Sounds like Air America is also in big trouble. Apparently, socialism does not appeal to capitalist advertisers.

LOL

Fathead Ed can't even keep his OWN home-market station. Sweet...

Did that story say "stalwards"?!?!?! Is that even a word? I mean I've heard of stalwarts... but I might have just missed out on stalwards (in which case I'm waving my ignorance like a freakin' flag).

Rest easy Badda, you are correct. It is stalwarts.

Just goes to show that you can only trust some radio folks for pronouncers... present company expected, Mitch.
;)

**Excepted

(You can tell I was in radio, can't you.)

Here's Bill Press's (typically wrong) prediction on Ed Schultz:

From:
TRANSCRIPT: CNN CROSSFIRE
Rather Biased?, Aired March 9, 2005
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/09/cf.01.html

(WITH: JAMES CARVILLE, BAY BUCHANAN, BILL PRESS, AND MICHAEL GRAHAM)

EXCERPT:

BUCHANAN: Bill, let me ask you a quick question. Why is it that liberals cannot make it on talk radio? That just seems to be a lock by conservatives, generally speaking. Now, local ones, there are some places...

CARVILLE: That's because liberals, because our people are out working during the day. They haven't got time to listen to the damn radio all day. Why do you think?

(APPLAUSE)

PRESS: Can I answer that question?

BUCHANAN: Yes.

PRESS: OK, I will tell you why. Because most radio producers in this country don't have the backbone of a member of Congress. And you know, that's pretty bad.

(LAUGHTER)

PRESS: They are afraid to hire liberals. Ed Schultz on Democracy Radio is a great talk show host. You watch him. He's going to be the next Rush Limbaugh. Al Franken is kicking ass on talk radio. Air America is doing great. And you know what else? Bill Press is going to launch a new show in about two weeks nationwide, and I'm going to beat Rush Limbaugh.

GRAHAM: Well, Bill Press...

CARVILLE: Whoa.

(APPLAUSE)

BUCHANAN: You heard it here first.

CARVILLE: I like that.

GRAHAM: Air America's numbers are nothing. ... But the reason why people turn to -- the reason people turn to conservative talk radio is because the mainstream media is dominated by liberals. Dan Rather is just as open in his biases as Rush Limbaugh is. It's, Dan Rather doesn't admit it. That's the only difference -- well, no, that's not the only difference.

Well, the "big" question (I'm assuming Mitch was being sarcastic) really isn't that big, it is Fargo after all. However, with 200 some stations carrying Big Eddy, I guess he's not off the air just yet. (hadn't heard him called Fast Eddy, but hey, Mitch is from ND, he may know something the rest of us don't).

As for the demise of Air America, it's certainly possible, both Carville's comments, and Graham's were silly. First, corporate america owns the media nowadays, and conservatives work just as hard as anyone.. but whatever... it IS interesting to note that KTNF is outpolling 1280 AM in the most recent Arbitron (or at least it seems that way as 1280 doesn't even register on the "blip-o-meter"). Further, since it's doing pretty similarly to the "Christian" station 1330, it begs the question whether moving to that format was a good move for 1330.

Air America needs a big hitter, I'm not sure it's Schultz, he has the pipes and the humor, but seems a little lite in the bite. Limbaugh and Rather being equivilants...sure, I can remember the last time Rather claimed cows cause more air polution than humans, claimed there were more trees in North America today than when Columbus landed, and especially when Danny boy said that Fascists were Communists. I also remember the night El'Rushbo apologized for misreporting something and especially the night Rather callled all conservatives traitors, Nazi's and cowards.. Yeah, they're nearly the same. I'm not sure when the Head Honcho in Charge of the Excellence in Broadcasting Network ever admitted to regarding biased, unfair reporting, but I'm sure he once apologized for not checking important facts, I just must not have been listening.

Maybe part of the reason for the success of right-wing talk radio has something to do with 20 years of funding of net losers in markets, experience building that base and format, but hey, expect equivilancy from an under-funded, immature format..and I'll just look at my Arbitron.

PB

Dear PB:

Please correct yourself. The R&R numbers clearly show that the Patriot out-guns Janet Robert and her band of loonies by about 25%:

http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRRatings/DetailsPage.aspx?MID=167&RY=2005&RQ=4&MP=0&OTHER=2&MN=Minneapolis-St.%20Paul&MS=MN&MR=16&12P=2632400&UP=1/18/2006%2012:00:00%20AM&SU=CM&BPER=5.6&HPER=&OPER=&NSD=3/2/2006%2012:00:00%20AM&CE=0

See those numbers? KTNF has 25% LESS listeners than the Patriot. Heck, she barely beats the Mexican station!

