Via Limbaugh - resistance to the looters and corrupt NOPD cops, in the Big Easy:
All is not lost.
Posted by Mitch at
September 1, 2005 02:12 PM
| TrackBack
Comments
Remember when Grand Forks flooded? Was there a single case of looting? Just wondering... We had a very bad flood up here a couple years ago as well...Roseau County...no looting...hmmm...
I'm not really sure of what you're approving of. The guy is on his roof and he wants to get noticed by the National Guard or Coast Guard. I don't know the first thing about this poor guy, but he is on his roof in a city 80% under water. All his shit IS lost. This isn't Al Qaeda that washed up in LA, it was the hand of God. What do we have to lose in the face of the Lord. Patriotism? Those rioters, looters and corrupt NOPD cops aren't thinking of America right now. They aren't thinking of flag waving and patriotism.
This post is just pornographic patriotism. This isn't resistance. The guy is helpless on his f-ing roof.
Come on. I like your site, but this is overboard. That guy has nothing to prove but attention for help. I'd like to think this isn't the case for Shot in the Dark.
cp
Posted by: cleversponge at September 1, 2005 09:39 PM
Sponge,
Untrue. He's one of a number of homeowners in a less-damaged neighborhood who've organized to deter looters.
And the sight - a bunch of people guarding their stuff, armed to the teeth and flying the flag, has to piss off the lefty media and their supporters even worse than it does the looters. At least the looters understand the motivation.
Great, fine...an armed guy with a flag shooting people who come close. America f#$k yeah!!
If this is your brave definition of patriotism and things going right in America...wow.
Screw pissing off the lefty media; this should piss off everyone. You'd be a very patriotic Hutu, I suspect, if things didn't work out so well for you by being born in North Dakota rather than...well, you know, someplace where they need guns to defend their houses on a daily basis.
If this is what we are defining as our proud American moment right now....then yes, all is lost.
And James, yes...I am pissed. I'm pissed that we have a 3rd world situation in the greatest nation on the planet. I'm pissed because we have politicians on TV back slapping eachother for the "good efforts" while nothing is getting done. I'm pissed because we're all just doing the same thing we did after 9/11, but on a much quicker scale; taking political positions on everything, knowing full well that some responsibility will have to be determined in the aftermath. Hey, let's work together...while we take sides to skate/place the blame!!
Meanwhile, an image of a guy and his gun on an f-ing roof somehow becomes a meaningless symbol of how "all is not lost". As anyone who reads this blog on a frequent basis knows, this post probably had more to do with the 2nd Amendment than with any thought-out consideration that a guy with a gun on the roof of a major American city defending his property from a bunch of animals, criminals, hungry folk, poor people, crazies....felllow citizens, just may not be the best example of the hope and possibility of the American people at the current moment.
If this were Patrick Swayze in Red Dawn...hells yeah!! Fire away!! If the Chinese are invading California...I'd be up there with him. If it's folks from across town...not so much.
It shouldn't be like that and you shouldn't be proud of it. Just because someone has a gun and a flag doesn't make it an all-American situation.
cp
Posted by: cleversponge at September 2, 2005 07:06 AM
"If this is your brave definition of patriotism and things going right in America...wow."
Absurd strawman. Things are NOT going right in New Orleans.
"Screw pissing off the lefty media; this should piss off everyone. You'd be a very patriotic Hutu, I suspect, if things didn't work out so well for you by being born in North Dakota rather than...well, you know, someplace where they need guns to defend their houses on a daily basis."
Wow - simultaneous racism, classism and bales and bales of strawmen. I bow to your rhetorical prowess.
The Hutu reference is way over the top; show me any reference to racism, much less eliminationist intent.
Sponge, you're a symptom of one of the great lefty conceits; "You are nothing without your society". If your society is falling apart, one should meekly lay down and die with it, goes the unstated message of this conceit.
Bull.
"If this is what we are defining as our proud American moment right now....then yes, all is lost."
Americans beating back the forces of evil and stupidity on their own hook, without waiting for Mother Government to do it for them...yeah. All is lost.
And those damned Minutemen in 1775 - they should have waited for the ACLU to come along and handle things in court, too!
"And James, yes...I am pissed. I'm pissed that we have a 3rd world situation in the greatest nation on the planet."
Sponge, you have it completely backwards. The "third world" you so condescending have sneered at twice now is *everywhere* - in Rwanda, Russia, Iraq, Louisiana, North Dakota, and Fifth Freaking Avenue, for that matter. It's kept in check only by the will of the people to fight for something better. In most of the world for most of history, it's kept in check by monarchs and dictators and force; in America and an increasing portion of the world, it's through the will of society - a free association of equals - to band together and create a government based on the rule of law. And in the rest of the world, where those laws and rules can't be enforced through traditional means, it's done through the will of the *people* to stand up and say "this is where the wilderness ends".
The left hates it when people do that.
