Another sign of our fantastic economy. We're up to 5 pages of forclosures in out little hometown newspaper.

Maybe someone can explain why the figures cited for the alleged booming economy have absolutely zero correlation to what I see happening to real people?

As a side note, in the retail world I work in, we are seeing a huge increase in the number of applicants from Realtors who can't make a living and from guys who work construction.

The talk at work is that we will see large numbers of construction companies failing this fall.

"Maybe someone can explain why the figures cited for the alleged booming economy have absolutely zero correlation to what I see happening to real people?"

Because of the people you see?

If you work in low-end retail (not named as a judgement or pejorative, merely a market segment), it's pretty likely you'll run into more than your share of people who aren't, for whatever reason, able to stay ahead of their own personal market. Again, no judgement implied; I was there once myself. Just saying, you run into a lot of country-western songs in the making at WalMart (or did before country became an offshoot of pop...but now I"m REALLY digressing...)

"As a side note, in the retail world I work in, we are seeing a huge increase in the number of applicants from Realtors who can't make a living and from guys who work construction."

Which people have been predicting for quite a while. The housing bubble is deflating (not, apparently, popping), which means people in the biz are being displaced. This is something people have been foreseeing for a couple of years now; interest rates HAVE to rise sometime.

I have realtor and m0rtgage industry contacts who've been waiting on a big shakeout for years (and, in some cases, have been diversifying and/or learning new stuff to prepare for it). Ditto construction.

"Maybe someone can explain why the figures cited for the alleged booming economy have absolutely zero correlation to what I see happening to real people? "

Just who are these "real people"? Are they friends of those "working families" I keep hearing the left noodling about all the time?

If the "real people" have any marketable skills, they should be doing pretty well for themselves these days, in fact if you know any "real engineers" or "real technicians" or "real programmers" you should have them contact me ASAP; we've been looking to hire them for the past two months.

Trouble is that it looks like all the other "real companies" that employ "real engineers", "real technicians" and "real programmers" are hiring too.

If the "real people" you're hanging out with are floundering Dougie, maybe it's because they are not "real bright"...maybe they haven't been living within "real means".

With the exception of "real union schlubs" who are learning the harsh reality of letting someone else do their talking for them while they waste their potential doing tasks that "real machines" can do twice as fast at half the cost all I see out here is vast, vast prosperity.

Funny how the corporate bankruptcy laws have changed over the last few years. The large companies with huge pension plans negotiated with unions have, through lobbying, managed to change the laws enough to leave loopholes that allow them to escape from the burden (negotiated and promised though it was) of these plans.

Unfortunately, the companies continue to make money while a lot of the burden of these pension and health care liabilities are dumped onto the taxpayer. And every business that gets in financial trouble due to corporate mismanagement will be lining up.

You know, when you and I as individuals, enter into a contract and then do not honor the contract, we don't have the protections that these huge companies have.

I think I have a little more sympathy than most of you for the guys who work their 30 and then have a large portion of their future taken away.

Anyone who has worked 30+ years for the same company and was relying on a company pension WITHOUT putting aside money of their own, was not planning for their future at all. The warnings have been out there (about shinking company pensions) ever since I hit the workforce 25 years ago.

That's not the point of the post. You're putting the blame of the company not fulfilling it's contract on the employee?

These companies buy and sell the law.

The point of the post is that these companies make up the rules and then do not play by them. Personal savings plans or lack thereof don't make a wrong right.

Of course there are some of you that will say that "the market" determines what is "right", but that's not true.

I'm not saying these people should not have planned for the future. I'm saying that the people who make the rules change them ind the middle of the game, and that the little guy, whether he protects him/herself or not, generally gets the shaft.

". . . the little guy, whether he protects him/herself or not, generally gets the shaft."
That's what makes him the little guy!

Not sure what solution you're looking for, Jackscrow. The government itself takes my 12.4% SS tax and puts it into general revenue rather than setting it aside for me, just like the bad companies you're talking about. On the other hand my tiaa-cref 401K is doing just fine & it consists of actual dollars, not a promise from the gov't or a company which may not exist a decade from now.

Not really expecting a solution, although if you have one, go for it!

Everybody deciding to do right instead of ripping each other off would be a good place to start, but that's the greed of human nature.

The point is exactly what I said: "Personal savings plans or lack thereof don't make a wrong right." "These companies buy and sell the law" and it seems that some are blaming the victim for not having foresight instead of the holding these companies accountable for reneging on a contract.

BTW, hope no one runs off with or embezzles yer hard earned 401K money. Faith in the market is a wonderful thing. Good thing you haven't invested it back into the company that employs you, right? Tiaa-cref -- are you in public service or education? There ya go, invest it all in your public school.

Glad your "actual dollars" are doing fine. You know, without the good (and misplaced) faith the government that is already stealing from you expects, that money in yer 401K is worth a little less than tissue paper.

Ten years from now, we may still have a government (more's the pity), but don't count too much on there being an economy.

So many things to respond. So little time between meetings.

But this one...:

"Ten years from now, we may still have a government (more's the pity), but don't count too much on there being an economy."