According to www.wendywilde.com, Wendy Wilde is leaving Air America MN as well...

Here's a comment from the land of "it is Fargo after all"

The people in Fargo have had enough of listening to a childish petulant dink who mistakenly thinks that emotive outbursts assaulting peoples character passes for intelligence. Three university systems in our town have produced enough intelligent people to say enough is anough.

And here is a shocker to many of you. We actually call our local radio station to say. GET RID OF THIS CAUSTIC JERK! AND BY THE WAY, I WILL NOT LISTEN TO YOU UNTIL YOU DO!

To bad Arbitron doesn't poll this question.

Fargo is still the land where even the liberals are still decent to others. Ed Schultz violated that.

Least we forget, this is still the same Ed Schultz that came after an NDSU fan who called him a jerk during the game back in the early '80's

Hot heads don't last long, people get tired of fools.

I think anyone who knows ANYTHING about radio knows this: Its about the ratings. Ratings equal MONEY. Its as simple as that. No ratings, no money, no station.

Station managers to NOT gas a host if they are a ratings cash-cow. Mitch will confirm this. In some cases, the talent wants more money and management won't give in (see: Jason Lewis).

Replacing a host means...they sucked with their listeners. If Fathead Ed's HOMETOWN station was making PILES of money on the loud-mouth jerk, they'd suck it up and cash their bonus checks.

Fathead Ed is nothing more than a former Moorhead State quarterback who was able to ride his bombastic spew personality for a few years. And the schtick worn thin.

"Fargo is still the land where even the liberals are still decent to others. Ed Schultz violated that."

Agreed, Schultz was billed as being the “progressive alternative to Rush Limbaugh” but in reality he was their answer to Michael Savage.

Dave,

My apologies, in looking at the station's page, I thought they indicated thier call letters as KKMS (thus my comment about the Patriot being invisible on the Arbitron chart). So I freely admit, I was wrong, though not through intent, simply oversight. I went to look at KTNF's growth in arbitron and was surprised not to see 1280.

So here's a question for you Dave, given how much longer WWTC has been doing right-wing hate radio, vs. KTNF doing left-wing hate radio, do you find it alarming that KTNF posts numbers are nearing equivilancy to WWTC?

Point is, as I said, it's a fledgeling. If I were WWTC's sponsors, and left-hate radio could catch up, or very nearly, within a year of startup, I'd be upset. Let's see where it is in 5 years (if it lasts that long). I wonder if WWTC is paying it's own freight in terms of costs - have no idea - but it certainly has been commonplace for righty talk radio to get "sponsorship" from supportive owners.

PB

Peeb,

"Well, the "big" question (I'm assuming Mitch was being sarcastic) really isn't that big, it is Fargo after all."

Fargo is a good mid-sized market, which has a lot more influence than its size would indicate; the presence of the likes of Fast Eddie, and WDAY's Scott Hennen (who is excellent, and could work in a major market if he wanted to) is only part of it. There's some inside radio here, but it's a much cloutier market than you probably suspect.

"However, with 200 some stations carrying Big Eddy, I guess he's not off the air just yet."

Read again carefully, Peeb; I didn't say he was "off the air", just off the air in Fargo. Having a successful network player lose his flagship station isn't unheard of - but it's unusual.

"(hadn't heard him called Fast Eddy, but hey, Mitch is from ND, he may know something the rest of us don't)."

I do. Lots of NoDak media people called him "Fast Eddie" in the eighties (when he started in TV in Fargo, and I was working in radio in parts west).

There was also an involvement with some family friends, which I really can't go into here.

"As for the demise of Air America, it's certainly possible...it IS interesting to note that KTNF is outpolling 1280 AM in the most recent Arbitron (or at least it seems that way as 1280 doesn't even register on the "blip-o-meter")."

What Arbitron are you looking at, Peeb? The last book I saw, WWTC is a good half a point ahead of KTNF - Patriot is flirting with a 2, KTNF is in the low ones.

Of course, since you're a veteran of WNDR ("We've Never Done Radio") - what we call a "Chickenjock" in the business - I wouldn't expect you to know that the "12+" number you read in the paper is pretty much meaningless for talk radio (it's the 35-54 numbers that count), or that with stations like Patriot and KTNF, the Arbitron itself is really only for bragging rights; both stations sell demographics. The Patriot's demographics are the kind of thing that makes advertisers salivate (average income in six figures, average listen time in the several-hours-per-day range); KTNF's demographics suffer in comparison, partly/largely because the people with money in their target audience already listen to MPR, and partly because, frankly, most of the programming appeals to a fever swamp that even most liberals just don't live in.

" Further, since it's doing pretty similarly to the "Christian" station 1330, it begs the question whether moving to that format was a good move for 1330."

