Shot In The Dark: Ass-Hawks: A Question of Integrity

June 20, 2005

Ass-Hawks: A Question of Integrity

I make a point of reading lefty blogs. Lots of them.

You can thank me later.

First things first: I apologize for everything untoward that I ever said about Mark Gisleson. Having read some of the competition, he is now near the top of the list.

One site - "Jesus' General" - is a sort of "satire" site; it is to Scrappleface as Benny Hill is to Monty Python. It deals in the sort of broad, hamfisted japes that one might think would grab people who listen to Mike Molloy and think that Howard Dean is mainstream - or, for that matter, that Kos and Atrios and Ollie Willis are good blogs.

Their latest - a challenge to "College Republicans" to join the military.

If it's not crudely scatological, it's not a leftyblog production!

Anyway, the "thought" behind the "campaign" is roughly this:

Since you wingnut college Republicans support the war, you'd better enlist!

Hm. It'd be interesting to find out if college Republicans (or college students who identify themselves as GOP) do join the military at higher than average levels. I doubt that the statistics are kept, but I'd suspect that it's probably true; how many ROTC students do you suspect are Democrats...

...but never mind. The real point is to take the "logic" of this idea and make sure it's applied consistently. One of the left's favorite mindless memes (let's call them "Mimes") is the "chickenhawk" meme, where if you didn't or don't serve in the military, you supposedly can't comment in favor of the war.

And yet, many of these same Democrats pointedly avoid putting their own butts on the line when it comes to their own pet zealotries. These people I hereby christen "Asshawks".

So, Democrats, here we go: We're going to plumb the depths of your personalities and find out how important "integrity" really is. We're going to find out if you're an Asshawk.

Let's get started:

If you believe in single-payer health care, but have private health insurance: Have you marched down to the Department of Motor Vehicles, handed your paperwork over to Gladys the depressive dyspeptic behind the counter, and told her she's in charge of all of your life and death health decisions?
If you were one of the moron leftybloggers who posted photos of George W. Bush in the crosshairs - an implicit threat of violence - do you plan within the next 90 days to come up out of Mom's basement, and go mano a mano with the Secret Service in an attempt to harm the President?
If you oppose school vouchers, have you dropped out of your private university or private high school/prep school? Have you MacAlester and Saint Thomas and Hamline kids transferred to Normandale or Metro State yet?
If you opposed carry reform, have you walked to the corner of Payne and Minnehaha (or Franklin and Chicago, or any tough street where you live), found a rape about to happen, and told the victim-to-be "resisting with lethal force would only debase society"?
If you have ever called a war supporter who didn't serve a "chickenhawk"; have you ever been in a situation where you served others in a position where you had little control over your own use or disposition, and where walking away without consequences wasn't an option?
If you claimed you were going to move to Canada after the '00 or '04 elections; are you reading this while taking a break from watching "Hockey Night In Canada", drinking a LaBatt's, and trying to figure out how to make MS Outlook do Task List dates in 2007 so you can put in a reminder for your root canal appointment?
Have all of you who think Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo involved "torture" in the sense any real torture victim would understand actually read - in color, with details - about what Joseph Mengele or Pol Pot actually did?
If you thought the US was wrong to invade Iraq, did you fly to Iraq to serve as a human shield? Not as a pampered "Information Ministry" guest, mind you, but as a common Iraqi?
If you believe life for the average Iraqi was better before Hussein's fall - if you believed Michael Moore's depiction of pre-'03 life in Iran as an idyll of kites and happy children - have you flown to Iraq, to Kurdistan, to the Marsh, to the Iranian border, and said it in as many words to the locals?

If you answered "No" to any of those questions...

...then you are an Asshawk!

Posted by Mitch at June 20, 2005 05:22 AM | TrackBack

Comments

Why don't the Democrats ever think of the consequences of their positions?

