It's the oldest interrogation trick in the book (at least, among the books I've read); have one questioner come on strong and intransigent, threatening all manner of ugly consequences for not spilling.
Then, have the other interrogator - sympathetic, concerned, almost conciliatory - come in. The subject - who, unless trained to recognize interrogation patterns, is looking for any way out of his/her current jam - latches onto the faux friendliness - and, bit by bit, spills what the interrogators need.
Rarely do you see the same person playing both roles.
Like Bin Laden did with the "tape" yesterday. The tape isn't aimed at the beheaders, bus-bombers and plane-crashers; it's aimed at his other natural market, the Western left; appeal to their prejudices (didja know Al Quaeda's winning in Iraq? It's true! Bin Laden said so!) and wishes (for the troops to be home - or, in many cases, for Bush to get a bloody nose whatever happens to the troops).
So how did it work?
Well, among leftyblogs, probably about as one might predict. I took a swing through some prominent ones, and a few others that crossed my path.
Full-time Soros mouthpiece Duncan "Atrios" Black is always a good diving board into the fever swamp. Yesterday, he responded to Scott McClellan:
The terrorists started this war, and the President made it clear that we will end it at a time and place of our choosing.I'll leave aside for a moment that Black's entire oeuvre is the out-of-context snark, and answer; "Um, because the fight is only over when the last swing is taken; as long as terrorist roam the Middle East, that swing is still hanging out there". Um.I had no idea we got to choose when it was over. Um, why not now?
A blog called "Maine Democrats" - presumably like Minnesota Democrats, only reeking more of crab than booya - exhumes a classic lefty warhorse:
He’s back and warning of a new US attack, but also offering a truce if we will stop fighting Muslims on Muslim land. Remember when we were trying to catch Bin Laden?On May 4, Donald Eugene Webb will have been on the FBI's "Top Ten Most Wanted" list for a quarter-century for killing a cop. 25 years on the lam in a nation that is fundamentally hostile to cop-killers; a quarter-century on his own against the FBI, one of the world's largest and most proficient police forces. And yet he's free - or, as "Maine Democrat" might snark, "Do you remember when we were trying to find Donald Eugene Webb?". Never mind that Bin Laden, with his quarter century of experience in the chamelonic world of the international terrorist, is hiding in foreign lands among many people who are fundamentally disposed toward helping him...
...sorry. I just realized I was trying to reason with one of those people. I apologize for the digression.
I won't make that mistake with Glenn Greenwald at Crooks and Liars, who sees a conspiracy:
Crying WolfSo...let me get this straight; the government (and media!) are unclear on the status and health of someone whose life depends on, ahem, keeping us unclear on his status and health?Each time a new videotape from Osama bin Laden emerges, as one did yesterday, it ends up embarrassing the Bush Administration because the Administration has adopted a tactic of planting stories in the media that bin Laden is dead, which are then conclusively disproven each time a new tape appears. Every since 9/11, the Administration has repeatedly whipped up speculation that Osama bin Laden is dead in order to induce the public into becoming distracted (and scared) by the Evil Ones, and to give the appearance that Commander-in-Chief George Bush is protecting us all by slaying the Big Bad Wolf.
How many times have we heard the Administration or its close allies plant stories in the media indicating or strongly implying that bin Laden is dead - only for the stories to be proven entirely false? Let us count Michael Ledeen, National Review, January 9, 2006
And, according to Iranians I trust, Osama bin Laden finally departed this world in mid-December. The al Qaeda leader died of kidney failure and was buried in Iran, where he had spent most of his time since the destruction of al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
And Michael Ledeen had a theory that didn't pan out. Hm. Damned Halliburton again.
Dave Johnson of "Seeing the Forest" has his priorities straight:
Chris Matthews compares Michael Moore to Osama Bin Laden!Er, Dave? Bin Laden wasn't suggesting anything that Moore, Streisand, Soros, or Woody Freaking Harrelson haven't said already. Criminy - read what Atrios wrote!DEMAND AN APOLOGY!,
on Hardball, Chris Matthews just blurted out that Bin Laden sounds like Michael Moore. Simple: Matthews should apologize. On the air. This has NOTHING to do with Michael Moore and everything to do with how far media figures can go slandering the left. And last I checked, Michael Moore didn't massacre thousands of innocent Americans...Don't let Matthews get away with this!
