Shot in the Dark

I Wanna See Some History…

Trump bombed s Syrian military installation.  It’s been in all the papers.

I’m not going to comment about that, per se – what can I possibly add?

No, I’m not commenting about the pros and cons and rights and wrongs of yesterday’s action in Syria, or of whatever might be around the corner…

… but listening to the “sky is falling” reactions of some of my social media network – especially those below the age of about 45 or so – all I can think is “holy cow, good thing none of you were alive during the Cold War.”  They’d all have died of heart attacks or institutionalized themselves from stress in mere weeks.
 
It seems that something like this, or worse, was happening every month throughout my childhood – which was spent twenty miles from a Minuteman III missile silo.
 
Just a sample, off the top of my head, from a couple of my high school and college years:
  • Soviets invaded Afghanistan; US supplied equipment to the Afghan resistance.
  • Polish labor unions started agitating against their Soviet oppressors; Soviets were ready to invade when the Polish Army staged a ‘coup’ and brutally shut down the protests; the US/UK, the Pope and the AFL-CIO smuggled money and other aid to the Polish trade unions to continue resisting the Communists.
  • China and Vietnam fought a war
  • India (then a Soviet ally) and Pakistan (then a US ally) fought a war.
  • India developed a nuke.
  • North Korea – a Soviet proxy – was in a constant state of war with South Korea, a US ally. While Kim Jong Il didn’t have the technology his son has, he also launched *many* raids into the South; Nork commando raids, with frequently-bloody resolutions, were a semi-regular thing.
  • Soviet sponsored terrorists – Baader-Meinhof, Brigati Rossi and many others – killed people in the streets in Europe.
  • Faced with Iraq (a Soviet proxy) building a nuclear reactor that could lead to the Arab Nuke, Israel bombed an Iraqi nuclear reactor that was being built by the French.
  • Israel (a US proxy) invaded Lebanon to push back terrorists sponsored by Iran, who’d been bombarding the Kibbutzim in the north with Soviet-made rockets; they ran into Syrian (Soviet proxy) forces (in brand-new Soviet tanks and aircraft), and destroyed them in head to head battle, leading to the brink of yet another Mid-east war.
  • Cuba (Soviet Proxy) sent troops to aid various sub-saharan dictators (Soviet proxies); US sent aid to the opposition.
  • Hezb’allah (a Syrian/Iranian proxy) kidnapped American diplomats, businesspeople and military advisors in Lebanon, killing some of them.
  • Soviet planes and submarines constantly probed US and NATO defenses; US and NATO planes and submarines constantly returned the favor, leading to many tense moments)
  • Various communist (Sovet proxy) groups launched terror, guerilla and electoral campaigns in South and Central America; the US supported their opposition. Borderline civil war erupted in many countries, supported by both sides.
  • Several times during the ’70s and ’80s, errors on both sides led the nuclear forces on *both* sides to go to advanced stages of alert – basically tightening the finger on the hair-trigger. This, at a time when US missile crews were on fifteen minute alert, and at every US bomber base (including Grand Forks and MInot), there were always a couple of B-52s loaded with nukes, their crews in a ready room yards away, warmed up and ready to take off on five minutes’ notice
  • The US, responding to the Soviet deployment of “SS20” intermediate range missiles to eastern Europe, sent missiles of our own to Western Europe.
  • The Soviets spent millions of dollars of hard-earned foreign currency to support a “peace” movement – against US nukes in Europe.
  • During talks over these nukes in Rejkjavik, Iceland, President Reagan called Premiere Gorbachev’s bluff, and walked out. The world’s landed punditry solemnly intoned it was the most dangerous event in human history. (In fact, Reagan called Gorbachev’s bluff, Gorbachev blinked. It was the beginning of the end of the USSR – but nobody knew it then).
  • And the entire time, half a million US troops and a ready-for-war NATO (in 1980, the militaries of most NATO countries were 4-6 times larger than they are today) faced something like a million Soviet and “Warsaw Pact” soldiers across a completely militarized border that split Germany into two countries.
Again – not commenting on yesterday’s events themselves. Just the reactions I’m seeing.

