It's called "pacifism," Chachi. These dudes don't believe in the use of force even, apparently, in self-defense. You and Angryclown may think they're loony, but do you think they should go back on their principles to thank the soldiers who they believe are in Iraq illegally and whose help they didn't ask for and probably didn't want?

I must say, however, that your whole "I'm a peace-loving Christian" pose brought tears to my eyes. You know, the laughter kind of tears. Geez, clown makeup isn't free ya know!

Well, sorry about the makeup. But you'll note that I said just peace.

Hussein's peace, like Giap's and Pol Pot's and Tito's and Stalin's, was hardly just.

It's a distinction lost on CPT (and, it would seem, AC), but it's the absolute truth. I've studied to much military history NOT to vastly prefer peace.

A lot of people have to fight and die so that others can have the luxury of pacifism.
Pacifism is a laudable concept in theory, but is morally bankrupt in practice.
Where were these missionaries when Saddam was butchering his own people? Probably protesting our efforts to free Kosovo.
And no, I wouldn't expect effusive praise from them for soldiers they believe to be fighting an illegal war, but something along the lines of "While we disagree with the war and the presence of coalition troops in Iraq, we do want to express our deep appreciate to the individual men and women who risked their lives to save our comrades," would have been spiffy.
Gratitude, if memory serves, is a Christian value as well.

Er, that would be "deep appreciation" in English.

Terry Treadwell went to live among the bears in Alaska and video taped his life there. Ultimately, he video taped his death when he was killed by a bear.

His tapes have been assembled into a documentary, Grizzly Man, which makes painfully clear that he was deluded. The bears gave consistent and obvious warning signs that Mr. Treadwell didn't see.

I see a lot of Terry Treadwell in these people.

Ah yes, a *just* peace. That's the loophole that lets you right-wing kooks invade countries that pose no imminent threat to anyone. Kinda like how you go on about protecting *innocent* life.

It must be disorienting for you to think about people who actually have principles and stick to them in the face of grave danger, however misguided you or Angryclown may consider their actions.

Max observed: "Ultimately, he video taped his death when he was killed by a bear.
His tapes have been assembled into a documentary, Grizzly Man..."

Shoulda been called "Grisly Man."

Be interesting to find out exactly what kind of rescue mission this was.

What is the chance that this was not a military rescue and that the hostages were released "because they weren't Americans"?

That scenario would have some PR damage/value.

I tend to view most of these first reports with some healthy skepticism.

"That's the loophole that lets you right-wing kooks invade countries that pose no imminent threat to anyone"
When did we do that? You would think something like that would have made the papers.

AngryClown,

Here's something that may be disorienting to a good number of you leftists: a good number of we conservatives do not admire abiding by stupid or otherwise indefensible principles no matter how sincerely those principles are held.

I, for one, admire inconsistent capitalists far more than I admire any kind of Marxist...and I have no admiration whatsoever for pacifists. In my opinion, what is called "pacifism" is such a gross defect that it overshadows whatever other virtues, which are usually measly, pacifists possess. That I treat pacifists civilly is nothing more than a consequence of my personal decency and generosity. I do not hate the sinners, but I hate the sin with a passion that is almost absolute in its frigidity and rigidity.

"countries that pose no imminent threat to anyone. Kinda like how you go on about protecting *innocent* life. "

Hundreds of Israelis, killed by suicide bombers who were paid by Hussein, scream "bullschvitz" from the grave. And from the vast plastic shredder in the sky, they are joined by stu knows how many Iraqis.

No threat to anyone. Hm.

"It must be disorienting for you to think about people who actually have principles and stick to them in the face of grave danger, however misguided you or Angryclown may consider their actions."

Like George W. Bush?

Oh, I'm sorry. I know what you mean. By all means, people are welcome to their principles. It's just that ignoring the people who rescued your people isn't a principal that I, a Christian, recognize as being anything Christ talked about.

An Angryclown observation: "It must be disorienting for you to think about people who actually have principles and stick to them in the face of grave danger, however misguided you or Angryclown may consider their actions."

We have been watching George Bush do this for four years now. Who is disoriented? CPT good, GWB bad?

Well he did say something about turning the other cheek, if I recall. I'm not aware of too many episodes in which the Savior kicked himself some Roman ass.

Of course Angryclown doesn't go in much for that pansy pacifist stuff, but at least he doesn't go pretending to be a big Jesus freak, either, in contrast to you insufferable wingnuts.

Angryclown calls ME an insufferable Jesus freak after reading the CPT's statement?

