Yeah, I guess swiftee polled all his close liberal friends about the War on Drugs. It's hard to reach statistical significance, of course, when your sample is zero.

Another example of wingnuts making strawman arguments. If swiftee is interested in "lefties" raising the alarm over the war on drugs, he could go over to ACLU.org and search "war on drugs." You'll find plenty of pre-2001 alarm-raising.

Once again, the facts appear to be biased against you, wingnuts!

Bad Link for Swiftee.

Well when swiftee wants to characterize the positions of "lefties," maybe he should broaden his research pool beyond his usual diet of nra.org, whitehouse.gov and asianbrides.com.

Anyone who is foolish enough to believe that the democrats are the defenders of our personal and political liberties needs to review the history of the 1996 anti-terrorism act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiterrorism_and_Effective_Death_Penalty_Act_of_1996

I think the post that Mitch is refering to is this:
http://restraininorder.blogspot.com/2006/05/attention-all-of-you-ignorant-wastes.html

The only 'leftists' Swiftee mentions by name are FDR & Bill Clinton -- FDR for the centralized command & control of the economy called the New Deal (I think the foundation for that was laid down in Wilson's militarized economy durting WWI, but we'll let that slide) and Bill Clinton for his support of the War on Drugs.
FDR pushed the US in the direction of his "better living through exercise of collective will" model then popular in Italy, Germany, and the USSR. Clinton and Gore both supported the war on drugs. I don't think it's any more of a stretch to identify FDR, both Clintons, and Al Gore as leftists than it is to call GW Bush a conservative.
And I almost forgot -- the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 I linked to in a previous post was cosponsored by Joe Biden in the Senate & Chuck Schumer iin the House. If they aren't getting the votes of leftists then who the heck keeps electing them?

I wandered over to gander at swiftee's scribbling...

Holy Crap! The guy is absolutely unhinged crazy!

I wouldn't want to run into him after he's had a few too many.

You want unhinged crazy? Listen to an Algore speech. Or read an angryclown post. The level of coherency is equivalent.

Nice try, Kerm. You're still banned.

Sir, you presume too much. Consider this a cyber slap accross your grease-painted face.

Since Angryclown became the Cowarddodger over on the other thread, I'll post it on this thread:

http://stuartbuck.blogspot.com/2005/12/privacy.html

Stuart Buck posted this December 21, 2005, so that's the context it's in:

"Lots and lots of people have been going ballistic over the fact that NSA computers have monitored a select number of phone calls made internationally. Clearly unconstitutional, they say. Clearly illegal, they say. Grounds for impeachment, some even say.

On a different note, the year is ending soon. People's W-2 forms from work will be coming out, as will receipts from charities, etc. It will soon be time once again for the yearly ritual whereby everyone meekly and mildly registers with a government agency that monitors:

Your address, your place of employment, your salary, the names and social security numbers of your children or other dependents (plus their birth dates); the amounts you may have given to charity; the amount you spend on a mortgage and with what bank; the amount of interest you received on any savings account; the amount you gained from any stocks or investments you might have sold during the past year; any money that you gained from rentals, alimony, unemployment compensation, or IRA distributions; any money that you spent on student loan interest, health savings accounts, child care, care for the elderly, adoption, 401Ks, or moving; etc., etc., etc.

All of this takes a lot of time, of course, so I'd expect everyone to take a short breather before returning to the all-important task of denouncing the NSA for monitoring a few international phone calls made by people associated with Al Qaeda. After all, no free society can tolerate *that* sort of invasion of privacy."

What's wrong, AC, lost your nerve for facing the truth behind that greasepaint?

Bravo, Paul.

Oh, and look what I found over from one of Patrick Frey's commenters:

http://patterico.com/2006/05/15/4570/our-nazi-federal-government/#comments

"I recently received from the U.S. Department of Commerce a brochure entitled “The American Community Survey” that I’m supposed to fill out and return. A note I received a few days earlier advised me that my “response is required by law.” Among the items the Commerce Department wants to know in this 24-page survey are the names, ages, jobs, employers, ethnicities, education levels, total income, sources of income of everyone in my household, as well as the amounts of my mortgage payment, utility bills, water and sewer bills, property taxes... Much more is requested, but the list above will give you an idea of just how inquisitive the Commerce Department is.

