should drill for this too?

  8. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    ^ Why don’t you take cutsie-pie slam and stick it up your ass sideways?

  9. Mr. D Avatar
    Mr. D

    The troll got his talking points. Google “Good Guy with a Gun” and get pages of similar observations that have nothing to do with what happened in Uvalde.

    And, what jdm said.

  10. Emery Incognito Avatar
    Emery Incognito

    The best thing to stop a bad guy with a gun is a dozen police with guns, plus rapid response, plus good judgment, plus kids calling 9-11, and actually we’re not even sure all that would help.

    Or maybe we could make background checks and purchase cool off periods more of a thing.

  11. Joe Doakes Avatar
    Joe Doakes

    He waited years until he graduated. He was cooked off.

    He passed a background check.

    A good guy with a gun and WILLING TO USE IT ended the crisis.

    In the words of the immortal Vinnie Gambibi:

    ‘Everything that guy just said is bullshit.’

  12. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    The Uvalde shooter passed a background check. The idea that a “cooling off” period would have made a difference is ludicrous, he waited until the day he turned 18, waiting another few days or weeks wouldn’t have made any difference.
    Every time you have a shooting like this, the gun grabbers propose legislation that wouldn’t have kept it from happening.
    There is no reason on that side. Maybe they should stop complaining about a chimerical ‘gun lobby’ and actually consider pro 2nd amendment arguments that their proposed solutions would be ineffectual, unconstitutional, or both?

  13. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    Since Uvalde pigs DID NOT cooperate with CBP and instructed them NOT to do anything for 30 FUCKING minutes, CBP on and off-duty personnel went in WITHOUT Uvalde pig’s approval, which makes all of them “good guys with a gun”, NOT part of law enforcement.

    In related news, do not forget Supremes ruled in the FL case pigs acting as police do NOT have the duty to protect. As Rev. Johnson said: son… you are on your own.

  14. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    oh, it gets better! horrible if true? true or photoshop, don’t know.

    This video is what we have all seen online but now we have the same video and there are two police officers who just stand there and watch the shooter as he enters the unlocked backdoor:

  15. Blade Nzimande Avatar
    Blade Nzimande

    Someone should have told the cops there was a White mom in there saying mean things about trannies.

    Would have ended zippy quick.

  16. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    Got this from a friend. While exaggerated and possibly untrue in some aspects, it raises and insinuates a number of good points.

    The media is asking the wrong questions about Uvalde. These questions seem to be overlooked.

    – How did an 18 year old secure a $70,000 truck, $5,000 worth of high end firearms, $1,000 worth of body armor and a thousand rounds of ammunition??…All on a Burger King paycheck?

    – How is it that this happened 2 days before the NRA convention in Houston? Coincidence? You be the judge!!

    When we have the answer to these questions then and only then the reason why this happened will be quite obvious.

  17. Emery Incognito Avatar
    Emery Incognito

    jdm is correct—that on occasion a “good guy with a gun” is able to thwart crime. But these instances are exceedingly rare. Few criminals are shot by decent law-abiding citizens.

  18. Emery Incognito Avatar
    Emery Incognito

    Woolly wrote: “Every time you have a shooting like this, the gun grabbers propose legislation that wouldn’t have kept it from happening.”

    Introduce gun control legislation and call it a “pro-life bill”. It’s factually accurate and might get the sort of people opposed to controls on board (or at least highlight their hypocrisy). Unfortunately, that section of society focuses on the moral failings of the perpetrators and how we need to “do something” about that.

    There are crazies in every country, but only in the US can they buy assault rifles.

  19. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    I thought it was already settled sicko did not wear body armor?

  20. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    jpa, you did see that I wrote “While exaggerated and possibly untrue in some aspects”, yes?

  21. Joe Doakes Avatar
    Joe Doakes

    Emery makes a good point, crazies in America can buy assault rifles.

    Emory suggests the solution is to lock away every assault rifle on the planet, so no crazy people get them.

    Wouldn’t it be easier to lock up the crazies?

  22. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    Wouldn’t it be easier to lock up the crazies?

    Yes. I’ve been harping on this for a while (along with jailing felons), but Jesse Kelly made a good point in this regard. Do we have mental health authorities that we can trust? The Soviets used their mental health authorities to put political opponents away.

  23. Blade Nzimande Avatar
    Blade Nzimande

    “ There are crazies in every country, but only in the US can they buy assault rifles.”

    That’s bullshit. It’s a proven fact the ATF supplies the Mexican market with an ample supply of semi-auto assault rifle clones.

