The Good Ol’ Guy With A Gun

One of the few bits of “good” news from the Sutherland Springs mcaassacre is that it was ended by a Good Guy with a Gun.

Details are coming out now – Stephen Willeford responded to the shooting with his AR15, fired a shot that apparently found a gap in Kelley’s body army, and seized the initiative:

Willeford is being hailed as a hero. His actions may well have stopped further bloodshed. Willeford is not a member of the church where the shooting took place, but he his daughter called him and told him there was a man in body armor shooting up the church

Willeford grabbed a rifle and answered the call. He found Kelley (above) outside of the church and shot him. The surprise caused Kelley to drop his rifle, and the shooter then ran to his own SUV and fled the scene.
Johnnie Langendorff was also responding. Langendorff picked up Willeford and the two gave chase. They followed Kelley in a high speed chase and eventually caused Kelley to lose control and run off the road. There, police say Kelley shot himself in the head.

This is, of course, exactly what law enforcement now knows about spree killers; resist them with lethal force, and they usually run, give up, kill themselves, or – as in this case – all three.

Just as we said.



71 thoughts on “The Good Ol’ Guy With A Gun

  1. Pen,

    BTW BB/Mitch, given this guy had on a ballistic vest, exactly what good would it have done for John Doe in the church to have a concealed pistol?

    Maybe nothing.

    Maybe “suppressive fire” – getting hit is still getting hit. It’s gonna leave a mark. Get a couple marks left, it’s gonna give a guy second thoughts.

    And maybe – if you’d read my response yesterday – the mere fact that there is concerted resistance causes him to break off the attacks. I noted several such examples yesterday, and it is what law enforcement trains people to do now.

    But you didnt read my responses, did you?

  2. Short answer, if he shot him in the vest/chest. none. So, apparently, what we need now is for people to walk around with deer rifles.

    Har di har.

    Again and again you guys miss the point. This isn’t about (AT ALL) the right of someone to arm themselves. it’s about the fact that this guy shouldn’t have had an assault rifle, FIRST because he shouldn’t have been allowed to buy one, he was ineligible

    Government’s fault. Not ours.

    – and it’s you rightwing nuts who want the scant laws we have done away with which would have stopped him

    Untrue. We want laws that work. Bans don’t work.

    second because he has no need for one to defend himself. Period.

    “Period” is neither evidence nor an argument. It’s not your decision to make.


  3. The laws banning these weapons will someday come along, until then, we’ll continue to see nut jobs

    Er, we had an “assault weapon ban” for 10 years. Even its congressional supporters said it did nothing

  4. Pen, your source proves that for stopping either 5.56 mm or 30.06, the exact same body armor level is required. What your source proves, ironically, is that the best rifle for countering a lethal threat as in the recent atrocity is the AR-15.

    Unless, of course, you’re suggesting that we all ought to go out and buy some armor piercing ammunition, which is as a rule something I’d thought gun controllers were against.

    So not only are you a manure spreader by trade, you can’t even read a simple table.

  5. Finally, Pen,

    (whom you don’t want to have prevented from buying) continue to massacre innocent people.

    Pen, I say this with all due respect; that was so far below the belt, you’re punching at ankles.

    Not cool, not appropriate, and not right. Don’t go there.

  6. Regarding the vest and whether a concealed pistol would have done any good, Mitch is first of all correct that a hit is a hit. It hurts, throws the guy off his game, tweaks his OODA loop. It is not certain, but it is entirely possible that it would have induced him to flee or off himself right there. The perp doesn’t know whether the round was or wasn’t capable of penetrating his 15mm thick or thicker tactical vest; he just knows it HURTS.

    If it didn’t stop him, a person returning fire might notice the tactical vest and make adjustments in the same way as actually happened; adjust 18″ up, 18″ down, or to the side. Or he might miss the center of mass altogether and hit an arm or leg.

  7. BTW BB/Mitch, given this guy had on a ballistic vest, exactly what good would it have done for John Doe in the church to have a concealed pistol?

    Short answer, if he shot him in the vest/chest. none. So, apparently, what we need now is for people to walk around with deer rifles.

    Hey Pen? I propose an experiment: You go put on a bulletproof vest (of the highest military grade quality) and let someone shoot you dead center with a 9mm pistol. I guarantee you’ll survive. A high quality bulletproof vest WILL stop a 9mm round. Then lets see how you fare afterwards. Let’s see your ability to continue doing whatever you were doing before being non-lethally shot. Think you’ll be able to shrug it off and keep going? Let’s try a .45 ACP. Still should be plenty survivable with your vest. Let’s see how well and uninterrupted you can continue what you were doing before being shot.