Yes, I'm pissed at the CPT, but it doesn't matter too much today. Ten cheers for the US military and another ten for all of you who prayed since Thanksgiving weekend. My family and I give you thanks.

Three cheers for you yanks and all, but it's likely (since the lone Yank among the hostages was murdered, poor sod) that it was the Brits who were point on this job.

Nah, Mitch, I don't mean you specifically. I don't think you're actually that much into the Jesus thing. I figure you just throw a Christianity ref on the blog every couple months so they don't revoke your right-wing membership card.

"I don't think you're actually that much into the Jesus thing."

I certainly am.

" I figure you just throw a Christianity ref on the blog every couple months so they don't revoke your right-wing membership card."

No. Although I do need to buy another gun to stay current.

"I figure you just throw a Christianity ref on the blog every couple months so they don't revoke your right-wing membership card."

He's got you there, Mitch. Ever seen that footage of Wolfowitz frog-marched down to the river for a forced baptism? It's on YouTube somewhere; I'll look for the link.

Jews get a pass, silly! Of course they're Hell-bound, but you gotta have 'em around to trigger the Apocalypse.

By the way, when you get raptured, can I have your stuff?

How odd. I was under the impression that I was agnostic. So now that I have been diagnosed by angryclown, do I have to start getting up early on Sunday? How about this coming holiday? Do I get good friday off of work? What sort of Jesus freak would I be? I want to be the kind that gets the most holiday days off. I fully support Israel also, yet have no belief in Hell. Man sometimes stereotyping really sucks. And here I am, charter member of the VRWC.

Angry,

I've got dibbs on Mitch's laptop.

"I'm not aware of too many episodes in which the Savior kicked himself some Roman ass". He never did that at all. The only violent act He committed, according to the Gospels, is that He whipped the money changers in the temple for defiling the house of God.
He also praised a Roman Centurion (Luke 7:1-10) as having a greater faith than any in Israel, which certainly implies that even a Centurion can be justified in the eyes of God.
The problem with the Christian pacifists that make it into the newspapers is that they aren't really pacifists, they are instead moral posturers. Where were these people when Saddam was butchering the Kurds & Shi'ites? Where were they when Saddam occupied and looted Kuwait?

" Where were these people when Saddam was butchering the Kurds & Shi'ites? "

Queueing up to serve as human shields.

Buzz, welcome to the fold. You don't get Good Friday off, but we have an excellent retirement plan. As for Sunday, that's optional. Many houses of worship have multiple services over the course of the week. Technically, you aren't even obligated, but it does help the overall experience.

Angryclown sputtered "Jews get a pass, silly! Of course they're Hell-bound, but you gotta have 'em around to trigger the Apocalypse."

There is no proof that Jews are "Hell bound". Or clowns. It's a matter of choice.

Sure Kerm, if they're the kind of Jews who accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior, no problem!

Mitch, I have a little suggestion that has proven valuable for life in general, not just blogging:

Always avoid argument with anyone who insists on referring to him/her/itself in the third person.

Wait, so which personality was that, Pete or Alois?

I'm guessing you're a Minnesota guy named Pete, but that in times of stress you become Alois, an Alsatian watchmaker/serial killer.

Your Angryclownness,

You're wrong about the Minnesota part (I'm from Wisconsin), but the rest of what you said is just spot on.

As a Christian, Abdul Rahman exhibits more bravery and grace than the whole of CPT -- and would undoubtedly be thankful to all who help in his release.

http://www.freedomszone.com/archives/2006/03/saving_the_life.php

"Queueing up to serve as human shields."

Yes, and Saddam intended to assign them to shield military installations.

Angryclowness. Heh.
AC, on the subject of final destination I like a quote from one of your absolute favorite people in the whole wide world, (then governor) George W. Bush. When asked by a smart-ass reporter whether he thought only Christians were going to Heaven, Governor Bush replied "Last time I checked that was up to God, not the Governor of Texas."
So I don't doubt there will be plenty of Jews in Heaven. I think God will judge everyone on their hearts and souls.
There may even be room for clowns. Who knows?

"It is easier for twenty clowns to emerge from a single car, than for an angry jester to enter into the kingdom of God." (Bozo 19:24)

"Yea, verily, one is coming who's large floppy shoe straps I am not worthy to loose". Wingnut 1; 2-3

"Just as Ronald McDonald was lifted up in the corporate wilderness, so His Angryclownness shall also be lifted up." Asshat 12:31