" I'm pissed because we have politicians on TV back slapping eachother for the "good efforts" while nothing is getting done."
Hyperbole, disregarded.
" I'm pissed because we're all just doing the same thing we did after 9/11, but on a much quicker scale; taking political positions on everything, knowing full well that some responsibility will have to be determined in the aftermath. Hey, let's work together...while we take sides to skate/place the blame!!"
Well, go and tell Kos to knock it off.
"Meanwhile, an image of a guy and his gun on an f-ing roof somehow becomes a meaningless symbol of how "all is not lost". As anyone who reads this blog on a frequent basis knows, this post probably had more to do with the 2nd Amendment than with any thought-out consideration that a guy with a gun on the roof of a major American city defending his property from a bunch of animals, criminals, hungry folk, poor people, crazies....felllow citizens, just may not be the best example of the hope and possibility of the American people at the current moment."
Gosh, where to start picking that miasma of straw apart. I'm serious, Sponge - do you work as a nurse? You seem to have experience putting things in peoples' mouths.
It's not a meaningless symbol. I have imparted meaning upon it. You may not like the meaning (you're wrong), but it HAS meaning.
The Second Amendment and the fact that these guys in Louisiana can defend themselves against chaos are intimately interrelated, and can not be separated. You act like that's a bad thing.
And if you've read this blog as much as you say you have, you should remember that I also lionize the Korean grocers of Los Angeles, who banded together, armed to the teeth, and faced down the mobs, and - this must piss you off, too, Sponge - saved the businesses that they had spent their lives building from being looted and burned.
It's a sign that Americans don't NEED the government to maintain the rule of law and order; that they know that the government is of, by and for...whom, Sponge? No, not the lawyers, the ACLUeless or the parties, the *people*.
And yes, even though it's not needed in ANY rational way, it's a massive vindication (as opposed to the small vindications that happen daily in America) of the Second Amendment.
"If this were Patrick Swayze in Red Dawn...hells yeah!! Fire away!! If the Chinese are invading California...I'd be up there with him. If it's folks from across town...not so much."
Why? If it's folks across town that will kill you for your microwave, or who'll kill you and your family slowly by taking their food and water in a situation where both are hard to come by, it doesn't matter if they wear a PLA uniform and carry an AK or a Saints jersey and a looted revolver. The threat is the same, the death they offer is the same, the mortal threat to your life, liberty and property is not only the same but, in the latter case and the current situation, worse. China's never going to invade California - but chaos has invaded this country, here and now, and is killing good Americans as we sit and type.
"It shouldn't be like that and you shouldn't be proud of it."
With all due respect, bullshit. It isn't like that (as I've demonstrated), and I'm not only proud of it, but I wish I had the wherewithal and liberty to go and join them myself.
"Just because someone has a gun and a flag doesn't make it an all-American situation. "
Never has the line of partison-hack behavior been cross so badly than it has today.
Liberals/Demcorats are wandering all over, attacking and blaming Republicans....most notably the President. Of course, why place any blame on those who are SPECIFICALLY elected to serve New Orleans, like their City Council? Or their state's governor? I wonder why?
I just listened to a clip of one of the most racist elected officials this nation has ever laid claim to: Elisha Cummings. What a spew of racist trash. And its a Bush's fault.
Of course, there's not a single problem or disaster that can't be pinned on Bush. Or...Reagan. But that's ok. The public doesn't buy it. Instead of listening to this daily attack of liberal blamers....they open their wallets and help their fellow Americans. They don't care about the race-baiting scum....the pitch in and help.
Democrats: Show some class. This is not a time for blame, because that blame can equally be placed on Democrats. Be an American....just once.
Jeepers! One picture of a white male with an American flag and a rifle on a rooftop supposedly facing disaster and the Left goes ballistic.
Rush wins again. The picture, one of thousands, is just part of a promotional campaign to sell Rush Limbaugh "Club Gitmo" apparel. People buy the orange "prison" garb, which is a take-off on the luxurious conditions in Guantanamo most jihadis enjoy (glazed chicken, rice pilaf, soccer...) then photograph themselves at various locations, and then send the pics in to ol' Rush to post on his website --just to drive the Left crazy. And it works perfectly.
It's a posed picture. If the guy were in any real danger, he wouldn't be taking the time to climb on the roof with a flagpole in his lily-white Nikes with what looks like a pop-gun. This is satire at its finest. It's humor. And as we can see as above, the Left is without humor. Because in this monstrous disaster, the welfare policies and failed leadership of Democratic administrations at the state and local level in Louisiana completely failed and is everywhere on display. The elite liberal Democrats in charge did not stand and fight for the "little guy." They ran away. We see the result.
I harken back to the late Carl Rowan, who had advocated strict handgun control (to a point where he believed that anyone who had a gun that wasn't a law enforcement officer or military member should be sent to prison).Later in life, he "found himself in the center of a gun controversy during the 1980s when he was arrested and charged with using an unregistered weapon to wound a teen-ager who intruded into his backyard.
