In other news about liars...

In 2002, President Bush was told by the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research and the Energy Department's intelligence branch that the suspect aluminum tubes are "more likely (are) intended for conventional weapons."

Also in 2002, Joe Wilson went to Niger to investigate the purported procurement efforts by Iraq and as we all know, he reported that they were most likely a hoax.

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0330nj1.htm

Although the President knew both issues were HIGHLY suspect, he still chose to use them to spread fear in his 2003 SOTU address.

We also know that as we neared the 2004 elections, the Presidents closest advisor's primary concern was keeping this information hidden because it could affect his chances for re-election.

You Mitch and everybody that supported Bush put politics, your agenda and lust for power ahead of the truth that could have avoided a war - a war that is bankrupting this country.

Is something else going on here that powerful people don't want us to know?

A high public official -- and maybe more than one -- has violated public trust. Yet all three branches of government, and much of the press, seem to have agreed to sweep it under the rug.

"Also in 2002, Joe Wilson went to Niger to investigate the purported procurement efforts by Iraq and as we all know, he reported that they were most likely a hoax."

Actually, he reported that Iraq had been in Niger, and had very likely been trying to procure Yellowcake.

He later lied about what he'd reported to the New York Times, and the New York Times fell for it.

Yeah, Doug, Wilson's entire schtick has been pretty well trashed.

You're also off topic.

Mitch, I know I'm off topic. I usually am but your thread is titled "find the liar".

I just found him for you. He's kiving in the White House.

Now, go get him big guy...

That's living... not kiving. I'm sure Mitch will point out that typo like he usually does...

Is angryclown on spring break? Doug is really a poor second.

Have you noticed that Joe Wilson and his secret agent wife, you know, the one wearing secret agent sunglasses on the cover of Vanity Fair, aren't in the news anymore? Why is that?

There are liars and then there are fools. No one can accuse Doug of being a liar.

Lest we forget the fast one Dean Johnson pulled last summer...

"With two and a half hours left before a partial government shutdown, DFL Senate Majority Leader Dean Johnson walked into a nearly empty Senate chamber and announced that the Senate was going to adjourn until this morning.

...Johnson's action was a surprise to many at the Capitol. Less than an hour before the Senate adjourned, Johnson had said they were close to reaching a deal. After the adjournment, many of his DFL colleagues were seen walking around the Senate chamber with their mouths open and their palms up."

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/06/30_scheckt_court/

"I just found him for you. He's kiving in the White House."

Except, as pointed out already, Wilson was the liar in that case.

Doug -- So when was this meeting when 3 branches of government and the media got together and decided to sweep W's transgressions under the rug? Was that the same meeting where CBS lied about Bush's war record using clearly fake documents in a blatant attempt to swing the election? Was that the meeting where Joe Wilson lied about the yellow cake issue in an attempt to embarrass the White House? Is this the meeting where Clinton, Gore, et al claimed without doubt that Iraq had WMD? Is this the meeting where Evan Thomas of Newsweek claimed the media could be worth 15 points for Kerry?
Kind of tough to avoid a war when our major population centers are attacked, but I'm sure you'd find a way to capitulate. Every country in the world wishes they could be as 'bankrupt' as we are.
Now, back to Mitch's regularly scheduled thread about Dean Johnson etc.

This story was in the strib today

http://www.startribune.com/587/story/341921.html

"A group of New London and Spicer clergy members administered something of a public spanking to the Rev. Brent Waldemarsen this week, publishing a letter in the Willmar newspaper that rebuked him for secretly recording Senate Majority Leader Dean Johnson when Johnson spoke to the ministerial group in January."

The strib didn't tell you that the "group" only included three pastors from two ELCA Churches in Spicer.

Here is the letter from the three pastors, it's worth reading
http://www.wctrib.com/archive/index.cfm?id=59605&page=article

I had to go to the West Central Tribune website to find out who the pastors where, and then google the names of the pastors to find out where they served.

"Kind of tough to avoid a war when our major population centers are attacked, but I'm sure you'd find a way to capitulate."

Iraq attacked one of our major population centers?!

Another thing

Dean Johnson's own church (Calvary Lutheran, Willmar) is a member of the Word Alone Network, which was created essentially to resist the ELCA's liberal wing efforts to ordain practicing homosexuals and blessing same sex unions. To my knowledge Word Alone represents the conservative wing of the ELCA (at least thos that have not yet abandoned the Synod). It seems that Johnson may be at odds with his own congregation.