    The cartels have the resources to convert them into the fully automatic, real deal.

    We supplied the Taliban with thousands of genuine A4 assault rifles and hundreds of thousands of rounds of high quality ammunition, and are currently shipping as many or more to support neo-Nazi child traffickers in Ukraine. 🇺🇦

    There’s a fully automatic Heckler-Koch rifle in every Swedish house with a male >25 years old.

    Brazilians have a wide assortment to choose from.

    Once again, rAT proves himself to be a source of ill informed bullshit.

    BTW, rAT. The market is tanking. I’m sure you’ve sold your stocks again, in the nick of time. Tell about the pROfiTS, rAT! TIA!

  24. Joe Doakes Avatar
    Joe Doakes

    jdm, what are you suggesting? That sensible government policy might involve balancing competing interests, weighing pros and cons, searching for a solution in an ocean of nuance? Do you mean to suggest hat corrupt governments – the kind which lie to the media, to judges, to the public themselves – might short-cut the burdensome process of governing well to score cheap political points?

    Pshaw. The solution is simple. Just ban something. Anything. Do something so we can be seen as Doing Something. And if that doesn’t work, then next time, we’ll Do Something else.

    Personally, I favor banning Klingon Disruptors. I hate those things. And think of all the Red Shirt lives we’ll save! Why isn’t Chuck Schumer all over this?

  25. Blade Nzimande Avatar
    Blade Nzimande

    JD, an assault rifle is equipped with a giggle (3 rnd burst and auto) switch. Civilian, modern sporting rifles do not have a giggle switch.

    It’s a clip vs. magazine deal. Accurate descriptions count.

  26. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    Just ban something

    And/or can we get congress to fund a Doing Something bill?

  27. Emery Incognito Avatar
    Emery Incognito

    ^ You’re the kind who follows the ‘therefore my dog spot is a cat’ kind of logic.

  28. Joe Doakes Avatar
    Joe Doakes

    Accurate descriptions count.

    They really don’t. They make us sound pedantic. Nitpicking details are not the fundamental point. The fundamental point is the right to own firearms, even assault rifles, for defense of self, family, home and country. When crazy people are the problem, then common sense crazy people control is the solution. Leave the guns alone.

  29. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    ^+1

  30. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    SO the people who sold you on “two weeks to flatten the curve” and the Russian Collusion hoax now have all these fantastic ideas about how to stop school shootings, and, you won’t believe it, but all of their ideas involve taking away your constitutional rights.
    Just so we all know where we are at.

  31. Night Writer Avatar

    Long comment thread here, and I didn’t bother going back to older comments on the previous page, so someone may already have shared that the “good guy with a gun” concept was demonstrated by a “good gal with a gun” in West Virginia a couple days ago. Some clown got his feelings hurt for being told to slow down in a neighborhood full of kids and decided to come back with his AR. As he started to open fire on a gathering, a female permit-holder settled his issues for him. He won’t be speeding, or shooting, through neighborhoods any more, and no one else was killed or wounded.

  32. jdm Avatar
    jdm

    ^ NW, I did, May 28, 2022 at 12:10 pm. The story is important enough that it bears repeating however.

  33. Emery Incognito Avatar
    Emery Incognito

    jdm wrote: “Got this from a friend. While exaggerated and possibly untrue in some aspects, it raises and insinuates a number of good points.”

    The Uvalde shooting conspiracies show how far-right misinformation is evolving.

  34. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    Mister “Russian Collusion,” AKA Emery, is giving another lecture on the foolishness of conspiracy theories.

  35. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    Curioser and curioser. I am sure it is just a coincidence, but things like this do not help the situation when authorities were caught lying from the words “No go”:

    #USArmy MC-12W recon plane (#RONIN34/12-00279) left #FortHood/Killeen at 10:15am CT on 5/24. It approached the #Uvalde area ~ 11:02 and flew over #KUVA; entered a pattern at 11:16, & landed at 11:25. At 12:48pm, the plane took off and returned to Ft Hood. https://t.co/8sYmvfABim pic.twitter.com/PSh7eT6bo8

    — RadarAtlas (@RadarAtlas) May 26, 2022

    Basically, the plane landed in Uvalde before the shooting and left just before the shooter was killed.

    And for those wondering, this type of aircraft has never landed at this airport before either.

    Why was this aircraft in Uvalde for the first time in 2022 at the exact moment that one of the deadliest US shootings was unfolding?

    Probably a coincidence, but there was only a handful of aircraft that came/went that day.