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100 responses to “I Wanna See Some History…”

  1. nerdbert Avatar
    nerdbert

    Obama drew red lines; Trump didn’t even bother to draw one, he just enforced the lines already drawn by international agreement.

    On the one hand, I’m not happy that Trump did what he did. But I’d be even less happy that no statement was made that the barbarism of gas attacks on civilians is inappropriate, and all that the Europeans and Obama would do is flap their mouths and appear pious. Color me conflicted.

    Still, I wonder if Trump’s reaction is colored by the fact that Xi is in town visiting him. A casual display of force rapidly deployed in the face of someone who’s being aggressive is always helpful when negotiations begin.

  2. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Where are the additional sanctions against Putin who protects Assad?

    The problem with Trump doing this without congressional approval is he has no one to deflect to, this will be interesting.

  3. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    If you trust the MSM, this attack thing will amaze you, because you will believe that Obama got rid of all of Syria’s chemical weapons back in ’13.

  4. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    “What will we get for bombing Syria besides more debt and a possible long term conflict? Obama needs Congressional approval.”
    Donald J. Trump

    Who knew that war could be so complicated?

  5. bikebubba Avatar
    bikebubba

    I think the Syrian response more or less tells us that Trump did right here. They claimed–I believe falsely but let’s take them at their word for argument’s sake–that their attack merely hit someone else’s chemical weapons dump.

    OK, so they admitted is that they purposely attacked an area with a lot of noncombatants–that they committed a war crime. I can’t envision how we’re supposed to feel guilty about retaliating for a clear war crime, and if Trump plays his cards right by pointing this out, he can make the Russians and Iranians look rather silly and bring them to the table for serious negotiations on Syria.

    And, ahem, put to rest silly leftist notions that he’s the one (and not Obama and Clinton) in the back pocket of the Kremlin.

  6. Dog Gone Avatar
    Dog Gone

    If Trump really gave a damn about ” beautiful babies dying” he would care when they died in special forces and drone attacks, and he would care when the died from hunger and lack of medical care exasperated by his legislative proposals.

    Trump only cares about how to manipulate to benefit Trump.

  7. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Where the sanctions against Xi for supporting Kim Jong Un?

  8. bikebubba Avatar
    bikebubba

    MP: H1B enforcement heightened (need to find jobs for expat Chinese students who might have learned some dangerous thinking patterns here), greater scrutiny of Chinese moves in the Spratlys, tariff threat…..

    Really, we can quibble over whether this particular move is “the” right move in the situation–I certainly don’t want war–but to me it’s hard to argue with the principle of retaliation for so obvious a war crime. Worth noting as well is that the Russians haven’t provided any evidence of a facility being hit that way a few days back. We should be daring them to defend a war crime like this.

  9. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Mattis and McMaster surely drew up options with sequellae. HR must have explained to Trump that a violent act usually engenders a violent response.
    There must be some sort of follow-on plans.
    One worry is that Trump’s ratings up-tick after the bombing and he decides this is a trick worth repeating when his numbers drop.
    That would certainly fit with the 12year old mentality.

  10. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Facts are things that are true, now forever, always.
    Until Politifact “retracts” their “factiness”: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/apr/05/revisiting-obama-track-record-syrias-chemical-weap/
    Google rolled out their “fact checking” service today. Nothing I have heard from Google, or Facebook, or the “fact checking” organizations themselves addresses the most important criticism of the “fake news” detecting and the “fact checking” business (and it is a business).
    How do you tell the difference between an opinion and a fact? This is the nut of the matter, and the fact checkers have avoided ansering that question, presumably because they have no answer.
    Hugh Hewitt had an issue with Politifact last week. Hewitt claimed on his radio show that Obamacare was in a “death spiral”: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/mar/26/hugh-hewitt/obamacare-death-spiral/
    Politifact said Hewitt’s claim was false.
    Hewitt argued with Politifact. They seemed to be doing some cherry-picking about what the term “death spiral” means.
    Hewitt followed up with an interview with Aaron Sharockman, an executive director at Politifact.
    The interview is embarrassing for Sharockman. He says he is a college graduate, and that his education was in political science and journalism.
    He did not know the name “Kim Philby.”
    He did not understand the meaning of the term “adverse selection.”
    He literally did not understand the meaning of the terms used in the government health care debate.
    Hewitt rightly called out Sharockman for running a totalitarian organization. They want to turn opinions into true or false statements of fact — when it suits Politifact’s ideology (Politifact subjected Marco Rubio to “fact checks” more frequently in 2016 than they subjected Harry Reid to “fact checks” in his entire political career).

