Shot in the Dark

Raising the Wrong Age Limit

Phyllis Kahn – a woman for whom the Strib normally carries the water in the most baldfaced possible way – has introduced a bill that would lower the drinking age to 18, again.

They are not amused:

If a 19-year-old can sign a contract and get married, shouldn’t she be able to legally sip champagne at her own wedding? And if an 18-year-old can be sent to war in Iraq or Afghanistan, why can’t he have a beer in a bar? Furthermore, teens will always find ways to drink — why not let them do it legally? A proposed bill at the Legislature this year poses these questions, but it provides the wrong answer.

And in response, the Strib provides even wrong-er responses.

But we’ll get to that. Kahn’s rationale – and it’s one of precious few times “rationale” has been used unironically in reference to Rep. Kahn – is that criminalizing drinking merely makes the behavior more pronounced. Underground drinking, already illegal, is more flagrant than measured, legal drinking.

Overwhelmingly, the evidence supports a drinking age of 21. Studies of the still-developing teenage brain show that adolescents are more vulnerable than adults to the effects of alcohol on learning, memory and judgment. And those who begin drinking in their early teens are at greater risk to become alcoholics.

Well, yeah. The “Teenage Brain” is more vulnerable to everything. It’s why we send teenagers, rather than thirty-somethings, to school. It’s why the military knocks itself out recruiting high school kids rather than married family guys.

Every stimulus meets a more intense response when you’re dealing with teenagers.

The question is, why single out drinking?

The Strib comes close to making a point…:

In addition, the lower age limit was tried before — and it didn’t work. Similar concerns were raised in the 1970s during the Vietnam War, prompting many states to lower the drinking age. But in the following decade younger drunken drivers became a bigger issue than war or the military service. As a result, Congress said it would pull federal funds from states that did not set 21 as the drinking age. By 1988, every state was in compliance.

But then…:

The results speak for themselves. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration reported that the number of drunken drivers under age 21 involved in fatal crashes decreased by 61 percent from 1982 to 1998. The agency also estimated that tens of thousands of lives were saved from 1975 to 2003 by higher age limits.

I don’t know exactly what studies they’re talking about – and it’s likely the Strib doesn’t either. The Strib Editorial Board tends to get its talking points from whatever pressure group has their ear at the moment; see their editorial on the “Stand Your Ground” bill.

But does the Strib think that drinking age laws operated in a vacuum? Laws about drunken driving in general got much stricter, especially against teenagers.

And five years ago, the Centers for Disease Control reviewed 49 studies on drinking age laws. Nearly all of them found that a 21-year-old drinking age saved lives.

As much as these people genuflect to Europe, you’d think they’d be a bit more cosmopolitan.

In most of Europe, drinking age laws (while more strict than they were a generation ago) are much lower than in the US, if they exist at all. And drunk driving rates are infinitesimal compared to the US.

Why?

Attitudes toward drinking are different, for starters; alcohol is a way of life in Europe, while in America it’s been regarded as a drug, a sin, contraband (by the Constitution, no less), a social problem. Scottish football hooligans notwithstanding, getting hammered and staggering around drunk doesn’t have quite the same cachet in Europe that it does among Americans, especially younger ones and Packer fans.

But laws about driving are much more strict in Europe. It takes serious time and effort – a year’s worth of classes, a lot of money, a hard test – to get a driver’s license in Europe. And part of that training involves learning the penalties for drunk driving – which are unambiguously severe.

So young Europeans drink. And yet they don’t drive drunk in anywhere near the numbers American teens did, and do.

Seeing a pattern here?

We admit that it seems inconsistent that young men and women who can be sent to war can be too young to drink legally. Yet that’s more an argument to raise the minimum age for military service than to lower the minimum age for drinking.

Well, no. It’s an argument to make driving more a privilege than a right; to put some teeth in driver education. There’s at least a fair argument that Minnesota’s new, more restrictive laws on teenage driving (they’re all on probation, in effect, until 18, with zero tolerance for screw-ups) have done at least as much to cut the death rate among young drivers as raising the drinking age did.

There’s nothing wrong with the fact that a kid can get a hunting license at age 12, drive at 16…

Actually, that example proves the opposite point.