Rowan argued that he had the right to use whatever means necessary to protect himself and his family."
Good enough for Carl Rowan, good enough for lifetime NRA member Michael Moore, good enough for the rest of us.
Why are you wasting so much time on the issue of guns, Mitch? How about putting the crisis these people are going through ahead of hunks of metal? To paraphrase the NRA: Guns don't kill people. Deflective, self-righteous, circuitously-argued, pseudo-nationalistic apathy in the face of human suffering does.
Yowling from the Fencepost -- Oh dear god.
Moses
Posted by: John Moses at September 2, 2005 09:05 PM
Rats... Looks as if my link didn't take. Here it is again...
You didn't have looters in Grand Forks because it didn't take 3 days to get any semblence of order, folks weren't dying of heat, and you didn't cram 25000 people into a dark building with no water, no food, poor sanitation, etc..
This post pretends to suggest somehow we are better than those who are desparate. Such elitism, with hints of racism, is both as wrong as it is vile. Put yourself in a condition where your child is dying of heat exhaustion and TELL me you won't break open the local abandoned grocery market to get at some food and water, PUUULEEEAAZZEEE... the condescension evidenced here is disgusting.
With regard to the Thugs and Scum that hung out at the Convention Center, and in the streets in some cases, yes, the are scum, oh, but like rural MN doesn't have Meth Labs and Crank dealers, right?? The fact is this situation devolved becasue FEMA was staffed by a bunch of incompetent political hacks who failed to execute even thier own inadequate plan, because the state, local, and federal governments did piss all to plan for the aftermath (god that sounds familiar) of a huge catastrophe, and didn't have support (in terms of troops and logistics and leadership) back in place in time. I don't seriously think the issues in Grand Forks, even if they had to go without aid for 3 days would have ever devolved to the level you have in NO, but if that had happened in any other poor, uneducated, disenfranchised community, the results would have been the same.
The problems in NO, with their police department have been largely straightened out, making broad accusations of corruption are totally unfair to men and women who put their lives on the line in that city for three days without help or thanks. The issues of 1994 were solved when they fired all of the top leadership in that department (BTW under Clinton), and their murder rate has dropped by almost 50%. Again, the elitism is contemptable.
Perhaps you all need to actually read up or listen to reporters who have been there. Most of the "looting" is just desperate folks looking to stay alive. Some of the rest is a reaction to such a pathetically executed response, i.e. lawless was allowed to reign, and so it did, and yes, some is scum. Gosh, in a city SOOOO poor that 150k can't afford a way out, you're surprised that they'd loot? Maybe you need to consider whether trickle-down really works, whether you loved your neighbor enough that they don't live in filth and hopelessness, maybe you might want to look in a mirror once in a while, before you start thumping your chest at the vicarious "patriotism" you'd like to think you'd show. Patriotism that doesn't mean jack-all, as it's not like folks are staring down gangs of looters with their trusty '98 Winchester. The looting is done at abandoned stores and houses, and the rapes were happening at the convention center. So it's a hollow bravado, but further, being proud of it is just yet another sad, sad testimony to the hate and propensity for violence that peoople seem ready to show for their fellow countrymen, just because they are: from another area, from another economic class, or worst, another race.
Rather than getting all worked up about a guy and a flag (and the nubmer of posts here vs. the ones about actually helping shows YES you are all worked up), maybe you should think about the words Christ spoke in the parable of the good Samaritan, or in Matthew 25, That whichsoever you do to the least of me, you do also to me, when you visited the man in prison, you visited me, you fed me when I was hungry, you gave me water when I thirsted, you comforted me when I was in fear. If you think this is a nation founded on Christianity, perhaps, rather than putting up a picture about a guy with a flag and a gun, you should put out your hand.
Crocodile tears. You've been reading the latest talking points memo apparently....
Uh....PB....ummm.....CNN was airing video of the...uh New Orleans uh...police...er...looting the Wal-Mart they were deployed to protect. (If the link is still active, you can view it here):
And, um, well, gees... uh, tourism is a big deal in the Big Easy, which is how Blanco and Nagin got elected. They're Public Relations pros from way back -- and while they did, in fact, make a few arrests down the ranks, they were waayyy down the ranks, and more or less for the kind of stuff you see in the video. They didn't touch the Big Dawgs because, well, that's how a Red State like Louisiana gets saddled with Democratic administrations root and branch and besides, what's Mardi Gras without any coke? It's the jazz capital of the world, PB. It ain't got that swing if it ain't got that bling.
The NOPD works for the machine; it is essential to that machine. It's how it gets elected year after year. Oh, it protects folks alright, just not the ones you think. If you weren't so sucked in by the PR blitz of print and broadcast reporters proclaiming how great the casinos are, what a family pavilion Bourbon St. is, how New Orleans is Disneyland and so on -- you'd know that. It's how they get the coke in.