This is in addition to the 1040 I recently filed with the IRS, which tells the government, among other things, how much I make, whom I work for, what I have invested in, from whom I have borrowed money, and my bank account numbers.

I submit that the acquisition and retention by the government of the information requested via the income tax and the American Community Survey represent a far greater intrusion into my life and privacy than my phone number in a database being used to identify terrorist suspects — if for no other reason than the fact that the IRS has investigative and enforcement power and the NSA does not."

The next comment is a response to a snide comment that GWB is investigating reporters to find out who's leaking:

"Thankfully it was people like you who held the Clintons responsible for illegally obtaining FBI files and “suggesting” IRS audits of their political opponents. Oh, wait. That’s right. That didn’t happen. When the abuses you’re worried about in this case actually happened, they were met with silence or, at best, weak protests.

So, yeah, the potential for abuse is there, but there’s no evidence that the abuse has happened. If that evidence turns up, then we can talk."

Want more? Here's this:

"Not to mention that if you’re lucky enough to be a New Yorker, you can get a break on your property taxes through the STAR program if you are willing to give the Town Clerk a copy of your tax return."

Then there's this from Kevin Murphy:

"According to the Supreme Court, Smith v Maryland, there is no invasion of privacy with pen registers."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=442&invol=735

Nor (US v Miller) is there any privacy issue when a 3rd party, who we’ve let keep records for us, gives them to the government."

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=425&invol=435

Kevin's conclusion:

"What amazes me is that the folks who’ve supported IRS bulk subpoenas of bank and credit card records over the years, as necessary to tax collection, are the same folks who seem so upset with the NSA."

Yeah Paul, the NSA is really going after terrorists:

It was reported that the United States was analyzing phone call records of reporters from ABC News, the New York Times, and the Washington Post to determine the identities of CIA employees who leak information to the press.

Seth

Good. Those CIA employees belong in jail. Friggin traitors.

Fulcrum wrote: "It was reported that the United States was analyzing phone call records of reporters from ABC News, the New York Times, and the Washington Post to determine the identities of CIA employees who leak information to the press."

Change the words "leak information to the press" to "divulged classified information to the enemy". Makes a hell of a lot of difference, doesn't it?

I find it funny that you guys are more concerned with people who leak classified information than the fact that we torture "enemy combatants" in secret prisons. But hey we are at war right - anything goes right?

Fulcrum

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin

Your absolutely right, Fulc. Don't file an tax return next year.

Fulcrum, maybe you can explain to me why, when you're talking about illegal wiretapping, these nuts are on about the IRS. I'm guessing their point is that if you don't back a flat tax, you've forfeited all rights as a U.S. citizen. Hard to discern any point through the cloud of stupid that surrounds it, however.

I think we've misunderestimated angryclown's keen grasp of the obvious.

I think Kermit has a firm grasp of his froghood.

Cowarddodger said: "Fulcrum, maybe you can explain to me why, when you're talking about illegal wiretapping, these nuts are on about the IRS."

The only ones talking about illegal wiretapping is you paranoid moonbats. Because there isn't any going on. There also isn't any in the news stories, or why else would Fulcrum not provide links to those stories?

Helen Thomas tried to bring this up today, and Tony Snow crushed that argument with one stomp:

http://hotair.com/archives/the-blog/2006/05/16/video-tony-snow-vs-helen-thomas/

As for why we bring up the IRS, CluelessMime, is simple: The IRS is a GOVERNMENT AGENCY that collects LOTS of data on US CITIZENS. If you're so concerned about privacy, why do you file taxes every year? Or do you?

Fulcrum: Oh yeah, we torture detainees like the Jihadis do: Drilling a dozen holes in each arm, partially slit the throat, then stomping on the stomach so the blood spurts from the holes before finishing slicing the throat.

12 Nepalese Hostages Killed, 1 Beheaded
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/043601.php

As you say, Fulcrum, we're at war. Do you think that while we're at war a citizen should be more concerned about rumored systemic abuse of enemy combatants or the press revealing classified information to the enemy?

"Essential Liberty to purchase.. Temporary Safety...deserve neither..."

-- Benjamin Franklin"

Actually Benjamin Franklin didn't write or say that. It just happened to be on the title page of a book he published.

I see, Paul. The only people who can talk about civil liberties are the right-wing whackjobs who file rambling court petitions claiming the income tax is unconstitutional.

Congratulations! I'm filing you under "I" for "Idiot."