Of course, some abjure even the facade of reason, preferring the ever-popular "illogical digression". Vide the always-comical Ollie Willis:
Feel Safe?What? The President should stop what he's doing every time a tape claiming to be from Bin Laden moves on Al Jazeera? Maybe with a theatrical tear of concern, a la Clinton?
by Oliver WillisFor 74 minutes America knew Osama Bin Laden had issued another threat to America. The President did not.
As to the "Feel Safe?" Snark (admittedly no dumber than most of Willis' context-free snarks - but no better, either. In fact, exactly the same. Willis seems to have written a crude script that automatically generates posts titled "Feel [insert adjective]?" or "Why Does Bush Hate [something that it'd be ironic if he actually hated]?", followed by some context-devoid factoid, almost like an online game of, ironically, Mad Libs
...where was I? Oh, yeah, feeling Safe. Last I checked, tapes don't kill people; people do.
The people, for instance, that our President sent to the Middle East to kill the people who want to kill, er, you, Ollie.
Probably the best summation of the left's reaction (and, indeed, current intellectual state) is summed up in this A O Hell group:
Help Nancy Pelosi hold Bush Accountable!Kinda sums it up, dinnit?
Thursday, January 19, 2006Make America Safe and Catch Bin Laden by impeaching GW BUSH CORP NOW!
Reality of the terror here in the USA. GH Bush, a leader of "The Carlyle Group" allegedely met with Bin Ladens' brother on the eve of 911. His Grandfather, a geologist, discovered the Saudi Oil Fields. A fast and long friendship with the Saudi Royal Family was formed, in fact the Royal family has been propped by the USA ever since. When all US air space was closed immediately after 911, GW ordered all Royal family members flown safely home. Bin Laden is a family member and despite our satellite capability to find a pissant in a sewer Bin Laden hasn't been caught. How convenient to have a continuing threat to our country so Bush can enact things like Patriot Acts, push to use military on US soil, and even worse to get preauthorized use of martial law in the next emergency!. What makes this really scary were the comments made about postphoning the last election due to the terror threat!! Is it POSSIBLE that when the next event occurs Gone Wrong will suggest or order all of the above and acheive his dream of dictatorship?!. With no third term possible it seems the plot many have surmised that I never would have believed until recently is emerging. What is extremely suspicious is Bin Laden quoting recent polls. Surely his partner in political terror (Gone Wrong), will use that statement in his next speach to say we are emboldening the Bush family friend terrorist to threaten us.??? Bush will seize on that to criticize dissent as he always has. I wonder if after the next attack if the list of ignored warnings will exceed the 28 that preceeded 911. Now as the public demands impeachment and withdrawal from Iraq, Bin Laden threatens US attacks? This is counter to his stated goals! Bin Laden emerges with a new message to urge impossible negotiations lest he strike again! All while giving Bush fodder to fuel his criticism of Bush opponents!. The best way to eliminate the terror threat is to outlaw the Carlyle Group, put all Haleyburton Contracts up for public bids per Federal Law, Impeach Bush and Cheney, Also Rumsfeld and Rice. Then have all contracts for preferred production agreements of Iraqi Oil given by Bush to his oil Buddies declared null and void. Then turn Iraq over to Nato and the UN. Let the oil pay to rebuild Iraq and policing Iraq, as Bush promised on the eve of His Falsely Justified Oil and Haleyburton Profit, Deficit Creating War!. Bin Laden at large is a farce! He will not be caught with Bush in office. He is the fear that is supposed to make us support the most obvious plotter of unraveling the Constitution and American freedom since Hitler. Make America Safer? Impeach Bush before he uses his Saudi Family Friend Terrorist to justify taking your freedom. Then find and arrest Bin Laden and make him squeal if he was really working for Bush Corp. all along. Truth is stranger than fiction. Bush and Bin laden seem even stranger than truth! ImpeachGoneWrong <-- Click link to join this AOL group! If you would like to see the electoral college eliminated along with electronic voting machines like Diebold's while mandating paper ballots that are verifiable and are opposed to giving a dictator enabling line item Veto to the President unlike the group with a similar name, pls click this link to another AOLGroup--->Main Page Voter's Reform Party . If you would like to see an AOL journal with similar articles, links to over 3000 anti bush and reform sites, AND to Government representaves sites, then click this link---->Help Nancy Pelosi hold Bush Accountable! Please feel free to copy and paste this article to ANYONE, ESPECIALLY TO THE WHITE HOUSE EMAIL and YOUR REPS IN CONGRESS, and to NSA. Hopefully NSA IS following my suggestion to spy on the crooks in office, and not PATRIOTIC opponents OF BUSH. JEFFERSON WROTE THAT DISSENT IS THE ULTIMATE EXPRESSION OF PATRIOTISM! It is disrespectful to the office of the presidency not to criticise someone who should not be in that office! America can regain respect abroad and at home by impeachment! WE THE PEOPLE MUST DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN, AND DOMESTIC!