Teenage hunters – like concealed carry permit holders – receive training that focuses intensely on the consequences of screwing up. And who causes the problems with hunting rifles and handguns in our state? Not teenage hunters (or carry permittees).

Forget the drinking age; it’s time to raise the driving age.


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40 responses to “Raising the Wrong Age Limit”

  1. Loren Avatar
    Loren

    I am all for consistency. Let’s raise the age of majority to 21.

    As my already 18 year old son prepares to go to college in the fall, none of the colleges seem to consider him an adult, at least as far as paying for said college goes. The colleges, including state units such as the UofM, consider him to be a minor to be supported by his parents.

    If 18 year olds can not handle the responsibility of drinking, why does society give them the responsibility to cast votes for leaders?

    Why can 18 year olds legally sign contracts worth millions of dollars, but not spend $3 on a beer?

    Make the drinking age consistent with the age of majority. Up or down, go for consistency.

  2. Kermit Avatar
    Kermit

    criminalizing drinking merely makes the behavior more pronounced
    In the same way lowering the BAC to .08 creates more DUI arrests?

  3. Chuck Avatar
    Chuck

    When my older brother was in high school, the drinking age was 18. In his class, a couple of high school juniors (who were held back a year so were older) would go to the bar and legally drink over lunch hour.

    I like going to bars. The last thing I want in there are some idiot teenagers who can’t handle booze.

  4. Amendment X Avatar
    Amendment X

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it Auntie Phyliss “I Can Con You All” Kahn who proposed that 14 year olds vote? But, it seems to follow logically that she would want those who are immature to vote. Isn’t that her political base?
    Just did a Google search. My mistake on 14 year olds getting the right to vote. It was 12 years old. She then changed the age to 16. So, statistically I was right…yah.
    12 years old. Think about it.
    (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/26/weekinreview/26belluck.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=login free registration required)

  5. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    Yet that’s more an argument to raise the minimum age for military service than to lower the minimum age for drinking.

    The military will pay a kid out of high school ~1300/month + room & board, college fund, + training in a number of occupations.

    Way to go, Star & Trib! Yank those opportunities away from kids who can’t afford college!

  6. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    They can still play Russian Roulette for money, Terry, like in The Deer Hunter. That way they can risk death and afford college without leaving home.

  7. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Terry observed: “The military will pay a kid out of high school ~1300/month + room & board, college fund, + training in a number of occupations.”

    Yeah, there’s tons of jobs available for guys who know how to kill people and clean bathrooms. Ninja janitor, for one.

  8. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    Yeah! That’s how AC got through Klown Kollege!

    His 12-3-1 record remains the worst for a living graduate, but all’s well that ends well!

  9. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    My aim is very poor.

  10. Kermit Avatar
    Kermit

    wasn’t it Auntie Phyliss “I Can Con You All” Kahn who proposed that 14 year olds vote?
    As I recall it was 8 years.

  11. Kermit Avatar
    Kermit

    Yeah, there’s tons of jobs available for guys who know how to kill people and clean bathrooms. Ninja janitor, for one.

    Sure, Clownie. There is no market for people trained on the most sophisticated electronic. People that can repair equipment of all sorts? Totally unemployable. And all of that supervisory experience looks dreadful on a resume.

  12. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Sure, cause you never know when Citibank is gonna need to put somebody in a helicopter to machine-gun Goldman Sachs.

  13. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    Not much chance of getting killed or injured in college! Except For the Virginia Tech shooting. And the Dawson college shooting. And the Illinois college shooting. And the louisiana Technical College shooting. And the University of Arizona Nursing college shootings. And the Appalachian Law School shooting. And the Shephard University shooting. Say, didn’t some Muslim guy run over a bunch of college students somewhere in the mid-south year or two ago?
    An E4 (specialist) with a couple of years experience gets around $1800/month.A summer intern at the Strib gets nothing — but maybe that hard earned journalism degree they’re working on will get them a job offer in the mid-twenties when they graduate!

  14. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    You’ll have to forgive the clown, Kermit. He doesn’t know much about how people who have to work for a living get & keep jobs.