The whole "chickenhawk" argument is just a call for military dictatorship. If you can't support a war without being in the military, then we shouldn't have a civilian government. We should be a military dictatorship, and then we won't have to worry about "chickenhawks".

Besides, I don't recall anyone on the left making that argument when draft-dodger Bill Clinton was bombing the hell out of Belgrade...

Posted by: Jay Reding at June 20, 2005 07:34 AM

In the old days, lefties had a work ethic:

From:
http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

Jane Fonda also helped in the organization of a production group called the F.T.A. (F*** The Army). This group helped to set up coffee houses near military bases where they would perform anti-war derogatory-type sketches for the visiting soldiers. The coffee-house sketches were intended to counterpoint the U.S.O. shows, such as Bob Hope and other U.S.O. sponsored performers whose performances increased morale and gave positive support to American soldiers. Some of the F.T.A. coffee house employees would mingle with the soldiers to help them to "relax and unwind", while encouraging the soldiers to desert. Some soldiers alleged that they were promised jobs and money by the F.T.A. if they deserted.

Posted by: RBMN at June 20, 2005 08:28 AM

Down in here in Eagan, MN, there are still many Kedwards bumper stickers on vehicles, some even have brand new Wellstone! stickers. The most common vehicle to sport these stickers? Big honkin' luxury SUVs, usually of Japanese manufacture. These folks can obviously afford it, so why are they not driving a Toyota Prius?

Granted you'll still see plenty of W sticker down here on similar vehicles, but republicans didn't make the claim that SUVs were ruining the planet

Posted by: rick at June 20, 2005 09:06 AM

You might find that many college Republicans have already served in the military.

Posted by: Night Writer at June 20, 2005 09:53 AM

Night Writer:

Bingo. I wonder if you took a survey of College Republicans compared to the college population at large, how many are:

a) Already veterans
b) In the Guard and Reserve to pay for school
c) In ROTC
d) Going to join eventually, for one
reason or another.

I have a hunch the answer would be inconvenient to the chickenhawk crowd.

Posted by: mitch at June 20, 2005 09:57 AM

Oh, I particularly love the Escalades and the Suburbans I see with the Kerry/Edwards stickers and the WWWD ones. That's right....they are trying to put Wellstone-d into the same category as the What Would Jesus Do stickers.

I always wondered how long it would take to make Wellstone-d a saint. Not long.

Posted by: Dave at June 20, 2005 11:58 AM

Silence from Mitch's leftist readers...

Posted by: FJBill at June 20, 2005 12:57 PM

Can you help decipher this for my feeble, liberal mind:
"have you ever been in a situation where you served others in a position where you had little control over your own use or disposition, and where walking away without consequences wasn't an option?"

So, you're what they call a "submissive"? Coincidentally, General JC Christian has a guy in Seattle who he pays to punish him whenever he strays from the path of righteousness. Perhaps you go to the same guy?

Posted by: Nordy at June 20, 2005 01:15 PM

Ah, goody. More of the "General's" dull-witted anonydrones.

Have fun, Mitch

Posted by: Josh at June 20, 2005 01:17 PM

yaaaaaaaawwwnn....nobody cares what you think.

Posted by: uboreme at June 20, 2005 01:17 PM

you are an idiot and i should come and kill you.

liberals are better people and funnier.

Posted by: conservativessuck at June 20, 2005 01:18 PM

I have not read "in color" about what Jospeph Mengele or Pol Pot actually did. Can you please direct me to where I can find books written in crayon? Most books I read are in strictly black typeface.

Posted by: Nordy at June 20, 2005 01:20 PM

Ubor,

And yet, you're here.

Nordy,

Wow. A keen mind is something to behold.

Con,

Go ahead. Stop on by.

Posted by: Mitch at June 20, 2005 01:20 PM

Nordy,

I figured the "Color" reference would be a little sophisticated for you. Do try to keep up.

And thanks for proving everything I said about the "General's" audience!