Catholic Radio was a *great* move for 1330; it went from being an almost-unrated general-market player (when it was all-news) to being a confusing, off-putting hybrid (news plus a few hours of the embryonic AAo'M) to having a loyal, fairly wealthy niche market - which is how small AM stations survive these days.

"Air America needs a big hitter, I'm not sure it's Schultz, he has the pipes and the humor, but seems a little lite in the bite."

Air America HAS big hitters; Franken and Garofalo and Winstad all have massive name recognition among Air America's target audience. Leaving politics aside and speaking purely in radio terms, their problem is they all stink.

Schulz has radio chops, and may be the one major lib show that I can see succeeding. Also - and this is huge - it's the one lib network program that has a biz model that makes any sense; while Air America brokers time on major-market stations (pays through the nose!) and pays no-talent doofuses like Franken $2,000,000 a year (!), Schultz and JonesNet follow Limbaugh's model; give the show for free, live off the network spots (that's what pays Limbaugh's salary), keep costs down (working out of KFGO rather than, say, leased space in Manhattan). Schultz is many things, but he's not stupid.

" Limbaugh and Rather being equivilants...sure, I can remember the last time Rather claimed cows cause more air polution than humans, claimed there were more trees in North America today than when Columbus landed, and especially when Danny boy said that Fascists were Communists."

The big difference; Limbaugh is an entertainer, not a "journalist"; he's allowed hyperbole. And Rather's "fake but accurate" schtick, if you take journalism seriously, was one of the most atrocious rationalizations ever - just disastrous. I say that as someone who took Rather as a role model in my teens and twenties when i wanted a career in journalism.

"Maybe part of the reason for the success of right-wing talk radio has something to do with 20 years of funding of net losers in markets,"

That's an interesting point, in that it is entirely wrong; there was no "loss leader" period for conservative talk. Limbaugh was a cash cow right out of the gate; he was a rising tide that lifted all boats - and his ratings (and the fact that he was a freebie) made his show an instant profit center for just about every affiliate he ever had. That brought in capital that his smarter affiliates invested in local programming - some of which flopped, some of which (Jason Lewis, Joe Soucheray) went on to become cash cows themselves.

Example: when I worked at KSTP - during the "Fairness Doctrine" - the station was the poor cousin of the Hubbard empire. Limbaugh rocketed KSTP's numbers from the dismal twos into the solid upper fours - solidly profitable - by the early '90s, even with feeble local talent (Jesse Ventura, Turi Ryder, Pat Milan). By the turn of the century - when Limbaugh's lead catapulted Soucheray and then Jason Lewis into the double-digits - AM1500's revenues were *carrying* Channel 5, KS95, and Chick107, with plenty left over.

There was no "Loss Leader" phase in conservative talk. The product took off so fast it wasn't needed. Which is good, because radio doesn't forgive loss leaders, especially not in major markets (have you seen how many times 100.3, 104 and 93.7 have flipped formats?), unless they have a benefactor with deep (I'll be charitable) pockets.

"experience building that base and format, but hey, expect equivilancy from an under-funded, immature format..and I'll just look at my Arbitron."

The one that shows KTNF beating WWTC?

Excellent rebuttal Mitch!

Did you check out the story about why Wendy Wilde is leaving AM950? MOLD! The enlightened liberal management at AM950 is providing an unhealthy work environment for its employees.

And what makes it funnier? AM950 still has to play reruns of Wendys show to fill out the schedule.

PB:

Thank you for admitting you were wrong. Of course, you are wrong again.

Janet Robert and her band of loons has been around since the beginning of ErrAmerika radio, and we are approaching the 2 year mark. Not one year. As far as the Patriot, I don't have the exact figures, but I would venture to guess they have not been around for more than 3 years or so.

I also do not think, for a minute, that Janet's .9 share and the Patriot's 1.2 share is "equivalent". That's like saying $2/gallon gas costs the same as $1.50/gallon. Patriot consistantly has 25% more audience than Janet-the-loser.

And when you compare Janet's band of village idiots to the entire MSP market, well, let's just say I understand why they play so many PSAs. Because their advertisers know they are pissing their valuable advertising dollars down the drain with Janet.

"Janet Robert and her band of loons has been around since the beginning of ErrAmerika radio, and we are approaching the 2 year mark. Not one year."

Air America went live on 3/31/04. Janet Robert was running a couple of shows - Colleen Cruse and then Wild Wendy - in the afternoons on 1330 for a solid year before that.

" As far as the Patriot, I don't have the exact figures, but I would venture to guess they have not been around for more than 3 years or so."

I think 1280 went "Patriot" in 2000. It kept a fairly low profile until about three years ago.