If I had a nickel for every time in the past thirty years I've heard that exact line, I woulnd't NEED a job.

You've got a job?

Yeah, I was probably a little too honest there, but back to the point I was making about pensions....

What do you think about equating the wrong of a company weaseling out on the pension to the foolishness of the long-term employee actually needing that pension?

"What do you think about equating the wrong of a company weaseling out on the pension to the foolishness of the long-term employee actually needing that pension?"

I am making no such equation. If a company is legally obligated to pay a pension (and I'm not familiar with how the law actually *works* as re defined benefit pensions, since I have never had one and will never have the opportunity), they should husband that pension fund carefully. Obviously many do not (as, indeed, many government pension managers do not).

But my post had *nothing* to do with pensions. It was about the individuals' obligation to ensure their own ability to earn a living.

Jackscrow-
"Everybody deciding to do right instead of ripping each other off would be a good place to start, but that's the greed of human nature."
If we could all agree on what it meant to "do right" there would be no need for a political state.

"The point is exactly what I said: "Personal savings plans or lack thereof don't make a wrong right." "These companies buy and sell the law" and it seems that some are blaming the victim for not having foresight instead of the holding these companies accountable for reneging on a contract."

But how can company X be bound to a contract it signed with a 25 year old worker in 1965 when it cannot tell what position it will be in to honor that contract in 2005? I'm just playing the devil's advocate here. If Ford had a lock on, say, 1/3 of automobile sales in the US in 1965 how could it tell that in 2005 it would be competing with foreign manufacturers who do not have to pay union wages & benefits? If the US gov't protects Ford by placing high tarrifs on foreign car manufacturers, doesn't that amount to a multi-thousand dollar tax on the Little Guy everytime he purchases a car? Why should our Little Guy pay that tax to insure the comfortable retirement of a UAW worker when he's probably looking at scraping by on SS himself?

"BTW, hope no one runs off with or embezzles yer hard earned 401K money. Faith in the market is a wonderful thing. Good thing you haven't invested it back into the company that employs you, right? Tiaa-cref -- are you in public service or education? There ya go, invest it all in your public school."
Right now the federal government is taking my SS money & spending it. They've already raised the age when I can get full benefits once -- thus rewriting my 'contract' after it began. Who am I supposed to trust with overseeing my 401k dollars? The federal government? The market? What's my 3rd choice? Should I buy overpriced Krugerands and hide them under the bed? Or should I buy overpriced real estate? And by the way I work for a scientific research organization that is funded by a consortium of atate universities and some federal money. I am not a public employee and I have no union protection. If the head of my company mismanages it so badly that it goes under, or if the company dismisses me for any reason, tiaa-cref will roll over my retirement bucks into another 401k, hold it for me in an interest bearing account, or write me a very large check. Not a bad set of options for a Little Guy.

Using your analogy, if you buy a home with a 30 year fixed rate in 1990 and in 2006 your bank lobbies the government to allow a raise the rate, that would be ok, right?

I just think that allowing these companies to reneg and default is wrong. I guess I'm a little naive there.

Glad you've covered your options as well as you can. I do the 401K thing too. But I'm also using all the extra I can muster to invest in things that I would really need if there came a devaluing, etc.... I'm just not very confident in the future of our economy.

Oh, I can sympathize with the workers who were promised a fixed-benefit pension & ended up with squat. I paid into the CDC retirement plan for five years in the 1980's. I'll never see a penny of that money.

Pensions are becoming a thing of the past anyway. More and more companies are moving to matching 401k contributions as an incentive to hirees. The fantasy that a company is going to exist and remain profitable forever is just that, a fantasy.
We're in a Global Market now, like it or not, and quaint notions like the pension are as dead as communism.
One bright spot: Insane government taxation to provide pseudo-pensions will force Industry to look at countries that have more conservative policies.

Mitch said,

"Because of the people you see?

If you work in low-end retail..."

Mitch... Come on... The people I'm talking about are not cashiers at Walmart.

In a tragically funny piece of irony... Swiftee said,

"If the "real people" you're hanging out with are floundering Dougie, maybe it's because they are not "real bright"...maybe they haven't been living within "real means"."

Well Swiftee, these aren't people I hang out with. They are my neighbors primarily and people in my community.

I live in a very conservative upper middle class community and the ratio of conservatives to liberals I would guess is 4 to 1.

I'm about to say something I never thought I would ever say... Swiftee's right...

Um, Doug...If your neighbors were really "conservative upper middle class" they'd have good jobs. There's a boatload of them out there for anyone willing to go look.
If, however, they tend toward sitting around moaning about how the economy isn't all THAT good and what's the government going to do about this sad state of affairs, I'm willing to bet you have got that 4 to 1 ratio a little skewed.