Posted by: Mitch at June 20, 2005 01:22 PM

the general is funny and makes a good point.

you aren't and don't.

that about covers it.

Posted by: melanie at June 20, 2005 01:29 PM

Yoohoo here I am. Never heard of Mitch before I saw the link at Jesus General's site. I guess you could consider me one of Mitch's leftist readers.
Let me comment. What kind of argument is this?

"If you have ever called a war supporter who didn't serve a "chickenhawk"; have you ever been in a situation where you served others in a position where you had little control over your own use or disposition, and where walking away without consequences wasn't an option?"

Well yeah. It was called a job. But let me get this straight you won't serve because the Army isn't a democracy? Is that it? Let me tell ya something kids. There's a war on and the volunteer US Army is literally falling apart. We've missed
our recruiting goals 4 months runnning. In May we missed by 25% even AFTER lowering our sights from over 8000 to 6700 new enlistees. Army Recruiting Command had to have a "stand down day" last month to remind recruiters that kidnapping, threats and lying are not approved Army sales techniques. The generals are telling Rumsfeld if this downward trend doesn't change we'll have to pull out of Iraq or reinstitute the draft. You support Bush, you support his policy in Iraq, staying the course in all it's glory, correct? I've been to the College Republican Nat'l Committee website. There's plenty of internships and jobs available at the Heritage Foundation and the AEI on their site but not one, not one stinking link to any military recruitment site at all. Nada, zip, bupkis. That's not right. You wanted this war and if you want it to succeed and make arguments like that you are not only nothing but a chickenhawk but probably have never even been gainfully employed.

Posted by: Mark Garrity at June 20, 2005 01:38 PM

Only a Republican would try to put health care under the responsibility of the DMV, most likely under the heavy influence of a cadre of lobbyists.

Such a great post - I've never seen so many straws grasped at in rapid succession. Too bad none of your straws sucks quite a true as "Warriors for Freedom and Justice" sending others off to die.

Such sad, one-track thoughts. No wonder you people still think Neil Diamond is worth $90 a ticket.

Posted by: DirkLeisure at June 20, 2005 01:41 PM

Mark,

Wow - a "General" reader who uses something that looks like an actual name! For that, I'll actually respond:

"Well yeah. It was called a job. But let me get this straight you won't serve because the Army isn't a democracy?"

Wow. Good thing you wanted to "get this straight"; my point is mars, you are venus.

I'm turning the "chickenhawk" logic back on you people. Few if any of you have ever risked anything serious for any causes.

"Is that it?"

No.

"Let me tell ya something kids. There's a war on and the volunteer US Army is literally falling apart."

PUT DOWN THE DAILY KOS.

Recruitment goals are off (for the Army), but reinlistment is way up, for starters. Beyond that - yep. The Army's got some recruiting work to do.

I'll await a point to your argument:

""You wanted this war and if you want it to succeed and make arguments like that you are not only nothing but a chickenhawk but probably have never even been gainfully employed. "

And I still wait.

Well, no. I don't. I've been through the General's fans' anonymous twaddle before. Not worth the time or effort.

Posted by: mitch at June 20, 2005 01:47 PM

I don't care if a minority of College Republicans have already served. They should be serving now. The military is suffering a manpower crisis. It needs trained people.

You demanded this foolish war. You should be out there fighting it. Are your affirmative action bakesales and immigranty hunts more important?

Posted by: patriotboy at June 20, 2005 10:37 PM

All Americans who love this country and stand for the longevity and health of this country should be joining the military. To stay away from joining simply because you are against "the war" is 100% Counter American.

Posted by: tony at June 20, 2005 11:15 PM

Rest assured that despite the emergency klaxxon being sounded by the media, your military is doing just fine. While the Army will always welcome new recruits, they would rather see sharp minds stay in school and potentially better our society.
A better way to 'serve' would be to provide support on the homefront by reminding our politicians that 'loose lips, sink ships' and that partisan queep shoveled forth to further their political agenda merely fuels our adversaries and chips away at the morale of our troops. Force them to let facts get in the way of their inflamatory rhetoric! That is all.