Cassette tapes cost what - a buck?
Best buck Bin Laden ever spent, huh?
Posted by Mitch at January 20, 2006 12:09 PM | TrackBack
Looks like PB is an AOL member.
Posted by: Jodi at January 20, 2006 11:56 AMDon't know what my membership has to do with this post, are you looking to stalk someone Jodi?
As for fascism, contrast this piece of BS from Mitch (btw Mitch, Bin Laden's message was aimed at ANYONE who he thinks doesn't have a tin ear- as I understand that includes a fair few isolationist conservatives who fully question wth we're doing in Iraq when Bin Laden is in Afghanistan/Pakistan) - anyway, contast Mitch's "take no prisoners"/admit no faults and engage in no real discourse approach with that of Auntie Pinko from DU..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/auntie/06/207.html
Her/his point, gun control really isn't a polemic, except to those who WANT it to be (aka folks like Mitch and his sychophants). Mitch doesn't enjoy or elicit real engagement, he responds (as do most of his readers) with insults, but hey! you keep on calling the others extremists while blaming everyone but yourself for all of your problems.
PB
Posted by: pb at January 20, 2006 12:12 PM"Mitch doesn't enjoy or elicit real engagement, he responds"
PB, that's about the most nonsensical thing you've ever written, and that's saying a LOT.
By having a comment engine, Mitch is eliciting. By responding to comments, Mitch is engaging. And by the point-by-point dissection of your novellas, Mitch clearly enjoys it.
And even though I know you'll never do it (and conjure countless bad excuses for not doing so), you yourself could even create your very own blog and elicit, engage and enjoy your own unique content, rather than perpetually whining about what other people have to say.
Posted by: Ryan at January 20, 2006 01:10 PMOh, my, Peeb. Someone needs his
"As for fascism, contrast this piece of BS from Mitch (btw Mitch, Bin Laden's message was aimed at ANYONE who he thinks doesn't have a tin ear- as I understand that includes a fair few isolationist conservatives who fully question wth we're doing in Iraq when Bin Laden is in Afghanistan/Pakistan)"
Peeb, you call my point "BS" - dumb, but certainly your privilege - while citing outliers among conservatives (why not roll out David Duke or Pat Robertson, criminy), and then citing NOTHING that would make it so.
Bin Laden's message was just like his message before the election; written in terms that mirror in most particulars the language, usage, and even contemporaneous spin of the left. Even Chris Matthews - no conservative, he - said it sounded like Michael Moore, for crying out loud!
You can say it's anything you want; you're whistling in the dark (or talking out your sleeve, more accurately).
"anyway, contast Mitch's "take no prisoners"/admit no faults and engage in no real discourse approach with that of Auntie Pinko from DU.."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You cite stuff from DU! OMG - that's friggin priceless! A fever swamp hate site not much better than Panzerfaust Records!
Peeb. Dude. You just confirmed a whole lot of stereotypes.
Oh, yeah - and I am fine with discourse; they just have to not be talking out their butts.
"Her/his point, gun control really isn't a polemic,"
INIGO MONTOYA: "I don't think that word means what you think it means".
" except to those who WANT it to be (aka folks like Mitch and his sychophants)."
I have sycophants? Who knew?