  8. Untrue. We want laws that work. Bans don’t work.

    That’s not true, Mitch. Law-abiding people will abide by laws, even if they are bans. The people who are problems, the armed people who are problems, don’t.

  9. what Bill C said. Ballistic plate may hold off a bullet – but it doesn’t take away 400 foot/pounds of shock at 15 feet.

    And you keep ignoring the part that law enforcement discovered after Columbine: spree killers tend to fold up and run or kill themselves after any lethal force resistance.

    I’ll direct you to the story of Nick Meli, who confronted a shooter with an AR15 at the Klackamas Mall in Portland with his concealed permitted Glock.

    He didn’t even shoot; just pointed.

    The killer (who’d killed two) fled into a Gap and killed himself.

    No “deer rifle” needed.

    Again – FACT, not vacuous lefty memes.

  10. I’m nothing if not MN Nice. Here’s a video comparing being shot by different caliber guns and being hit with a rubber mallet and a baseball bat:

    One shot could have stopped him or shocked him long enough that a couple other people could have tackled him. Given it was Texas, I think the likelihood of that happening would have been far greater than other states like IL, MA or CA. As Mitch has repeatedly said, the FBI and DOJ found that applying any serious force will break the shooter out of his reverie and stop (or sideline) the attack. Sure a couple people might have died when he ambushed the place. No one expects a shooter to come into a church and start firing. But if carry were allowed in a church in TX, more than likely there would have been far fewer dead than it was. There is no rational denying of that statement.

  11. BTW BB/Mitch, given this guy had on a ballistic vest, exactly what good would it have done for John Doe in the church to have a concealed pistol?

    More proof Penny and his ilk live in a make-belief world invented by Hollyweird where suppressed weapons do not make a sound and bulletproof vests prevent any felt impact. Why do libs hate physics so much?

  12. Penny and Emery,

    Have you both posted your “This House Bans Firearms” signs in your front yards yet?

  13. There is no rational denying of that statement.

    Bill, you are not dealing with rational arguments from Penny and eTASS.

  14. To pile on Pen and Emery, here’s an article that suggests the (redacted) went aisle by aisle and shot infants at point blank range.

    I’m going to dare suggest this changes the dynamics in favor of a lawful pistol owner–it means that responding fire would likely be within easy range for a head shot with a J frame revolver, no full size 1911 would have been needed.

  15. MBerg quoting & commenting on Pen’s foolish statement:
    “second because he has no need for one to defend himself. Period.”
    “Period” is neither evidence nor an argument. It’s not your decision to make.

    President Barack H. Obama, June 15, 2009:

    “I know that there are millions of Americans who are content with their health care coverage — they like their plan and, most importantly, they value their relationship with their doctor. They trust you. And that means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.”
    Obama wanted to end an argument he could not win, because he had no idea what was in the ACA, as later events have indicated, and which any sensible person knew at the time (there was never any provision in the bill saying that individuals could keep existing plans & doctors). The fact that Obama was able to repeat this lie, again and again, without being challenged by the MSM (who know as much as I do, I hope), illustrates both how corrupt the media are, and why Americans ar right to distrust establishment media.

  16. There are various grades of ballistic vests. The better they are, the more expensive they are, and, I suppose, the more difficult to obtain.

  17. I like the bit about the perp having no “need” to defend himself, as if the four women he’d abused didn’t have any reason to strike back–or more likely, their brothers, friends, of fathers. Now I’m perfectly fine with the deceased not having any means of lethal self-defense as a result of his crimes, but to pretend he had no need for self-defense is just absurd. Domestic abusers are rightly nervous when the brothers of their victims come to town!

    It really is as if Pen has no clue about the real world. We could fisk him all night, couldn’t we?

  18. “I’m off to score a sweet chain saw bayonet before they’re all sold out.”
    I’m going to use a makita drill as a bayonet, Swiftee! ‘Cuz just how crazy bad I am!

  19. Penigma has been assimilated by the Borg. Resistance is Useless!

    No, it’s not.

    The Texas shooter was wearing a ballistic vest with front plate and he still died of gunshot wounds. A bulletproof vest doesn’t make someone invincible (if it did, no cop would fear being shot by his own gun – he’d stand there with hands on hips laughing while bad guys blazed away at him).

    What’s required to stop an active shooter is not deer rifles or large capacity magazines, it’s courage. Training would help, but mostly it’s turning toward the gunman instead of cowering, hoping to die last.

  20. Joe, well done–if indeed the vest had a plate in it, that would indicate it was actually designed to stop not only .223 or .303 Enfield, but also armor piercing .30. Yet another place where Pen didn’t know from Shinola, as CNN is saying he had that “inch thick” vest. Yes, you can buy them commercially, about a grand or so.

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