Posted by: fingers at June 21, 2005 08:34 AM

Yeah, fingers, well maybe you chickenhawk neocons should join the military and...

...oh, wait. Never mind.

Posted by: mitch at June 21, 2005 09:23 AM

I don't know what drugs fingers is on, but I would point out the following:

The Army missed it's May recruiting goal by 30%. Currently, we are having to cancel basic training classes because we don't have enough recruits the the pipeline. (Don't believe me, go visit Ft Benning sometime.)

I would rather see some sharp minds in the military as opposed to the duds that we are currently enlisting. How do I know this?

Because I have been in the Army for the past 22 years & it is real easy to see that the quality of recruit is going into the toilet. It has gotten to the point that to kick a drug user out of the Army now takes the Ok of a General Officer (O-7 or higher). Normally, they are kicked to the curb by the Battalion Commander (O-5).

Just out of curiosity, for those of you that claim to "support the troops". What do you do?
I constantly hear that "we support the troops BS, but I have never seen any results.

I'm sorry, but the Army doesn't need any cheerleaders. We need some men to step up to the plate.

And what chance of that is there with this crowd?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Regards

Posted by: ssgbryan at June 21, 2005 07:04 PM

Ssgt,

If the Army wants a 42 year old single father with a bad knee, have your people call my people.

As to what drugs fingers is on - I personally know him, and without breaking any confidences I believe it's safe to say that he's been in the service, on active duty and in positions of fairly great responsibility, for nearly as long as you have.

As to what I do - well, Sarge, what do you suggest? I, for one, am doing what I can - via the blog but mainly via the radio program - to make sure our troops don't come home to the same situation they did in 1970. My blog, along with the rest of the NAOB, raised all the money we could for military charities over the winter.

Beyond that, I'm open to suggestions.

By the way - what's your MOS?

Posted by: mitch at June 21, 2005 09:04 PM

Ok, lets run through everything,

This whole thread started with some Democrats pointing out the hypocrisy of Young Republicans. I can assure you, at the national convention, they will push some BS resolution about the war. But they WON'T be rushing down to the recruiting station. No doubt, they have "other priorities". It isn't about serving or not serving, it is about supporting a war, but not having the balls to move to the sound of the guns.

All I have seen is why perfectly healthy boys and girls support the war but are unwilling to serve. Remember, it is about hypocrisy.

I am tired of hearing people who "support the troops" & they won't even risk their damned paint job. Remember, it is about "we support the war, we just don't want to serve."

Moving on to comments:

As far as finger's comment that: "they would rather see sharp minds stay in school and potentially better our society."

You want to better society, A hitch in the military will do wonders. There is a reason that so many companies look to hire ex-military folks. As a soldier, you learn self-discipline, attention to detail and the ability to prioritize. Once you move into a leadership position, there is a whole new skill set that you can apply to that civilian job.

We need sharp minds in the Army. When I came in the Army, we were still rebuilding from Vietnam. If you didn't serve in this time, I don't think you could have any understanding of how bad it was. If you want an idea, go read Gen Powell's book, in particular his time as a Battalion Commander. It took a very long time to recover from this.

As far as mitch goes, www.goarmy.com Where there is a will, there is a waiver. I hate to bust you bubble, but the 70's are over & no one looks down on the troops other than a few kooks on both the left and right. So quite frankly, as far as I am concerned, you are just aiding and abetting the chickenhawks.

Raising money is nice, but have you done any of the following:

Conducted any recruiting drives?
Forwarded names of potential recruits to your friendly neighborhood recruiter?
Talked to your kids about serving in the military.
Asked your congress critter why OMB wants to cut the VA budget?

If not, why not?