  11. Alt-Good Swiftee Avatar
    Alt-Good Swiftee

    Muzzy animals bumping each other off like flies. Why in the hell would anyone want to put a damper on that party?

    Tomahawks cost around $832,000 a pop. We fired 59 (why not 60?). The tab for this party comes to $49,880,000. For that kind of loot, we could have air dropped enough K-Bar knives, Kalishnakovs & ammo, RPG’s and hell, Sarin, for them to wipe one another right off the planet.

    What was Trump thinking?

  12. Mitch Berg Avatar
    Mitch Berg

    As opposed to his predecessor, who killed sorts of children (aka expendable brown props) in drone and rocket attacks over eight years.

    You were quiet then, DG.

    Why?

    Why do you hate Muslims so much?

    ———-

    By the way – please note that this is the ONLY comment of yours that I’ve approved in close to four months now.

    And it’ll be the last for a while, unless you shape up.

  13. Alt-Good Swiftee Avatar
    Alt-Good Swiftee

    The lying MSM could be used to good purpose here, too.

    Leak a fake news story to CNN that al-Assad called Kim Jong Un a “Cuck”, and spread around some memes of Assad pissing on a portrait of Kim.

    Stand back and let nature take it’s course.

  14. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Watch it, Emery, you are on the same page as Dog Gone, and she is a lunatic.

  15. Joe Doakes Avatar
    Joe Doakes

    Most of the media and all of the pearl-clutching Liberals are two-dimensional thinkers with short-term memories.

    Scott Adams – the Dilbert guy – has an interesting take on it. And since he’s been dead-on ball accurate* about Trump for the last year, his is an opinion to take seriously.

    *it’s an industry term

  16. bikebubba Avatar
    bikebubba

    I’m very happy Nikki Haley is laying down the law in the U.N. today, telling the Bolivians that no, we will not be discussing this in private. You want to argue that either a conventional or chemical attack against noncombatants shouldn’t invite retaliation? Take the podium, and we’ll try and get some of the grieving mothers in the audience to give you proper feedback. No, they’re not hailing a taxi, folks. Yes, we are going to translate the expletives they’re using for your benefit.

  17. justplainangry Avatar
    justplainangry

    Mitch, thank you for allowing a little comic relief at DG’s expense. More proof of how demented, deranged, deluded and disjointed the left is.

  18. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Little known fact: the UN as an institution considers the use, or potential use, of WMD and chemical weapons as particularly heinous, mostly because they are indiscriminate. Put your people in camps and starve them to death you’ll get stern speeches. Gas them and you’re fair game.

  19. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    FWIW, Assad says it wasn’t his gas — it was a stockpile on the ground in an enemy target he attacked. This asks more questions than it answers, however.
    Politically this may work for Trump, but as a conservative I don’t like it. We don’t need ME oil anymore. Assad’s enemies are not our allies. We should be disengaging from the ME, other than to address issues relating to the defense of ourselves and our allies in the region.

  20. bikebubba Avatar
    bikebubba

    MP, I’m thinking we’re stuck dealing with the ME because Europe depends on them for oil. If we don’t want Europe to go flakier than they already area, we’ve got to mind things in the ME.

    Did a bit of googling on DG’s claims, and one interesting thing is that, apart from some dubious claims by the Taliban, there have been no civilian deaths, child or otherwise, clearly attributable to U.S. drone strikes or special forces action. That would be “under the Obama regime”, of course. In the same way, as no Trump legislation for welfare or healthcare has gotten through, the number of kids going hungry, suffering, or worse due to Trump is….zero.