  36. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    The problem with believing in conspiracy theories is that they assume that there is actually some competent group of people in charge of the conspiracy. The Gang Who Couldn’t Shoot Straight who installed Biden are now some kind of super geniuses able to effectively manage elite assassin squads?
    Ever read about the laughable attempts of the CIA to kill Castro?
    Please stop.

  37. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    Great story about a blindingly obvious Uvalde hoax, easily debunked in seconds with google, totally swallowed whole by leftists. Not just anonymous Lefty commenters, but actual politicians with their eyes on the White House and award winning journalists: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/05/joaquin_castro_and_the_bluechecks_outclown_one_another_for_a_twitter_hoaxster.html

  38. Mammuthus Primigenesis Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenesis

    I would suggest that any person who entertains conspiracy theories read Humberto Eco’s Foucault’s Pendulum. Eco, who died in 2016, was an academic specializing in semiology, the study of how we signify or symbolize things.
    Eco’s breakthrough insight was that the difference between fact and fiction is an artificial construct of the human mind, it does not exist in an imagined external reality.
    The current pop-culture image of the human mind is a holdover from Victorian times, when it was believed that the mind is a sort of lens through which we observe an objective, material universe, either correctly (sane), or incorrectly (insane).
    The world we experience is a lot stranger, and more wonderful, than that.

  39. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    MP, remember when everyone said 2020 election was the most secure EVAH™ and there was no evidence of fraud and any talk otherwise is a crazy conspiracy theory? Now, after 2000 mules, we have Alex Halderman’s Dominion expose (you mean that crazy pillow guy was right?!) and TTV’s billions in foreign money and federal agencies facilitating voter fraud coming out, are all conspiracy theories – until proven right.

    I am just throwing shit out there that begs answers. Do I believe there WAS a dark conspiracy in regards to the Uvalde shooting? Hell no! We have a bunch of Barney Fifes running around commanded by Gomer Pyle! And now there talk they were not even on the use the police channel! What can go wrong? And that what makes them pigs, really, really stupid pigs, and not police. Each should be fired, starting with chief and on down the line. And whoever appointed this chief should be investigated as well. And then keep going higher to find out WHY incompetent pigs were entrusted with public safety.

  40. bikebubba Avatar
    bikebubba

    As far as I’ve seen, regarding the nice pickup the shooter had, the nice guns, and the like, the truck was his grandmother’s. Regarding how he got those nice guns on a Burger King paycheck, multiply 20 hours per week by 52 weeks per year by $12/hour and tell me what you get. By my reckoning, that’s more than enough to get those guns. It takes more thrift than many teens have, but it’s definitely doable.

    Regarding the Uvalde police, yes, they’d had training which had specifically told them that if they weren’t willing to risk being shot to protect innocents, they’d do well to find another line of work. Not quite sure what happened that they waited so long.

    Regarding “good guy with a gun”, it’s a couple of million uses of guns to protect innocent life annually. The trick is that gun grabbers want (understandably) to limit it to cases where the criminal is shot or killed–and of course define “criminal” very strictly so that a lot of criminals who “assume room temperature” are not described as such. In something like 98% of cases, the gun is not fired–it is sufficient to simply announce or display the gun to the offender.

    Regarding Dullee’s claim that Ukraine is somehow unique in terms of human trafficking, guess what country is also on the Tier 3 watchlist of the U.S. State Department? If you guessed “Russia”, move to the head of the class. Seems to me that the rampant corruption enabled by Vladimir Putin’s KGB has hurt both countries grievously. I bet it would help both countries greatly if Putin withdrew from the sovereign country he’s invading right now.

    (and guess which country that’s currently invading Ukraine has a much larger neo-Nazi/ultranationalist movement than does Ukraine? If you guessed “Russia”, right again!)

    And of course, Putin Delenda Est!

  41. Blade Nzimande Avatar
    Blade Nzimande

    There are reports of Javelin anti-tank rockets being sold in Syria.

    This is what happens when you arm a corrupt, rogue government. Been going in for years.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/war-turns-ukraine-into-supermarket-for-illegal-weapons

    Trump knew it, and stopped selling arms to Ukraine. Now, Pedo Joe is just giving it away for free.

  42. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    MP, it is just that coincidental stuff like this keeps popping up that raises questions nobody seems to have any interest in asking and just write them off as conspiracy theory crap. But an answer would be nice, because who stands to benefit from gun confiscation and disarming of the law-abiding citizens? And it is not like US gov’t did not have “fast and furious” operation (or was it just a conspiracy theory… before it wasn’t) and cartels are soooooo humane to their victims – children, adults and elderly alike, no?