Just FYI-
The most conservative congressional districts in MN are #2 and #3. #3 is Western Hennepin County and #2 is all of Scott, LaSeur, Goodhue, Rice, Goodhue, and Dakota Counties (I used to live there), as well as a bit of Southern Ramsey County and a smidgeon of Washington county (I used to live in Washington County as well). These districts, the most conservative in MN, voted about 3/2 for Bush over Kerry.
By comparison District #5 (The DFL's gift to Ellison) voted for Kerry over Bush in 2004 by about 2.5 to 1.
You gotta get out more, Doug. I think you'd find more than one person out of five in your area is a DFL'er. Or you could move closer to the to the UM campus.

When Doug "gets out" it's usually to don the apron and pin on the nametag.

Kermit said,

"Um, Doug...If your neighbors were really "conservative upper middle class" they'd have good jobs."

Who said they didn't have good jobs numbnutz?

I said it was ironic that in my area which is very conservative and very Republican, there are a whole bunch of homes in forclosure. Swiftee pointed out that it is because they havent been living within their "real means".

He's right. They haven't. A drive around town past the huge homes for sale with the toy's in the driveways accentuate that point. The political lawn signs are a pretty good tip off to their political leanings.

I know four families trying to "downsize" their homes right now. Since their kids are all still in in Jr. High and Highschool, I'm geussing that's code for "we can't afford the house". I also know one family who is about to lose their home in Lake Elmo in forclosure. Every one of them is Republican. By comparison, I don't know any liberals in the same situation.

Maybe that's because for the last 5 years of the Bush economy, we liberals were busy conserving while you conservatives were busy spending liberally.

Now let's see, you buy a house you can't afford, drive vehicles that get 12 - 15 gallons to the mile and carry $9,000 balances on you credit cards - the national average and that makes you conservative how?

What gets folks in most trouble financially is this "Keep up with Joneses" mentality. That is actually HUMAN nature, not anything having to do with political affiliation. To give anecdotal examples and say it is an overall trend with conservatives is asinine.

"Now let's see, you buy a house you can't afford, drive vehicles that get 12 - 15 gallons to the mile and carry $9,000 balances on you credit cards - the national average and that makes you conservative how?"

Because conservatives are by nature more optimistic than liberals!

In one post Doug includes all those houses for sale and the assertion that "I live in a very conservative upper middle class community and the ratio of conservatives to liberals I would guess is 4 to 1" (unproven).
Then the King of numbnutz offers this: "Who said they didn't have good jobs numbnutz?"

You did, by insinuation. I wonder if you even realize it when you're doing it.

Brad said,

"What gets folks in most trouble financially is this "Keep up with Joneses" mentality.

No Brad. What gets folks in most trouble financially is this "I deserve it" mentality. Take the single biggest areas of stress in a mariage - finances. I see this everyday Brad.

Alright, sex is the biggest bit I digress...

Wife wants a couple luxuries in a new kitchen - something as simple as a stupid pull out recycling bin. Husband rolls his eyes and complains about the price. Wife hits husband with comment about the boat/snowmobile/ATV/Truck that husband just had to have. Husband ALWAYS gives the "yeah, well I work hard - I deserve it" line.

In 9 out of 10 design sessions with couples, the husband gets irritated, gets up and walks away. The wife vents to me about all the crap he wastes money on and complains because there's never enough money.

Now I don't know the political affiliation of every one of my clients but I am treated to a daily dose of bash the democrats because "they just want to take more and more of the customers hard earned money".

Now that's a perfectly legitimate argument but I thinks it's a bit absurd considering that so many people seem to have no issue paying their creditors an average of $1200.00 per year.

"Only secure as you are marketable"? Who designed the product the company is trying to sell, the design team or the line worker? If the product can't be sold then the design team should be fired as should the folks who hired them.

That's a good point MOM.

The thing I find interesting about Ford is that the Focus is the best selling car in the world in it's class. The car manufactured in Germany for the European market is a completely different car than the one made and sold here though.

The European version gets better mileage, has a superior suspension system, better design amd overall, it is a better car. The European version is also available in Mexico. The car availabe in Sweden when it was first introduced even had a flex fuel engine standard. If you want a flex-fuel car in this country, you're going to pay twice as much.

With people waiting for 6 months to a year to get a Prius, there clearly is a demand for alternatives in vehicles.

What's sad is that Ford has the ability and the technology to build a better car but they've made a decision not to. Clearly, the decision to close plants and lay off people is about a lot more than slumping sales.

Mom,
You are marketing yourself to companies, not the general public (hopefully). If the product the company sells doesn't sell, then the folks who hired the "design team" whatever that means, as well as everyone else is SOL. No more job, saavy?
It's called the Free Market System of economics, and drives people like Doug nuts because it's UNFAIR!!!
But it's reality.

Doug said:

"What's sad is that Ford has the ability and the technology to build a better car but they've made a decision not to. Clearly, the decision to close plants and lay off people is about a lot more than slumping sales."

Perhaps thhis question and answer has something to do with it:

http://www.mises.org/story/2124

Yes, the example is General Motors, but as the article states, "The answer, of course, applies to Ford and Chrysler, as well as to General Motors. I've singled out General Motors because it's still the largest of the three and its problems are the most pronounced."

how to anal sex anal adventure

how to anal sex anal adventure

guys bang latin girls naked latin teens