As for loving one's neighbor yada, yada, yada -- just who do you think has been in charge down there all this time? It wasn't FEMA. It certainly wasn't the GOP, and the Church throws a pretty mean bar-b-que every so often just to keep folks chillin'. That's how it works.
If you ever actually lived there (I have), nothing you're seeing now would in the least surprise you. Go check out Frogtown, or for that matter, north Minneapolis. That's how we do it in Minnesota. It's not about law and order; it's not even about racism. It's all about protecting the vote for the Man in the Big House.
"You didn't have looters in Grand Forks because it didn't take 3 days to get any semblence of order, folks weren't dying of heat, and you didn't cram 25000 people into a dark building with no water, no food, poor sanitation, etc.."
How about trying South Florida after Andrew? Other than putting folks in a Dome it was similar. It took 3 days to get the affluent area of Boca Raton, and much more than that to get to Homestead. Yet there was not much lawlessness and looting (other than Liberty City) after a few shots rang out on the looters. Been there. Lived through it. And besides, the folks in the Dome didn't seem to be the problem until the lawless folks came there.
"This post pretends to suggest somehow we are better than those who are desparate. Such elitism, with hints of racism, is both as wrong as it is vile. Put yourself in a condition where your child is dying of heat exhaustion and TELL me you won't break open the local abandoned grocery market to get at some food and water, PUUULEEEAAZZEEE... the condescension evidenced here is disgusting."
Quickly followed by:
"Gosh, in a city SOOOO poor that 150k can't afford a way out, you're surprised that they'd loot? "
Who's showing condescension now? Hmmm? Why does being poor give you an excuse to loot and riot when things go bad? Are poor folks somehow less human and less fully citizens than the rest of society? I thought we were all created with equal rights, and therefore equal responsibilities, which includes not going off and looting and raping your fellow citizens when you get the chance. Bzzt. BEING POOR IS NOT AN EXCUSE!
Sorry. I can see taking what you need from unoccupied stores that are unable to sell (or give, as they did in FL after Andrew) you what you need, but while that might technically be looting much of the stuff we saw was nothing less than larceny. Who needs a TV in that situation?
"The fact is this situation devolved becasue FEMA was staffed by a bunch of incompetent political hacks who failed to execute even thier own inadequate plan, because the state, local, and federal governments did piss all to plan for the aftermath (god that sounds familiar)..."
Who is ultimately responsible for the city and its plan? Is it the Federal government, whose charter is the interaction of the states and foreign lands? Or is the people of the city and state? I don't recall seeing the Feds try to block NO from putting in better levees.
The Feds need to step in when things absolutely fail, and they did step in. But they're hamstrung when local order falls apart by the Posse Commitatus Act. The Feds can't go in without Congressional approval for law enforcement work and Congress is certainly out of session, so no Federal armed forces members can go in there to maintain order. It fell to LA and NO to restore order via their National Guard and police forces. Until order had been restored commiting the troops didn't make sense. There are rules about these things, but before you go changing them think about the worst case situation of an even more extreme Fed government opposed to your values and think carefully if you want to remove those restrictions.
Sorry, but the worst of this was brought on by the incompetence local governments. That such poor planning was done in NO and LA isn't surprising, but having the Feds take over the responsibility for local planning seems, well, extremely suboptimal. After all, aren't local governments and agencies supposed to know local conditions?
That's just the thing; they did know local conditions, particularly that the Superdome could only be sustained as a shelter for a matter of hours, not days. Same with the hospitals and jails.
Essentially what they did was announce a mandatory evacuation without providing any means by which the people living in public housing could escape. Then they just opened the jails. The NOPD understandably was completely overwhelmed.
Roughly 20% of NO's population is entirely dependent on government subsidy. Not only did their Democratic patrons fail to provide for their evacuation, but they also unleashed upon them the criminal element which had no place else to go.
That they would then cry racism and blame Bush and FEMA and rely on the MSM to cover their tracks is about as morally repugnant as it gets.
Remember when Grand Forks flooded? Was there a single case of looting? Just wondering... We had a very bad flood up here a couple years ago as well...Roseau County...no looting...hmmm...
Posted by: Colleen at September 1, 2005 08:09 PMWe're there trying to help and some of them are shooting at us. One WIA so far WTF?
Posted by: fingers at September 1, 2005 08:36 PMI'm not really sure of what you're approving of. The guy is on his roof and he wants to get noticed by the National Guard or Coast Guard. I don't know the first thing about this poor guy, but he is on his roof in a city 80% under water. All his shit IS lost. This isn't Al Qaeda that washed up in LA, it was the hand of God. What do we have to lose in the face of the Lord. Patriotism? Those rioters, looters and corrupt NOPD cops aren't thinking of America right now. They aren't thinking of flag waving and patriotism.
This post is just pornographic patriotism. This isn't resistance. The guy is helpless on his f-ing roof.