  15. kel Avatar
    kel

    Phyllis lives in a decent sized house on Nicollet Island where her neighbors pay $3k-up in property taxes but her property tax for 08 is only $221.35 – she lives in a special world.

  16. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    Driving age limit comparison between Europe and US is not a valid one. Comparison itself is Okay, but you are comparing apples and oranges. Europe, for the most part, is an urban socialist “paradise” with population density many times that of US (NYC is an exception). They can get just about anywhere on a public transport. If a European wants to go on a vacation, it is seldom a driving one – they are more than likely to hop on a train. Oh, and do not forget about the price of gas in Europe – driving really is a privilege. Last time I had to fill up a car in Europe was about 10 years ago, and while gas here was well under $2/gal, it was well over $5/gal in Europe. Most of the difference in gas price is tax – gotta support that socialist government, 30 hour work week and 12 weeks of vacations somehow. Here in US, unless you live in the heart of a mega city such as NYC and Chicago, you need a car just to get groceries, never mind work, etc.

    To pre-empt our socialist urbanite trolls, public transportation only works in densely populated areas, so most of USA does not qualify. I, personally, do not want to see the inside of a bus, trolley car, trolley bus or a subway as much as I can help it. Been there, done that for 20 years, got the t-shirt.

    We, Amercians, rely on our cars for basic transportation as much as Europeans do on trains and public transport. Thus requirements for age limits are, and should be different. I am, however, all for making obtaining a license a much more rigorous affair – driving license is a privilege, not a right.

    Sorry for such a long post, but one more anecdote about perceptions of distance in US and Europe. Our family went on vacation out-west a year ago. We drove all the way to LA and back – about 5,000mi with stopovers, etc. My friend in Germany was aghast! He could not believe it as they would never consider such a long trip. After all, 5,000mi is the distance between Frankfurt and Shanghai.

  17. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Yep, lotsa school shootings there Terry. But that doesn’t mean 12-year-olds shouldn’t have guns, eh? Maybe all those school shooters are trying to get those great job skills you learn in the military and are freelancing.

  18. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    angryclown said:

    “But that doesn’t mean 12-year-olds shouldn’t have guns, eh?”

    Did Terry mention college shootings, or elementary school shootings? Maybe angryclown is confused. Or drunk. 😉

  19. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    Angry clown is confused (at least). It’s all high finance, powerful public employee unions and welfare in the Big Apple these days. I can see how a fella living there would figure that people who do an honest day’s work for an honest day’s wage are rubes.

  20. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Zat so, Terry? Seems to me you there’s some reason you can buy anything in New York at any hour. And that you can usually find people at their desks before and after 9 to 5. While the Twinkie Cities are deserted by 6. And that reason is you’re all pretty lazy and prefer to live where the competition isn’t quite so intense.

  21. Troy Avatar
    Troy

    You are quite ignorant, angryclown. Please tell us more of your extensive knowledge of the work routine in the “Twinkie Cities”.

  22. nate Avatar
    nate

    The dumbest part is many kids get driver’s licenses at 16 so they can drive to jobs they need to pay for the car to drive to the job to pay for the car to drive to the job . . . .

    If it weren’t for beer and girls, the whole idea would be just depressing.

    .

  23. Kermit Avatar
    Kermit

    The reason “the Twinkie Cities are deserted by 6” is because all those Godless democrats refuse to repeal blue laws. Talk about your contradictions.

  24. Kermit Avatar
    Kermit

    We wouldn’t want “Republican lobbyists puking on the sidewalks at 4 AM”, now would we?

  25. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Vomiting Republicans make the baby Jesus smile.

  26. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    AC-
    The people who say that “American workers shouldn’t be afraid to compete with foreign workers” are capitalists, free trade theorists, and workers whose jobs are not threatened by foreign comptetion. The competing workers themselves are voiceless.
    I have never met a human being who welcomed competition in providing for his or her family.
    The dirtiest trick by far is open immigration. If we can’t send a job oversees we’ll bring a foreigner here to do it cheaper. If you have capital you can put it to work earning money anywhere in the world at the click of a mouse button. If all you have to sell is your labor you can’t scurry off to wherever in the world the wages are highest today.