"I also do not think, for a minute, that Janet's .9 share and the Patriot's 1.2 share is "equivalent". That's like saying $2/gallon gas costs the same as $1.50/gallon. Patriot consistantly has 25% more audience than Janet-the-loser."

The audience is not remotely equivalent on several fronts; the Patriot bottomed around 1.2 (in 12+, which as I noted early is a nearly meaningless measurement for talk radio) in last year's summer book, which was a bad book for conservative talk (the summer book after a presidential election is *always* bad for conservative talk; KSTP had a horrible summer '05 book, too. Patriot is up to about a 1.5, IIRC, while AAo'M is flirting with the low ones.

And there's no comparing the demographics; the median income of Patriot listeners is easily double that of 950's audience; 1280's average listenership may be the highest of any station in the Metro - like, several hours a day where most stations try hard to get over 30 minutes. The station and brand loyalty is astounding.

You can tell by comparing the sponsorships; Patriot has quite a few of the types of accounts that are the meat 'n potatoes of radio advertising - notice the car dealers and places like R.F. Moeller? Listen to AM950's spot load; the last I checked, half of it is stuff they're playing (for free) for the right to pre-empt network programming.

Peeb,

"I wonder if WWTC is paying it's own freight in terms of costs - have no idea"

It's a highly profitable operation. Salem Radio doesn't brook unprofitability.

"but it certainly has been commonplace for righty talk radio to get "sponsorship" from supportive owners."

What exactly are you talking about here?

Are you talking about selling advertising to businessmen who agree with the station's hosts? Of course.

Or are you referring to wealthy benefactors feeding the kitty to support stations and the format during a "loss leader" period? If that's what you mean, I'll need to see some credible documentary evidence.

If that's what you meant, you were half right; the local trade and craft unions and the Mdewankanton Sioux tribe certainly pour money into their chosen talk station.

Which would be AM950.I've heard from union carpenters who are REALLY sick of hearing from the station's shills begging the union for more help. That being said, at least it's more or less volunary - unlike Air America's pilfering from the Dorothy Wise Center...

Doh - GLORIA Wise Center.

As someone who actually lives in the Fargo-Moorhead area and has for almost 40 years, I would like you to consider some observations. KFGO has a local show, News and View, that is a general topic local call in show. After that, it is Rush Limpbaugh for three hours. After that, it was Ed Schultz for three hours, and then back to local news. Then, after that, it is sporting broadcasts. Now Jack and Sandy are taking over Ed's time slot, and they are, basically, a general topic call in show over some pretty mundane items and other limited use things. Theirs is a rather boring show for anyone under 65. If Jeff Hoberg, the manager at KFGO, is really interested in his supposed rationalization on local topics and personalities on the radio, he would have given Rush the ax and left Ed on. He didn't. Some say it was because of lower ratings on KFGO than on WDAY, the main competition in talk. However, none of that has been proven, and until there are actual, factual ratings to point to definitively, there will remain much speculation on what is really going on. One thing that is true is that Clear Channel is operated by a right wing business front and has zero sympathy for those not following in goose step formationn with their political views.

I can tell you WDAY is owned by Forum Communications, which also owns the local daily newspaper, The Forum, which a long time ago was called The Fargo Republican, as well as WDAY television and a whole host of newpapers in the region. So, can we count on The Forum to set this straight with a news article? No, and they have not done so as of this writing. They have a vested interest in making their own product, WDAY, look as good as possible, and so I can only guess that the WDAY radio ratings are not as good as they would like in comparison to KFGO.

WDAY radio, owned by Forum Communications, is run by Scott Hennen, and he has his own show called Hot Talk, which has its main competition in KFGO's News and Views. Hennen's show really should be called "GOP Talk" as he over the top in his conservative views and is just as rude toward those he disagrees with as Ed Schultz may be. Whenever you see his lame ads running on WDAY television, it is always a picture of his large head next to some neocon, and only neocons, in Washington. He actually does have a big head, but it is accentuated by his holding a small, autofocus camera at arm's length to get his shot.

Now, having said what I have, I want you to think about what remaining left leaning voice, especially nationally syndicated, we have in the Red River Valley here. WDAY runs only right wing nut job talk shows, period. KFGO had some balance at least with Rush Limpbaugh and then Ed Schultz, but no longer. And don't even think of comparing Jack and Sandy's to being some kind of left wing replacement, as that is not the least bit close to the reality of what their fluff show is all about.

There is a determined effort to silence left or even center views in this market that includes two state universities, one college, one community college, and several younger workers. Don't tell me it is all about making money, because there is something much more going on here than meets the eye, and what is going on is being held away from the light of truth.

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