Come on. I like your site, but this is overboard. That guy has nothing to prove but attention for help. I'd like to think this isn't the case for Shot in the Dark.
cp
Posted by: cleversponge at September 1, 2005 09:39 PMSponge,
Untrue. He's one of a number of homeowners in a less-damaged neighborhood who've organized to deter looters.
And the sight - a bunch of people guarding their stuff, armed to the teeth and flying the flag, has to piss off the lefty media and their supporters even worse than it does the looters. At least the looters understand the motivation.
Posted by: mitch at September 1, 2005 11:32 PMwell it certainly pissed Sponge off!
Posted by: JamesPh. at September 1, 2005 11:51 PMGreat, fine...an armed guy with a flag shooting people who come close. America f#$k yeah!!
If this is your brave definition of patriotism and things going right in America...wow.
Screw pissing off the lefty media; this should piss off everyone. You'd be a very patriotic Hutu, I suspect, if things didn't work out so well for you by being born in North Dakota rather than...well, you know, someplace where they need guns to defend their houses on a daily basis.
If this is what we are defining as our proud American moment right now....then yes, all is lost.
And James, yes...I am pissed. I'm pissed that we have a 3rd world situation in the greatest nation on the planet. I'm pissed because we have politicians on TV back slapping eachother for the "good efforts" while nothing is getting done. I'm pissed because we're all just doing the same thing we did after 9/11, but on a much quicker scale; taking political positions on everything, knowing full well that some responsibility will have to be determined in the aftermath. Hey, let's work together...while we take sides to skate/place the blame!!
Meanwhile, an image of a guy and his gun on an f-ing roof somehow becomes a meaningless symbol of how "all is not lost". As anyone who reads this blog on a frequent basis knows, this post probably had more to do with the 2nd Amendment than with any thought-out consideration that a guy with a gun on the roof of a major American city defending his property from a bunch of animals, criminals, hungry folk, poor people, crazies....felllow citizens, just may not be the best example of the hope and possibility of the American people at the current moment.
If this were Patrick Swayze in Red Dawn...hells yeah!! Fire away!! If the Chinese are invading California...I'd be up there with him. If it's folks from across town...not so much.
It shouldn't be like that and you shouldn't be proud of it. Just because someone has a gun and a flag doesn't make it an all-American situation.
cp
Posted by: cleversponge at September 2, 2005 07:06 AM"If this is your brave definition of patriotism and things going right in America...wow."
Absurd strawman. Things are NOT going right in New Orleans.
"Screw pissing off the lefty media; this should piss off everyone. You'd be a very patriotic Hutu, I suspect, if things didn't work out so well for you by being born in North Dakota rather than...well, you know, someplace where they need guns to defend their houses on a daily basis."
Wow - simultaneous racism, classism and bales and bales of strawmen. I bow to your rhetorical prowess.
The Hutu reference is way over the top; show me any reference to racism, much less eliminationist intent.
Sponge, you're a symptom of one of the great lefty conceits; "You are nothing without your society". If your society is falling apart, one should meekly lay down and die with it, goes the unstated message of this conceit.
Bull.
"If this is what we are defining as our proud American moment right now....then yes, all is lost."
Americans beating back the forces of evil and stupidity on their own hook, without waiting for Mother Government to do it for them...yeah. All is lost.
And those damned Minutemen in 1775 - they should have waited for the ACLU to come along and handle things in court, too!
"And James, yes...I am pissed. I'm pissed that we have a 3rd world situation in the greatest nation on the planet."
Sponge, you have it completely backwards. The "third world" you so condescending have sneered at twice now is *everywhere* - in Rwanda, Russia, Iraq, Louisiana, North Dakota, and Fifth Freaking Avenue, for that matter. It's kept in check only by the will of the people to fight for something better. In most of the world for most of history, it's kept in check by monarchs and dictators and force; in America and an increasing portion of the world, it's through the will of society - a free association of equals - to band together and create a government based on the rule of law. And in the rest of the world, where those laws and rules can't be enforced through traditional means, it's done through the will of the *people* to stand up and say "this is where the wilderness ends".
The left hates it when people do that.
" I'm pissed because we have politicians on TV back slapping eachother for the "good efforts" while nothing is getting done."
Hyperbole, disregarded.
" I'm pissed because we're all just doing the same thing we did after 9/11, but on a much quicker scale; taking political positions on everything, knowing full well that some responsibility will have to be determined in the aftermath. Hey, let's work together...while we take sides to skate/place the blame!!"
Well, go and tell Kos to knock it off.
"Meanwhile, an image of a guy and his gun on an f-ing roof somehow becomes a meaningless symbol of how "all is not lost". As anyone who reads this blog on a frequent basis knows, this post probably had more to do with the 2nd Amendment than with any thought-out consideration that a guy with a gun on the roof of a major American city defending his property from a bunch of animals, criminals, hungry folk, poor people, crazies....felllow citizens, just may not be the best example of the hope and possibility of the American people at the current moment."