    The Texas gun store where teen school shooter Salvador Ramos got an AR-15-style rifle before his rampage was previously part of an ammunition smuggling case involving the Mexican drug cartel, according to Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

  43. bikebubba Avatar
    bikebubba

    Yo, Dullee, if you read the article you linked, you’ll find that the chief source of arms being sold on the black market in Ukraine is its neighbor to the east, which has been waging a proxy war in Ukraine (and one in Georgia) for a long time now. That source, that corrupt regime, is called “Russia”.

    Agreed that we ought to stop doing business with such corrupt regimes that victimize their neighbors with proxy wars. My company just decided to shut down operations there entirely. Don’t you think it’s about d*** time you came up to speed and stopped cheering as that corrupt regime commits war crime after war crime?

  44. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    And… more questions because there are so many holes, but this is all just conspiracy talk, right, MP?

    Where was Salvador Ramos born? Early reports say he was from North Dakota. North Dakota is a big state. In what town in North Dakota was the future mass killer born? Where is a copy of his North Dakota birth certificate? How about a baptism certificate?

    If Ramos is from south of the border, leftists will have a tough time pinning this latest fiasco on Trump. Didn’t he warn us about the folks flooding into this country? Wasn’t his election in 2016 a sign that Americans want a sensible immigration policy?

    The silence about Salvador Ramos’s origins is deafening. Politicians are making statements, retracting statements, and making new statements about his recent history. Meanwhile, the police are trying to get their facts straight. Our 365-day/24-hour news cycles are rehashing and speculating like crazy to give us narratives and explain why Ramos did what he did. Will we ever get the truth?

  45. Bill C Avatar
    Bill C

    bikebubba: I don’t recall Swiftee saying he supports the Russian side. All he is doing is saying “everyone who is cheering on Ukraine, stop. They’re corrupt as hell.” Just because he is anti-Ukraine, doesn’t make him pro-Russia.

    Now, if you can recall where he expressed pro-Russia sentiment, please link it. Otherwise, you’re being as effective here as the Emery collective.

    For the record, I was completely anti-Russia, but neutral on Ukraine. After the few things that Swiftee has presented about Ukraine, I’m equally anti-Ukraine as I am anti-Russia. I don’t care who is the victor. My main concern is this war is going to cause a global food crisis. Due to how large of a global share of fertilizer and related agricultural products both countries produce and export, which is no longer being exported.

    As far as I’m concerned, I’d love to see a few Mitch Rapps/Scott Horvaths (or the equivalent from the IDF) go in and take care of both Putin and Zelensky.

  46. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    Bill, somebody is writing a script for putin/zelensky, that’s who should be taken care of.

    As far as bike, he is against war crimes unless they are committed by his propagandists, then its ok and justified.

    In the meantime, and back on topic, looks like chief is in the hot seat… good start. But so much more needs to be done, like answering simple questions.

  47. Blade Nzimande Avatar
    Blade Nzimande

    Yes Delenda, was that is what it says. Ukraine has been selling weapons the got from Russia. You do know they were part of the Soviet Union, don’t you? Are you really that dense?

    And now, they’re selling the stuff Pedo Joe gave them…unless you think they are getting Javelins from Putin?

    When Zelinsky takes a hike with as much of that $40 billion of borrowed US dollars as he can, and leaves his country swinging in the breeze, the Russian Federation will take control of all that stuff. I doubt they’ll sell it to Syrian arms merchants, but who knows? They might need the cash to buy new yachts.

    Zelinsky is punking nitwit leftist degenerates, Pedo Joe’s handlers, Congress, NATO and clueless ‘Merica boomers like you.

    It’s hilarious!

  48. Blade Nzimande Avatar
    Blade Nzimande

    “ My company just decided to shut down operations there entirely.”

    Yeah, I read about that…bold move.

    https://corporate.mcdonalds.com/corpmcd/en-us/our-stories/article/ourstories.mcd-exit-russia.html

  49. Blade Nzimande Avatar
    Blade Nzimande

    All the West is accomplishing here is removing any incentive Putin has for restraint.

    If you thought he was bad before, just wait until Russia doesn’t have to abide by any trade agreements! And when he’s done there, Ukraine won’t have anything to sell *but* Javelins, M4’s, APC’s and children.

    Further, if Finland joins NATO, Putin will crush the life out of them. You probably don’t know, (because Fox News won’t say so), but Finland’s economy is dependent on Russian trade. And that’s to say nothing about what will happen when they don’t have natural gas to heat their saunas.

    Y’all are fucking idiots!

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