Just a clarification on Word Alone. That organization was formed to oppose the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America's plan to affiliate with the Episcopalian Church. The major contention was over the historic episcopate. Only in recent years has Word Alone become an opponent to the ELCA's attempt to redefine committed relationships (marriage). Word Alone actually held the most balanced discussion of the issue about 2 years ago. They heard from an equal number of speakers on both sides of the sexuality issue. Afterwards they unanimously voted to oppose changes that would have allowed blessings of same-sex unions in ELCA churches and the ordination of non-celibate GLBT pastors.

However, Word Alone's main purpose was to oppose the Episcopal Church's enforcement of their version of the historic episcopate in order to affiliate with the ELCA. It was NOT around the sexuality issue.

Beeeej'

The first attack on the U.S. in WWII was the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. The U.S. response was to attack the French in North Africa. Go figure.

When you are fighting a world war, you fight all over the world. Your enemy cannot be allowed either sanctuaries or allies.

BJB:

You're absolutely correct on your history. My bad for not checking the facts before posting. But from where I sit, it is one and the same thing. The Episcopal Church has for a very long time been putting aside the scriptures and has instead become the church of fashionable opinions.

Funny... all the responses regarding Wilson but nothing about the Hadley briefing...

Very telling...

Funny - all the questions about the Hadley Briefing, but not a word about raping girl scouts in the ass.

Very telling.

Dougie, Dougie, Dougie,

> In 2002, President Bush was told by the State
> Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research
> and the Energy Department's intelligence branch
> that the suspect aluminum tubes are "more likely
> (are) intended for conventional weapons."

Do you understand that sometimes criminals try to hide their intent? For example, Palestinians have carried munitions in ambulances, so maybe they wouldn't be stopped. Iraqis might have used a much less efficient size centrifuge tube, to make it look like it's something that it's not. That was the open question for the experts. Was the aluminum tube made inefficient on purpose, to hide its real use? American processors only have to worry about the efficiency, so they don’t have to make their processing equipment look like it has a more innocent use. The question was, is it a dual-use item? The tight specifications were suspicious.

Ed said,

Funny - all the questions about the Hadley Briefing, but not a word about raping girl scouts in the ass.

Now Ed, why did you need to go and bring up Bush's highschool arrest record? I thought his daddy had all of those record expunged when Jr. was running for Texas Governor?

RBMN said,

Was the aluminum tube made inefficient on purpose, to hide its real use?

That is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. On one hand, Iraq is an imminent threat - oh sorry, a growing threat on the other hand they are building a weapons program with equipment deemed inefficient and actually unsuited for the stated purpose.

All that with 1800 UN weapons inspectors on the ground.

Good God you people are desperate.

Yeah, nothing gets by those dauntless UN inspectors. Next to the UN peacekeepers, they're the most infallible stewards of world peace.

There are liars and then there are fools. No one can accuse Doug of being a liar.
Posted by Kermit at March 31, 2006 09:12 AM

It just needed to be said again.

Kermit said,

Are you afraid of your 12 year old water heater too Kermit? It's awfully inefficient and could be used to enrich uranium.

We'd better send in troops into your basement.

Of sorry, I forgot you live in a trailer home with your 300 pound son.

Some of the interesting facts to me about the 3 Lutheran Pastors who excoriate the Pastor who taped Sen. Dean Johnson are:

- The Strib's reporting of it, can you feel the glee being suppressed. Shouldn't the Strib indicate that it is 3 ELCA pastors from 2 congregations? The article keeps saying "a group" which is technically correct but the reader might conclude it was larger and more interdenominational.

- The pastors accusation against the recorder of political motivation. Yeah probably correct but did they excoriate Dean Johnson for the same motivation at the meeting? He out-and-out lied to them directly which never would have been caught had the recorder not been turned on. He lied with an implied political motivation. I have not seen Johnson’s required letter of apology to the pastors group but the fact is that he would have gotten away with it EXCEPT for the fact that it was recorded.

- The pastors quickly forgive Dean Johnson for his apology. Shouldn't they require more of him like recusing himself from any proceedings regarding this issue?

- What was their role when they heard these comments? In the Lutheran church we confess our sins both what we have done and what we have left undone. When these pastors heard Dean Johnson say this, shouldn't they have reported such judicial misconduct to the proper authorities? A judge commenting to a legislator about an issue that could possibly come before the court? The legacy press would have had a field day if this was a U.S. Supreme Court and the issue had been abortion. These pastors had a responsibility to report this and they failed. They need to look within at their own immoral behavior before removing specks from someone else's eye.

- It is unclear to me that secret taping at a meeting of ministers is scathingly unethical. It sounds to me like it was a public meeting or perhaps there is some unwritten code of ethics that when clergy get together they can say what they want. Perhaps they need to put up the jester. I am not clear on how all this came down but if I had the tape I might have tried to handle this differently, a private conversation with Dean Johnson demanding a retraction or clarification.