    DG really reminds me of little so much as the cannon Dave Barry writes about in this column….

    http://www.miamiherald.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/dave-barry/article28701559.html

  21. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Good one Woolly. What do you make of the Alt-right (InfoWars) theory that the gas attack was a “false flag,” designed to trick Trump into intervening more forcefully in the Syrian war.?

  22. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    I know nothing about infowars, Emery. People who irrationally ally themselves with Trump are as foolish as people who irrationally oppose him.

  23. Night Writer Avatar

    False flag attacks are a time-honored tradition to manipulate foreign policy. Remember the Maine? The Reichstag fire? The Hunger Games?

  24. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Woolly: WikiLeaks and InfoWars claim Islamist extremists were probably behind the chemical attack, not the Syrian government. They both infer that Trump got rolled. I would agree that you don’t have to know anything to be a conspiracy theorist. In fact, knowledge is a hindrance.

    I thought it was my own cynicism, but my immediate thought was, “Wag the Dog.”
    That said, I’m more than wiling to call it a tactical punitive strike that al-Assad’s been long overdue in getting. We’ll see where things lie come Monday Geo-politically and the strike’s more immediate secondary order effect on operations against ISIS in Raqqa.

  25. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell says that Trump got Putin to get Assad to gas his own people so Trump could send in the Tomahawks and make him a hero.
    Yes, really.
    Lawrence O’Donnell‏Verified account
    @Lawrence

    Follow
    More
    Tonight @TheLastWord let’s see if anyone can convince me that Putin didn’t plan all of this to help his fan in the White House. 10pm

    https://twitter.com/Lawrence/status/850422951484829698

  26. Scott Hughes Avatar
    Scott Hughes

    Gas attack is the weapon of a desperate failed state. Syria is a failed state, without the backing of Russia it’s likely the Assad regime would already be gone. I wouldn’t be surprised if Assad where to use chemical weapons again that the next US attack would hit him directly, to his demise. Personally I have no issue with using the forces of the US against those that would use these heinous weapons.

    It’s said that Assad claims he has no chemical weapons. Does that include those that are still speculated to have been sent to surreptitiously from Iraq in 2003?

  27. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Susan Rice, January 16, 2017

    Obama articulated this red line that Syrian President Bashar Assad could not cross, and then he used chemical weapons and the U.S. did not respond.

    We were able to find a solution that didn’t necessitate the use of force that actually removed the chemical weapons that were known from Syria, in a way that the use of force would never have accomplished. Our aim in contemplating the use of force following the use of chemical weapons in August of 2013 was not to intervene in the civil war, not to become involved in the combat between Assad and the opposition, but to deal with the threat of chemical weapons by virtue of the diplomacy that we did with Russia and with the Security Council. We were able to get the Syrian government to voluntarily and verifiably give up its chemical weapons stockpile.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/01/16/510047606/obama-adviser-susan-rice-cites-syrian-war-as-biggest-disappointment

  28. Scott Hughes Avatar
    Scott Hughes

    MP, hell of a point!… Rice and NPR cannot be serious!! I’m still of the belief that the Bengahzi affair was related to Obama admin illegal smuggling of weapons to Syrian rebels. Hillary and her State Dept. worked the tip of the spear. When their manipulation of Libya went to crap Rice (a lying fool) was left with the cover up.

    If Assad didn’t have the chemical weapons then who would have provided them? Assad (a liar, Russia, or Iran??).