" Mitch doesn't enjoy or elicit real engagement, he responds (as do most of his readers) with insults,"
Oh, cry me a river, Peeb. Quit taking yourself so gawdawful seriously. I have NEVER insulted you on this site. Not once. Oh, you've interpreted things with great license; I toss barbs, I rib, I prod, I jibe, but I rarely insult, and given that I *know* you I can say with complete honesty that I don't recall a single thing I've written that was ever intended as such. You can not say the same thing, of course; while you apologized, in your own way, for calling me a "chickenhawk", your overall outlook seems pretty clear.
I mean, f*ck a duck, Peeb, I'm a busy guy; if I really "didn't want engagement", it'd be a lot easier to just ban you and everyone I disagree with from my comment section (as do a lot of leftyblogs, btw).
" but hey! you keep on calling the others extremists while blaming everyone but yourself for all of your problems."
Um...what?
Here's the deal, Peeb; you keep making these huge, sweeping claims. I keep saying "Show me". And you *never, ever* do.
What problems, Peeb? What blame?
Or are you just running off again?
Posted by: mitch at January 20, 2006 01:12 PMOh, yeah - as re Ant Pinko's point?
Pffft.
Check the national platforms for the Democrats from the mid-sixties through today; they consistently called for gun control. Look at the Minnesota DFL platform - it calls for gun control:
http://www.snowbizz.com/HWRepublican/dfl_Platform.htm
"But Wait!", you'll no doubt say - "They call for reasonable controls for public safety!". Right, but they've never proposed a "reasonable control", they've stuck with gutting the rights of the law-abiding in every case. I've documented in vast detail the Dems' and DFLs' hypocrisies on this issue.
Do some liberals support gun rights? Sure. "Armed Liberal" is an excellent blog, actually. But if you or Ant Flo wanna call them anything but lonely outliers among the left, you're really going to have to do a great job of showing me how.
As usual, Peeb, I'm all about discussion. Just don't expect me to lie down and let anyone spew long-debunked BS without calling them on it.
Posted by: mitch at January 20, 2006 01:28 PM"Mitch's "take no prisoners..."/"
Brit Lt. Colonel John Frost, commander of a Brit airborne battalion, cut off and surrounded by Germans at the Niewebrucke at Arnhem, after days of relentless poundeing and ghastly casualties, approached by the Germans about surrender:
FROST: "I'm afraid I haven't the facilities to accept your surrender".
That's me. Take no prisoners!
Posted by: Mitch at January 20, 2006 01:53 PMMitch! Can I be a sycophant? Do we like, get a t-shirt or something? Yeah, print N.A.R.N. on the back and SYCOPHANT accross the left breast.
Posted by: Kermit at January 20, 2006 01:54 PMThe AOL post was kick -- So is the GWOT over when we catch or kill Bin Laden, or is it over when we eliminate the economic oppression that is the "root cause" of terrorism?
Posted by: Terry at January 20, 2006 06:44 PMYou'd think that these activists would be smart enough to know that they have to control both houses of congress before they can impeach. The AOL post is an example of moral vanity at its . . . what? finest?
PB,
Posted by: chriss at January 22, 2006 01:49 AMWhy are we in Iraq when UBL is in Af/Pak? (Hey that rhymes!)
Let me 'splain: UBL is a tumor. He must be removed surgically. Since he is unwilling/unable to show his face on video, we have probably gotten very close to doing so.
Islamofacism is the cancer. The operation in Iraq is part of the chemotherapy (as is removal of Libyan WMD, as is Syrian withdrawal form Lebanon, as is continued pressure on Saudi Arabia, etc. etc. etc.).
UBL is the biggest tumor, but the disease has spread beyond him. Removing him is important, but won't cure the cancer in and of itself.
It shouldn't be that hard to figure out, but the "Bush is so dumb he thinks Iraq was behind 9/11 and attacked Iraq just for oil when UBL is in Afghanistan which we didn't want to attack because of that whole Afghan winter thing and plus we once sold a gun to UBL..." crowd just refuses to get a clue.
PB said: "Mitch doesn't enjoy or elicit real engagement, he responds (as do most of his readers) with insults."
My above comments can be considered engagement.
You bonehead ;)