It's ok to spend billions on big government solutions as long as it's for *corporate* welfare, eh?

Tell ya what, Clown; someday when the oil gets completely cut off, let's see what happens to your beloved New York.

Without energy, you are a couple of weeks away from being Lagos.

What do you mean "cut off"? We're extending democracy in the Middle East, from our stronghold in a reconstructed Iraq, so that can never happen. Aren't we?

I'll put this in the pop-culture terms that liberals find so palatable.

To paraphrase the Flock of Seagulls, "Iran not so far away".

How brilliant to invoke Kennedy and suggest something like this when taking about energy independence...

oh wait... I think I may have seen that already.

http://www.apolloalliance.org/

Let's see... Where did I see this?

Oh yeah. It was during the 2004 elections where it was discussed at length on Air America Radio.

All of a sudden Mitch sounds like a peak oiler. Maybe he's sensing the shift in the political winds and is moving from the paranoid-fringe right to the paranoid-fringe left.

I can't wait to read his 9/11 conspiracy theory.

The next thing you know, Mitch and company will start demanding that the Administration provide some sort of strategy for winning in Iraq.

Doug, Air America, like all libs, was in addition yapping about the practicality of solar and wind power (hahahaha) and the need to downsize our economy to make it more "sustainable". They also propose a much bigger government role than experience or sanity could possibly support.

I don't suspect other conservatives, or Mitch, are suggesting any such thing. Any good conservative supports prudent planning AND a pro-growth strategy. The various liberal sides of this debate do not.

So you're off the mark, I think.

Polack said,

"I don't suspect other conservatives, or Mitch, are suggesting any such thing."

Although one could always follow the link I offered to see for themselves what the "libs" at Air America were talking about but I realize that doing your own leg work is hard work.

Best leave it to Ed and Mitch to spoon feed you.

Yo, Doug

Outside of the apparent synergy between the use of the JFK imagery, I see a classic lieberal / conservative dissonace between what Capt Ed is proposing and what Apollo Alliance is proposing.

Take a look at their 10 point plan

Efficiency , Smart growth , Modernize

It ain't easy being green , baby!

I'll get behind any program that realizes the the new pebblebed nuclear plants are orders of magnitude safer than 3 mile island et. al and a program that doesn't sound like a bland re-digestion of Sierra Club tropes

"the practicality of solar and wind power (hahahaha)"

Why do you think solar and wind power are impractical?

Joshua,

1) Solar power is situational , but I beleive that the current generation of photovotaic cells is still to expensive to produce to be cost effective. I could well be wrong in that belief

2) Wind power is geographically limited Minnesota is on the whole a windier state and so can benefit from wind farms. Other locations less so

and additionally the NIMBY type folks don't want to live next to a wind farm

chaosfish observed: "and additionally the NIMBY type folks don't want to live next to a wind farm"

But they'd totally go for living next to a NUCLEAR POWER PLANT.

chaos: I think you're right about PV. It's expensive and, I believe, currently causes more environmental problems that it solves.

Wind power is kind of another story. I was curious what Polack thought qualified it for hahahaha status.

Clown,

Ever seen a wind farm? Dozens of hundred-fifty foot tall towers (I've seen as many as seventy) with hundred-foot blades spinning away - a *really* imposing sight. Bigger than a nuke plant? Yes.

Joshua,

Bear in mind that I'm an alt energy supporter. The big problem with wind and solar power is that they produce *much* less power for a given amount of time, land, capital and resources than coal, hydrocarbons or nukes. They don't (currently) provide the density of power to supply things like cities; the sun and wind don't (yet) reliably supply enough energy per acre/dollar/hour devoted to it to support the amount of power an American city uses.

Don't even get me started on ethanol, which takes more energy to produce than it yields. Now - if you were to hook up an ethanol plant to a wind farm or a nuke plant...

I'm hoping that someday, hopefully soon, they do; it'd be great to see the oil sheiks lining up at the welfare office. Until then, nukes provide the best bridge we have available to us.

Um, yeah Mitch, has seen wind farms *and* nuke plants. I'll take the nice quiet propellers. You can live next to the China Syndrome.

AC,

Far be it from me to harsh your mitch slapping buzz, but the newer generation of Nukes are quite safe and I'd have no problem living near one

Outside of the that whole living near a big ugly industrial thing. But thats esthetics , not safety concerns

My dad worked at San Onofre nuclear plant for 13 years as a NPEO (nuclear plant equipment operator) before medical conditions forced his retirement - he threw his back out and it degenerated to the point he couldn't work anymore. He didn't get radiated. He had to get certified to receive his "red badge", which basically gave him full run of the plant. Not like he ever would have, but if he needed to, he had the full authority to dive headfirst into the primary cooling loop pool.

He said that there was a saying amongst the employees in the nuke plant industry:

"More people have been killed at Chappaquiddick, than have been killed because of nuclear plant accidents in the U.S."

All the talk of NIMBY is a non-sequitor anyway. Power plants don't get built in people's back yards. They're put miles away from the nearest towns for many reasons.

Gee Bill C., that must also be fewer people than Laura Bush has killed while behind the wheel.

And exactly the same as the number of people Hillary! has killed, assuming you leave out VINCE FOSTER!

Hey, this is fun!

"Um, yeah Mitch, has seen wind farms *and* nuke plants. "

Yep. Within the same car trip.

On the way from the Twin Cities to my parents' places one drives past the Monticello nuke plant (about 40 miles NW of Minneapolis) and then, in North Dakota, several wind farms - one along I94 somewhere around Valley City, and a couple along 83 between Bismark and Minot.