  29. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Politifact will probably rate Rice’s comments “True,” and then downgrade it to “mostly true” when informed about the Syrian gas deaths.
    If you read the interview of Hewitt and Sharockman from Politifact, you will see the problem. Hewitt is a lawyer. I think his day job is teaching law. But he has an informed opinion that Obamacare is in a death spiral. Sharokman says he was wrong, Obamacare as a factual matter is not in a death spiral. To back him up, Sharockman brings up the opinion of the Congressional Budget Office, apparently in the belief that it produces facts, and not opinions.
    I’ve run into this weird, irrational mindset with lefties before, especially regarding global warming theory. They believe that preponderance of evidence gives you the “best” opinion, and that opinion can be acted upon as a fact.
    This is a bizarre thought process. Facts are what is agreed upon to be true. “facts” don’t compel us to do anything. Factual knowledge that is a priori is especially tricky, because, like Obamacare crashing, it has yet to happen. It’s failure is not apparent by sense information. The failure of Obamacare not only has not existed in the past, it does not exist now, and it may not in the future. The question becomes what is reasonable to believe about Obamacare, because its future state is unknown.
    The idea that you are not allowed to have opinion on Obamacare being in a death spiral because of something the CBO said is ridiculous. It is the equivalent of me telling you in October that it is a fact that Hillary will win the 2016 presidential election.

    http://www.hughhewitt.com/politifacts-aaron-sharockman/

  30. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Scott Hughes: Can you clarify what Trumps Syria policy is? You would have to know that before you can claim its better than Obama’s policy, right?

    There does not appear to be a coherent policy and comprehensive strategy for Syria, the Mid-East, and associated players (i.e, Russia) in place. We’re bombing Syria but are enacting policies banning vetted, innocent refugees from this war zone from entering our country.

    There is no Syria policy here, merely window dressing.

  31. gl whisler Avatar
    gl whisler

    Just a reminder. What John Effing Kerry and minions said was that “Syria got rid of all the ‘reported’ chemical weapons.”

  32. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Let’s be clear about what is happening:

    During Obama, Syria used chemical weapons. Obama could have attacked – which would have been easy. But instead he negotiated with Russia to rid Syria of all chemical weapons. Syria knew that if they used chemical weapons again that there would be a price to pay – and Russia’s credibility with Obama was on the line too. Obama did not put up with Russian aggression without punishing them.
    How do we know all that? Because no chemical weapons were used again during Obama’s presidency.

    Nex; Trump says that the U.S. will disengage from Syria. 3 days later Assad uses chemical weapons. The timing is hardly a coincidence.

    So Trump, who wants to be seen as the anti-Obama, orders an attack. It’s very easy to give the order without considering what’s next.

    So now it looks like Trump cares about the Syrian children. But consider, a chemical murder is terrible, but a child is just as dead from a Syrian barrel bomb, starvation, no medical care, etc…

    MBerg’s moderation queue/purgatory appears to be be on vacation. So I’ll repost:

    Let’s simply call it a tactical punitive strike Assad’s been long overdue in getting and see where things lie come Monday geo-politically and the strike’s more immediate secondary order effect on operations against ISIS in Raqqa.

  33. Joe Doakes Avatar
    Joe Doakes

    You’re right, Emery. The timing is suspicious. It looks a lot like another Deep State act to sabotage the new administration. it must be, since you have proven conclusively there were no chemical weapons of any sort anywhere within the borders of Syria during the Obama administration. They must have been snuck in after the inauguration to make Trump look bad. And who would have the ability to do that? CIA? State? Holdovers from Susan Rice and Hillary Clinton’s regime?

    If Trump had done nothing, the media would scream. If Trump bombed Syrian, the media would scream. If Trump put boots on the ground, the media would scream. Pretty much, the media is going to scream so it doesn’t matter what Trump does. He picked a middle-of-the-road proportional response that does no lasting damage but makes him look decisive and presidential in response to evil while at the same time proving he’s not Putin’s puppet.

    You got played again and don’t even realize it.

  34. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Emery wrote:
    “How do we know all that? Because no chemical weapons were used again during Obama’s presidency.”
    But the NY Times tells us:

    But the operation took far longer than expected and raised questions about whether all the materials were accounted for. The head of the international monitoring body, the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, complained in an internal report about misleading statements from Damascus and expressed concern about possible undeclared chemical weapons.