As far as my MOS, I'd have to look at what my orders say; I started out as an admin pogue, then went signal for about a decade.

(Note to all potential recruits. The bonus for a shortage MOS is great, however, there is a reason that the Army has shortage MOS's. The jobs suck, there is no upward mobility, not to mention it almost takes an act of Congress to leave that MOS. In my case, the entire Career Management Field had to go away.) A nice little detour to the Infantry center & time as an Infantry Plt Sgt. (Why? Because they offered me a second rocker & time as a Plt Sgt means I would move up & I did. Second note: Don't do the cool stuff at the end of your career. Go to airborne school when you are young. It is a whole lot harder to get out of bed at 35 rather than 25. Trust me on this one. Of course, this is coming from someone who will be going off to Air Assault at age 42, so YMMV.)

Posted by: ssgbryan at June 21, 2005 11:57 PM

Sarge,

"This whole thread started with some Democrats pointing out the hypocrisy of Young Republicans. I can assure you, at the national convention, they will push some BS resolution about the war. But they WON'T be rushing down to the recruiting station. No doubt, they have "other priorities"."

Will they move down the avenue in a phalanx to the recruiting station? No, but then either will any other segment of society.

Will a greater proportion of them join per capita than, say, non-YR college kids? I don't know - and either does anyone else, but I suspect that statistically there may be a higher percetage of them joining (and a higher percentage of them who are already veterans) than other demographics in that age group. Just a hunch; prove me wrong.

"All I have seen is why perfectly healthy boys and girls support the war but are unwilling to serve. Remember, it is about hypocrisy."

It's also an incredibly broad generalization.

"I am tired of hearing people who "support the troops" & they won't even risk their damned paint job. Remember, it is about "we support the war, we just don't want to serve."

Another incredibly broad generalization; we'll come back to that later.

"As far as finger's comment that: "they would rather see sharp minds stay in school and potentially better our society."

Sarge, of all the people on this thread you can lecture, fingers is the last one. Without going into details, he's a career officer in a combat arms area, with just about as much service as you. His opinion carries every bit as much weight as yours does - or as I presume yours does (after all the years I worked in bars, I'm pretty hardcore about tripping up people who are lying about having been in the military. Pretty good at it, too - although I'm fairly sure you're legit)

"As far as mitch goes, www.goarmy.com Where there is a will, there is a waiver."

Not for me. I actually tried to join the Guard when I was 27. My knee was a showstopper. That and being, y'know, 42 and all, I suspect, is a problem.

" I hate to bust you bubble, but the 70's are over & no one looks down on the troops other than a few kooks on both the left and right."

And we all know history never repeats. Right? It could NEVER happen here, right?

" So quite frankly, as far as I am concerned, you are just aiding and abetting the chickenhawks."

You're REALLY barking up the wrong tree now.

"Raising money is nice, but have you done any of the following:

Never heard of 'em, yes, yes and yes.

Posted by: mitgch at June 22, 2005 12:15 AM

Mitch,
I'll try to send you some thoughts on the issue later this week if I get a chance. The USA is doing great work and is obviously feeling the strain--not all of it is due to Iraq and that is where I'll try to go with the 'thought chain.' If the 'muse' will hit me, I'll try to thread the current Army situation all the way back to our Constitution and what it says about a 'standing Army' (or lack thereof) and why there has always been friction.

Posted by: fingers at June 22, 2005 08:35 AM

What an incredible bunch of lying cowards chickenhawks are. It's disgusting that people have to die because you all are so stupid.

Posted by: Jeff at June 22, 2005 09:46 PM

Jeff,

Er, yeah. Hard to argue with airtight logic like that.

Posted by: mitch at June 23, 2005 08:45 AM

Reading this blog was a waste of time. The only one who made any sense was ssgbryan. Mitch you are a thick-headed bitter man.

Posted by: patrick at July 6, 2005 01:24 AM

Patrick, then stay the fuck away, nutsack.

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