Gosh, where to start picking that miasma of straw apart. I'm serious, Sponge - do you work as a nurse? You seem to have experience putting things in peoples' mouths.
It's not a meaningless symbol. I have imparted meaning upon it. You may not like the meaning (you're wrong), but it HAS meaning.
The Second Amendment and the fact that these guys in Louisiana can defend themselves against chaos are intimately interrelated, and can not be separated. You act like that's a bad thing.
And if you've read this blog as much as you say you have, you should remember that I also lionize the Korean grocers of Los Angeles, who banded together, armed to the teeth, and faced down the mobs, and - this must piss you off, too, Sponge - saved the businesses that they had spent their lives building from being looted and burned.
It's a sign that Americans don't NEED the government to maintain the rule of law and order; that they know that the government is of, by and for...whom, Sponge? No, not the lawyers, the ACLUeless or the parties, the *people*.
And yes, even though it's not needed in ANY rational way, it's a massive vindication (as opposed to the small vindications that happen daily in America) of the Second Amendment.
"If this were Patrick Swayze in Red Dawn...hells yeah!! Fire away!! If the Chinese are invading California...I'd be up there with him. If it's folks from across town...not so much."
Why? If it's folks across town that will kill you for your microwave, or who'll kill you and your family slowly by taking their food and water in a situation where both are hard to come by, it doesn't matter if they wear a PLA uniform and carry an AK or a Saints jersey and a looted revolver. The threat is the same, the death they offer is the same, the mortal threat to your life, liberty and property is not only the same but, in the latter case and the current situation, worse. China's never going to invade California - but chaos has invaded this country, here and now, and is killing good Americans as we sit and type.
"It shouldn't be like that and you shouldn't be proud of it."
With all due respect, bullshit. It isn't like that (as I've demonstrated), and I'm not only proud of it, but I wish I had the wherewithal and liberty to go and join them myself.
"Just because someone has a gun and a flag doesn't make it an all-American situation. "
No. But in this case, it makes it a good thing.
Posted by: mitch at September 2, 2005 09:58 AMNever has the line of partison-hack behavior been cross so badly than it has today.
Liberals/Demcorats are wandering all over, attacking and blaming Republicans....most notably the President. Of course, why place any blame on those who are SPECIFICALLY elected to serve New Orleans, like their City Council? Or their state's governor? I wonder why?
I just listened to a clip of one of the most racist elected officials this nation has ever laid claim to: Elisha Cummings. What a spew of racist trash. And its a Bush's fault.
Of course, there's not a single problem or disaster that can't be pinned on Bush. Or...Reagan. But that's ok. The public doesn't buy it. Instead of listening to this daily attack of liberal blamers....they open their wallets and help their fellow Americans. They don't care about the race-baiting scum....the pitch in and help.
Democrats: Show some class. This is not a time for blame, because that blame can equally be placed on Democrats. Be an American....just once.
Posted by: Dave at September 2, 2005 10:29 AMJeepers! One picture of a white male with an American flag and a rifle on a rooftop supposedly facing disaster and the Left goes ballistic.
Rush wins again. The picture, one of thousands, is just part of a promotional campaign to sell Rush Limbaugh "Club Gitmo" apparel. People buy the orange "prison" garb, which is a take-off on the luxurious conditions in Guantanamo most jihadis enjoy (glazed chicken, rice pilaf, soccer...) then photograph themselves at various locations, and then send the pics in to ol' Rush to post on his website --just to drive the Left crazy. And it works perfectly.
It's a posed picture. If the guy were in any real danger, he wouldn't be taking the time to climb on the roof with a flagpole in his lily-white Nikes with what looks like a pop-gun. This is satire at its finest. It's humor. And as we can see as above, the Left is without humor. Because in this monstrous disaster, the welfare policies and failed leadership of Democratic administrations at the state and local level in Louisiana completely failed and is everywhere on display. The elite liberal Democrats in charge did not stand and fight for the "little guy." They ran away. We see the result.
Posted by: Eracus at September 2, 2005 11:49 AMI harken back to the late Carl Rowan, who had advocated strict handgun control (to a point where he believed that anyone who had a gun that wasn't a law enforcement officer or military member should be sent to prison).Later in life, he "found himself in the center of a gun controversy during the 1980s when he was arrested and charged with using an unregistered weapon to wound a teen-ager who intruded into his backyard.
Rowan argued that he had the right to use whatever means necessary to protect himself and his family."
Good enough for Carl Rowan, good enough for lifetime NRA member Michael Moore, good enough for the rest of us.
Posted by: Just Me at September 2, 2005 12:12 PMWhy are you wasting so much time on the issue of guns, Mitch? How about putting the crisis these people are going through ahead of hunks of metal? To paraphrase the NRA: Guns don't kill people. Deflective, self-righteous, circuitously-argued, pseudo-nationalistic apathy in the face of human suffering does.
Yowling from the Fencepost -- Oh dear god.