    Since then, the organization, working with the United Nations, has found that the Syrian government used chlorine gas as a weapon three times in 2014 and 2015, violating the treaty. Rebel fighters, doctors and antigovernment activists say there have been numerous other chlorine attacks, including at least two in the past week, in one case killing a doctor as he worked.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/world/middleeast/syria-gas-attack.html

  35. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Will this end the civil war in favor of the rebels? No. Will it prevent Assad from launching future chemical weapons strikes? No. So what did we accomplish? Incrementalism. A little bit of war, enough to say we “did something”, but not enough to effect the political outcome we seek. If you want to remove Assad, which I’d support, great, round up 200,000 + troops and let’s get to work. If not, what did we just spend $100 million on? Blowing up a tarmac?

    If you’re going to fight a war, fight to win. Does 59 Tomahawk missiles in an empty airfield do anything other than prolong this civil war?

  36. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    JD: don’t shoot the messenger. Your outrage should be directed to the Alt-right fake news websites. The amusing thing about the Alt-right is that *everything* is a false flag attack. It’s like a weird fetish with them. 9-11? False flag. Sandy Hook? False Flag. Malaysian Air 370? False flag. Nerve gas attack in the midst of a brutal civil war? Of course, false flag.

    Both InfoWars and Wikileaks are known promoters of Russian propaganda stories.

  37. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Trump not Jacksonian enough for you, Emery?

    As Joe Doakes mentions, the media is so awful in its Trump coverage, you can believe whatever you like about Trump, since everything you will read about in the MSM will always say the same thing about him no matter what he does.

  38. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Lawrence O’Donnell is alt-right?
    “Nerve gas attack in the midst of a brutal civil war? Of course, false flag.”

  39. Scott Hughes Avatar
    Scott Hughes

    I find it preposterous that some will say that Trump missile attack on a Syrian air base in response to their use of chemical weapons was bad judgment.

    However Clinton lobbing cruise missiles at a few tents in Afghanistan or an aspirin factory in Sudan was a good thing.

    Or Obama’s use of drone attacks on bad guys (including US citizens) was okey dokey. Need we mention O’s airstrikes on Gaddafi in 2011, the explanation for the action was protection of the Libyan people.

    If you’re a D POTUS it’s one thing, if you’re a R POTUS it’s another.

  40. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Woolly: Jackson’s personal appeal was that he was not ‘of Washington’, like Trump, but yet he proved to have the talent to organize a very successful political movement of smallholders and slave-owners that he was able to lead for 20 years. Trump neither has the time nor the political talent to establish such a movement. He’s simply a big pie in the face to establishment Washington, and not a particularly effective one. Once they see how little he is achieving, establishment Washington will simply try to contain him and wait for his demise.

  41. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    The containment so far has not been done by DC, but by rogue federal judges. I think that it is fair to say that a judge who considers an act legal if done by Obama and illegal if done by Trump has gone rogue because the judge is ignoring the law in favor of personalities.

  42. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Blame the judges? You must be kidding me.
    Trump has shown himself to be deeply incurious about public affairs and foreign relations and thus ignorant of both, incapable of absorbing criticism without tantrums in the most criticized office in the world, incapable of delegation to subordinates due to trust issues, and incapable of forming a plan of any complexity. You can get away with that when your business is largely one of self-promotion and real estate deals with a small staff. As a President he is totally out of his depth.

  43. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Yes, I can blame the judges. The Hawaiian AG who stopped the latest immigration halt order gave a talk in Waimea on the Big Island last night. He gave an in-depth explanation for the reasoning he used to block Trump’s order. You can read the story here: http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/local-news/ag-chin-defends-travel-ban-lawsuit-waimea
    Chin brought the case before Watson.
    The AG of Hawaii isn’t even elected by Hawaii’s voters, he is appointed by the governor. The AG of Hawaii does not set immigration policy for the United States. The president and congress do. The AG of Hawaii regularly goes to court to defend Hawaii laws provide race-based advantage to certain groups of Hawaii citizens. It is a frikkin’ joke. We are a republic. The ethnic and cultural makeup of immigrants to our country is not determined by appointed judges.

  44. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    One thing I learned from the initial attack on Syria is how (relatively) little battle damage is produced when 59 Tomahawks strike one target area.