  27. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    I agree with you, Terry. It is the refrain of Republican losers everywhere. Competition is just fine for everybody else, but not if it means they have to hustle a little more than they’re used to. Boohoo. Maybe that’s why Angryclown got a good education and works hard. “Open immigration” is a result of jobs that go undone by Americans.

    You want to go work in a chicken processing plant in Arkansas? Bet you won’t have to knock on too many doors before you’re hired. You wingnuts simply want to insulate yourselves from the competition you profess to believe in. You make Angryclown sick.

  28. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    Who knew that the chicken processing plants in Arkansas employed 12,000,000 illegal aliens?
    “You wingnuts simply want to insulate yourselves from the competition you profess to believe in.”
    Actually, old boy, I noted that the only citizens who loved the idea of open immigration were people under no threat of competition from them.
    If lawyers, doctors, journalists and politicians felt the slightest threat to their power & income from the illegals they would be deported immediately & our southern border would look like checkpoint charlie.
    Who in this country benefits from an endless supply of cheap, unskilled labor? It ain’t blacks and it ain’t the poor.

  29. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Immigration should be like the English soccer league. Losers get dropped from the league.

    Angryclown’s idea: If you’re lazy, you get deported, whether your family’s been here 10 years or 300, to make room for somebody who’ll contribute. Start slacking at that job in your volcano hideout, Terry, and there’s a Korean or Costa Rican or Ukrainian who’ll be glad to take your place.

    Republicans make me puke. You’re all a bunch of hypocritical whiners.

  30. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    I guess that means we get rid of the lazy bastards on welfare. We’ve got 5% unemployment. No excuse for a non-lazy person not to have a job.
    Face it clown. You’re a racist. No need for you to do the dirty work when you can hire a brown person who’ll work for cheap.

  31. Alois vom Lugers Avatar

    It’s always struck me as interesting how most conservatives I know (Mitch included) started out much lower on the economic totem pole than folks like the Clown who take their “good education” as a God-given right and talk down their noses about “hustling” to people who are already working two or three jobs.

    I was counting the seconds until the Clown dropped the word “Losers” (always a fave of overprivileged libtards) and he didn’t disappoint me–see above.

  32. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    You’re for putting up a big-ass fence to keep all the brown people out. Tell me who’s the racist, Terry. Ever notice how all your major wingnuts are white guys? Wonder why that is.

  33. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Yo Lugerboy, you know dick about my background. Less privileged that Mitch’s, from what he’s posted here.

    What “two or three jobs” you working, big man?

  34. Alois vom Lugers Avatar

    Truck driver, school bus driver. And yes, I have a college degree (BS Meteorology, UW-Madison). Which I paid for with my own money, because there ain’t no scholarships for poor white kids. Any further questions?

  35. Terry Avatar
    Terry

    I’m all for keeping illegal Canadians, Poles, and Scottish people out of the damn country as well as Mexicans. No one should be here who is not here legally. The least we owe the American citizens who are not blessed with above average intelligence & an education is that we won’t let every person in the world compete for their job. Screw the fat capitalists and their liberal bourgeois enablers. If being an American means anything it means you are more loyal to your country and your countrymen than you are to your social class.

  36. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    I had the most privileged possible upbringing – more privileged, indeed, than probably 95% of the world’s people.

    I was born healthy, with two arms and two legs and a brain with average function. I had two parents – one guy, one gal – who did their best not to make choices that’d screw up my life along with theirs. I grew up knowing I was going to need to support myself someday. And I was born in America.

    Beyond that, nothing else really matters all that much.

  37. Alois vom Lugers Avatar

    True dat, Mitch. True dat.

  38. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    Well, I don’t know quite what to say about that, Alois vom Lugers. Perhaps you enjoy driving. Perhaps you decided to leave the snakepit of, um, meteorology at some point. Beats me. I’m pretty sure the Mexicans aren’t taking all the meteorology jobs, if that’s a consolation. Angryclown just wonders why wingnuts, who profess to be in favor of competition and making people live with the consequences of their decisions, never, never, never apply those rules to themselves.

  39. Alois vom Lugers Avatar

    And while you’re wondering about that, Your Clownness, I will wonder why you continually refer to yourself in the third person.

  40. angryclown Avatar
    angryclown

    It seems to annoy people.

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