- The tone and side comments of the pastor's letter is truly snide. For instance "We wait with bated breath for your apology..." For heaven's sake, how demeaning. Then the accusations that the recorder lacks interest in poverty, affordable health care, gambling, racism, etc. is disgustingly speculative on their part. They accuse the sin of pride while they puff themselves up on their self aggrandized view that only they care for the poor. Hey you three pastors, don't hit each other too hard with those logs sticking out of your own eyes.

- It is interesting that the co-pastor for Kathryn Hartley congregation did not sign with her. Maybe it means nothing like he wasn't there but maybe there is a rift.

- The pastors are not handling this according to Lutheran tradition nor Scriptural tradition which is to go privately to the offender and ask him to repent. Here they go straight to the public and then rip the recorder for the same reason. Duck! Logs are swinging from eyes everywhere!

- This is an odd statement from their letter, "If it were a moral issue, why did you choose to expose Senator Johnson’s comments through a political organization?" Recently all bishops of the ELCA sent a letter to Congress (a bi-partisan political organization) calling the national budget immoral because of cuts to student loans that they blamed on taxcuts for the wealthy. Did these pastors attack their bishops for this?

- The pastors’ claim that the the legislature is legislating human sexuality is incorrect (the pastors are guilty of another sin). The issue is about the basic building block of our society (and every other society in the world for the past several thousand years) and how it is defined for the benefit of our society.

Overall if one of these were my pastors, I would privately ask them to stop being so haughty and review their own sins of omission.

"Kermit said,

Are you afraid of your 12 year old water heater too Kermit? It's awfully inefficient and could be used to enrich uranium.

We'd better send in troops into your basement.

Of sorry, I forgot you live in a trailer home with your 300 pound son. "

Wow. Convinces me. Masterful arguement from the left. IMPEACH NOW!

Couldn't agree more, buzz. Doug is a Master Debater. Nothing gets by ol' Doug. I worry that the "trailer home with your 300 pound son" is a bit of projection, though. Assistant manager at CUB and living in a trailer home could explain Doug's barely concealed rage.

And Doug, he is 300 pounds. Six foot three. Could pick your sorry ass up with one hand.

BJB made quite a few very good points. Parts of his post reminded me of an infuriating letter to the editor in our local newspaper. The writer was "appalled" at an ad in last week's paper challening Sen. Stumpf to support the vote for a constitutional amendment defining marriage between one man, one woman. The letter writer, one of a fast-shrinking DFL population in this increasingly conservative area (YES!) reminded everyone of how marriage as defined is already law in Minnesota. SO, she wondered why those who took out the ad don't have any better place to spend their money...children are starving all over the world every day. "What would Jesus do?" she asked plaintively. If He were anything like her, which she is sure He is, he would want you to put your money where it would help the suffering..like she does. She is a contributor to Heifer International...making her so much better than the money-wasting Evangelicals or whoever it is who wants this vote to go forward. I'd like to stack up the money, time, goods, love, etc. that Evangelical Christians spread throughout this world against the left-leaning "Christians" who trot out the tired-ass spiel that the poor need health care, education, blah, blah, blah and no one cares....but them. Conservative Christians care plenty but they also DO plenty. And talk about tooting your own horn-she is just so darn tickled with herself. YUCK.

Colleen comments: SO, she wondered why those who took out the ad don't have any better place to spend their money...children are starving all over the world every day. "What would Jesus do?" she asked plaintively."

I would imagine this woman is perfectly happy with the money Education Minnesota is pouring into it's "Mediocrity, Mediocrity, Medioctiry" ad campaign. After all, it's for the children.

BJB,

You make some excellent points. Have you considered putting them together in the form of a letter to the three pastors sent to the editor of the papers that covered their letter?

Kermit said,

And Doug, he is 300 pounds. Six foot three. Could pick your sorry ass up with one hand.

He might be able to but my name isn't Krispy Kreme McPork Rind so we all know he wouldn't bother.

As for my "trailer home", we just refinanced our cabin to lock in rates and had to get our 1st home re-appraised. It's valued at $490,000.00 up from $365,000.00 when we built it 5 years ago.

Gee, just think what I'll have if I make Manager.

I liked it better when you used the fast food restaurant employment insults. I can see why you stopped though knowing how sensitive you are about "projection" and having a 300 pound child living at home.

In a couple more years, can we look forward to seeing your house on the news when they have to remove an exterior wall to load up junior in a whale sling to get him to his gastric bypass procedure?

I'm guessing the apple doesn't fall far from the tree in your house does it...

I really enjoyed reading your blog today, best of luck. RyanX