Moses
Posted by: John Moses at September 2, 2005 09:05 PMRats... Looks as if my link didn't take. Here it is again...
Yowling from the Fencepost -- Oh dear god.
http://www.mirocat.com/2005/09/oh-dear-god.html
Apologies for the inconvenience.
Moses
Posted by: John Moses at September 2, 2005 09:08 PMThe inconvenience? It's nothing.
The gratuitous context-mangling, stuffing thoughts in my mouth and the name-calling? Sadly, more expected than not.
Posted by: mitch at September 3, 2005 08:31 AMFirst,
You didn't have looters in Grand Forks because it didn't take 3 days to get any semblence of order, folks weren't dying of heat, and you didn't cram 25000 people into a dark building with no water, no food, poor sanitation, etc..
This post pretends to suggest somehow we are better than those who are desparate. Such elitism, with hints of racism, is both as wrong as it is vile. Put yourself in a condition where your child is dying of heat exhaustion and TELL me you won't break open the local abandoned grocery market to get at some food and water, PUUULEEEAAZZEEE... the condescension evidenced here is disgusting.
With regard to the Thugs and Scum that hung out at the Convention Center, and in the streets in some cases, yes, the are scum, oh, but like rural MN doesn't have Meth Labs and Crank dealers, right?? The fact is this situation devolved becasue FEMA was staffed by a bunch of incompetent political hacks who failed to execute even thier own inadequate plan, because the state, local, and federal governments did piss all to plan for the aftermath (god that sounds familiar) of a huge catastrophe, and didn't have support (in terms of troops and logistics and leadership) back in place in time. I don't seriously think the issues in Grand Forks, even if they had to go without aid for 3 days would have ever devolved to the level you have in NO, but if that had happened in any other poor, uneducated, disenfranchised community, the results would have been the same.
The problems in NO, with their police department have been largely straightened out, making broad accusations of corruption are totally unfair to men and women who put their lives on the line in that city for three days without help or thanks. The issues of 1994 were solved when they fired all of the top leadership in that department (BTW under Clinton), and their murder rate has dropped by almost 50%. Again, the elitism is contemptable.
Perhaps you all need to actually read up or listen to reporters who have been there. Most of the "looting" is just desperate folks looking to stay alive. Some of the rest is a reaction to such a pathetically executed response, i.e. lawless was allowed to reign, and so it did, and yes, some is scum. Gosh, in a city SOOOO poor that 150k can't afford a way out, you're surprised that they'd loot? Maybe you need to consider whether trickle-down really works, whether you loved your neighbor enough that they don't live in filth and hopelessness, maybe you might want to look in a mirror once in a while, before you start thumping your chest at the vicarious "patriotism" you'd like to think you'd show. Patriotism that doesn't mean jack-all, as it's not like folks are staring down gangs of looters with their trusty '98 Winchester. The looting is done at abandoned stores and houses, and the rapes were happening at the convention center. So it's a hollow bravado, but further, being proud of it is just yet another sad, sad testimony to the hate and propensity for violence that peoople seem ready to show for their fellow countrymen, just because they are: from another area, from another economic class, or worst, another race.
Rather than getting all worked up about a guy and a flag (and the nubmer of posts here vs. the ones about actually helping shows YES you are all worked up), maybe you should think about the words Christ spoke in the parable of the good Samaritan, or in Matthew 25, That whichsoever you do to the least of me, you do also to me, when you visited the man in prison, you visited me, you fed me when I was hungry, you gave me water when I thirsted, you comforted me when I was in fear. If you think this is a nation founded on Christianity, perhaps, rather than putting up a picture about a guy with a flag and a gun, you should put out your hand.
PB
Posted by: PB at September 3, 2005 01:10 PM"This post pretends to suggest somehow we are better than those who are desparate. "
No. It doesn't.
And I've spend just as many posts urging people to help as I have arguing this topic.
Posted by: mitch at September 3, 2005 05:43 PMCrocodile tears. You've been reading the latest talking points memo apparently....
Uh....PB....ummm.....CNN was airing video of the...uh New Orleans uh...police...er...looting the Wal-Mart they were deployed to protect. (If the link is still active, you can view it here):
http://www.zippyvideos.com/8911023771013466/countdown-looting-in-walmart
And, um, well, gees... uh, tourism is a big deal in the Big Easy, which is how Blanco and Nagin got elected. They're Public Relations pros from way back -- and while they did, in fact, make a few arrests down the ranks, they were waayyy down the ranks, and more or less for the kind of stuff you see in the video. They didn't touch the Big Dawgs because, well, that's how a Red State like Louisiana gets saddled with Democratic administrations root and branch and besides, what's Mardi Gras without any coke? It's the jazz capital of the world, PB. It ain't got that swing if it ain't got that bling.