    Imagine a hypothetical re-run of WWII in which the US has a large quantity of Aegis destroyers and Tomahawks and chooses to use them as our primary instrument against Japan and Germany to avoid a prolonged land war in Asia or Europe. If, in this hypothetical war, we managed to deliver 59 tomahawk strikes three times a week on targets in Germany and two times per week on targets in Japan, how long would it have taken to achieve victory? Could we have won both wars in the 1942-45 window that old-fashioned methods achieved (ignore the discussion of the Soviets for this hypothetical)?

    A single thousand pound bomb is a fearsome thing when it hits your house.But it is pretty puny when the context is larger.

    This says to me, don’t imagine that 21st century technology is going to win wars on its own.

    It also says that the classic flaws in air-power doctrine are equally true with or without pilots.

  45. Joe Doakes Avatar
    Joe Doakes

    You continue to maintain that the Obama administration removed every trace of poison gas from Syria, Emery, and therefore conclude that Trump is a sucker for bombing the airfield.

    Did you notice that your buddies no longer agree with you?

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/apr/05/revisiting-obama-track-record-syrias-chemical-weap/

  46. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Trump does not have to be good for Obama to be bad.
    Trump does not have to be good for Hillary to be bad.
    One of those Tomahawks costs more than I will pay in income taxes in my working life.
    I hope mine did not miss.

  47. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Emery, you are trying to change the subject, but I’ll bite.
    The strategic bombing carried out by the allies in WW2 had an entirely different purpose than Trump’s drone strikes (or Obama’s or Bush’s drone strikes, for that matter). In WW2 the idea was to destroy the enemy’s ability to produce war material. It was incredibly wasteful because it had to be. We could afford to drop 10,000 pounds of ordnance to get one casualty or destroy one vehicle. The Germans couldn’t.
    We aren’t trying to destroy Assad’s war making ability with 59 Tomahawks. We’re trying to make him pay a high price for using chemical weapons. He will have to pay to repair and replace what we destroyed, or go without. It may be that he is less able to afford the loss of his airfield and equipment than we are to afford the cost of the Tomahawk strikes. That’s what generals are supposed to figure out. It’s why they get paid the big bucks.

  48. Mammuthus Primigenius Avatar
    Mammuthus Primigenius

    Essential News from The Associated Press
    AAA Apr. 3, 2017 4:12 AM ET
    Bit by bit, Trump methodically undoing Obama policies

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Amid the turmoil over staff shake-ups, blocked travel bans and the Russia cloud hanging overhead, President Donald Trump is steadily plugging away at a major piece of his agenda: Undoing Obama.
    From abortion to energy to climate change and personal investments, Trump is keeping his promises in methodically overturning regulations and policies adopted when Barack Obama was president.

    https://goo.gl/YJT5D7

  49. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    JD: I can confirm this; I try to troll Breitbart every evening for a few minutes and I haven’t seen Russian troll activity like I did yesterday since the election.
    The Russian trolls are not happy with Trump at the moment. /s

  50. Emery Avatar
    Emery

    Woolly: I was surprised at how little consequential damage results from the complete missile load of 2 aegis destroyers. The airfield was up an running in a day. Damaged, no doubt, but operational. If our cruise missiles, as part of traditional carrier battle group force, represent the threat of proximate force projection, this event will lower the “fear level” in other bad-acting nations.

    The precision is an asset. But the actual Boom is pretty small.

    JD: The facts: in order to avoid causing Russian casualties, the US sensibly notified the Kremlin and military commanders that the strike would occur. This enabled the Russians to move their people to safety. It also enabled the Assad regime to move all its important people and material. In addition the US avoided targeting the store of chemical weapons. What they did hit had no military value.

    So what does it mean, really? It means that Trump, as always, is mugging for the camera. He’s posturing for his supporters who don’t care enough to understand that it was a totally empty gesture. As for Assad, he’s got the message: it’s business as usual. https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releases/News-Release-View/Article/1144598/statement-from-pentagon-spokesman-capt-jeff-davis-on-us-strike-in-syria?source=GovDelivery

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