The NOPD works for the machine; it is essential to that machine. It's how it gets elected year after year. Oh, it protects folks alright, just not the ones you think. If you weren't so sucked in by the PR blitz of print and broadcast reporters proclaiming how great the casinos are, what a family pavilion Bourbon St. is, how New Orleans is Disneyland and so on -- you'd know that. It's how they get the coke in.
As for loving one's neighbor yada, yada, yada -- just who do you think has been in charge down there all this time? It wasn't FEMA. It certainly wasn't the GOP, and the Church throws a pretty mean bar-b-que every so often just to keep folks chillin'. That's how it works.
If you ever actually lived there (I have), nothing you're seeing now would in the least surprise you. Go check out Frogtown, or for that matter, north Minneapolis. That's how we do it in Minnesota. It's not about law and order; it's not even about racism. It's all about protecting the vote for the Man in the Big House.
Your man, PB?
Posted by: Eracus at September 3, 2005 06:34 PM"You didn't have looters in Grand Forks because it didn't take 3 days to get any semblence of order, folks weren't dying of heat, and you didn't cram 25000 people into a dark building with no water, no food, poor sanitation, etc.."
How about trying South Florida after Andrew? Other than putting folks in a Dome it was similar. It took 3 days to get the affluent area of Boca Raton, and much more than that to get to Homestead. Yet there was not much lawlessness and looting (other than Liberty City) after a few shots rang out on the looters. Been there. Lived through it. And besides, the folks in the Dome didn't seem to be the problem until the lawless folks came there.
"This post pretends to suggest somehow we are better than those who are desparate. Such elitism, with hints of racism, is both as wrong as it is vile. Put yourself in a condition where your child is dying of heat exhaustion and TELL me you won't break open the local abandoned grocery market to get at some food and water, PUUULEEEAAZZEEE... the condescension evidenced here is disgusting."
Quickly followed by:
"Gosh, in a city SOOOO poor that 150k can't afford a way out, you're surprised that they'd loot? "
Who's showing condescension now? Hmmm? Why does being poor give you an excuse to loot and riot when things go bad? Are poor folks somehow less human and less fully citizens than the rest of society? I thought we were all created with equal rights, and therefore equal responsibilities, which includes not going off and looting and raping your fellow citizens when you get the chance. Bzzt. BEING POOR IS NOT AN EXCUSE!
Sorry. I can see taking what you need from unoccupied stores that are unable to sell (or give, as they did in FL after Andrew) you what you need, but while that might technically be looting much of the stuff we saw was nothing less than larceny. Who needs a TV in that situation?
"The fact is this situation devolved becasue FEMA was staffed by a bunch of incompetent political hacks who failed to execute even thier own inadequate plan, because the state, local, and federal governments did piss all to plan for the aftermath (god that sounds familiar)..."
Who is ultimately responsible for the city and its plan? Is it the Federal government, whose charter is the interaction of the states and foreign lands? Or is the people of the city and state? I don't recall seeing the Feds try to block NO from putting in better levees.
The Feds need to step in when things absolutely fail, and they did step in. But they're hamstrung when local order falls apart by the Posse Commitatus Act. The Feds can't go in without Congressional approval for law enforcement work and Congress is certainly out of session, so no Federal armed forces members can go in there to maintain order. It fell to LA and NO to restore order via their National Guard and police forces. Until order had been restored commiting the troops didn't make sense. There are rules about these things, but before you go changing them think about the worst case situation of an even more extreme Fed government opposed to your values and think carefully if you want to remove those restrictions.
Sorry, but the worst of this was brought on by the incompetence local governments. That such poor planning was done in NO and LA isn't surprising, but having the Feds take over the responsibility for local planning seems, well, extremely suboptimal. After all, aren't local governments and agencies supposed to know local conditions?
Posted by: nerdbert at September 5, 2005 01:01 AMThat's just the thing; they did know local conditions, particularly that the Superdome could only be sustained as a shelter for a matter of hours, not days. Same with the hospitals and jails.
Essentially what they did was announce a mandatory evacuation without providing any means by which the people living in public housing could escape. Then they just opened the jails. The NOPD understandably was completely overwhelmed.
Roughly 20% of NO's population is entirely dependent on government subsidy. Not only did their Democratic patrons fail to provide for their evacuation, but they also unleashed upon them the criminal element which had no place else to go.
That they would then cry racism and blame Bush and FEMA and rely on the MSM to cover their tracks is about as morally repugnant as it gets.
Posted by: Eracus at September 5, 2005 10:20 AMThank you!
Posted by: Freda at October 28, 2006 05:08 PMhttp://dixieemma.blogspot.com/ | http://fawnjean.blogspot.com/ | http://hollykevin.blogspot.com/ | http://xegizo.com/swd1030/ford-9.html | http://adriannahe.blogspot.com/ | http://vomipi.net/swd1030/reviews-7.html | http://xegizo.com/swd1030/microsoft-1.html | http://xegizo.com/swd1030/ink.html | http://xopopo.biz/swd1030/school-5.html | http://vomipi.net/swd1030/jeans.html