I would have to say Mitch that things are better on the North Dakota side of the river concerning the issue of our rights as dads. The courts seem to be much more sensitive to the fact that dads are just as important as moms in raising our children.

This at least has been my case.

The problem however is that the divorced moms while they may see the importance in having a dad in the picture for their children, they do not think that their ex-spouse is the one that should have that distinction.

Both you and I grew up with parents that loved us, and parents we loved. What a shame that our children will not that same, as you put it, "Beaver Cleaver" environment. It made for a good childhood.

I have come to believe during the past 5 years of divorce, and as a father of 5 children, that fathers rights to women(mothers) is an issue of control, not an issue of what children need.

Really, could it be that deep down inside the soul of a woman there is a fear of not being in control of their life, and the issue is not really about fathers or mothers. Perhaps it is really an issue of "I"

Selflessness is a bitch sometimes, and most often difficult to practice. But in the case of our children, all children, it should be practiced.

It leaves me to wonder, just who is the weaker sex?

I would have to say Mitch that things are better on the North Dakota side of the river concerning the issue of our rights as dads. The courts seem to be much more sensitive to the fact that dads are just as important as moms in raising our children.

This at least has been my case.

The problem however is that the divorced moms while they may see the importance in having a dad in the picture for their children, they do not think that their ex-spouse is the one that should have that distinction.

Both you and I grew up with parents that loved us, and parents we loved. What a shame that our children will not that same, as you put it, "Beaver Cleaver" environment. It made for a good childhood.

I have come to believe during the past 5 years of divorce, and as a father of 5 children, that fathers rights to women(mothers) is an issue of control, not an issue of what children need.

Really, could it be that deep down inside the soul of a woman there is a fear of not being in control of their life, and the issue is not really about fathers or mothers. Perhaps it is really an issue of "I"

Selflessness is a bitch sometimes, and most often difficult to practice. But in the case of our children, all children, it should be practiced.

It leaves me to wonder, just who is the weaker sex?

One sees where they got the idea though. Our media celebrate terrorism as a validation of moral passion. What the Brit dads didn't get is that not everyone is allowed to play that card under the current rules.

No kidding. When that scandalous ho doctor hid her daughter from the father, who had won custody in court (which must mean that she was DESPRATELY unfit, to lose an up-and-down court case like that), the media treated the pig like a hero.

Chris!

I was jazzed to finally figure out you're *that* Chris from Fargo...and of course, buzzkilled to read about your domestic situation. (Note to onlookers: Chris and I and his (now I know) ex-wife go back to elementary school). Thanks, sincerely, for the thoroughly undeserved complements! I'm always delighted to hear from people from JHS; there's a little group of us that I've reconnected with via th\is blog over the past few years, and I'm glad you're one of 'em.

I think there is an aspect of control to the issue - which is ironic, given the absolute control women have in the system. That so many institutions capitalize on it is a shame, and a huge part of the problem.

It's a pretty common topic on this blog. More's the pity. Stay tuned, though.

I'll email you. And thanks for reading.

Great synopsis of the "fathers' rights movements". The meetings of these different groups are typically facilitated by a fair-minded attorney, who counsels a dozen or so fathers per meeting. These fathers are sometimes accompanied by their new wives or partners, and everyone wears a look on their face like they are being fed a plate of dog crap, which in a sense they are. We now look back on the era of slavery, when children were routinely separated from their parents with shame and horror. Today's family court system accompliishes the same separations on a daily basis, and few bat an eye. The supposed equality of the sexes, as proclaimed by feminists, apparently ends where children and parenting rights and responsibities begin. The Aid To Families With Dependent Children program, which began as a safety net for wartime widows, has become another agent favoring collapse of the traditional family structure. Fatherlessness is often encouraged by government intercession in private lives and families, both through the actions of the family court system and social programs like AFDC. In the past, men and women were perhaps more likely to not only stay together to raise children, but to share in both the rights and responsibilities of parenting should they split up. There were probably always a certain number of men who abandoned their families, but those who did not might have both given and received greater cooperation with their ex-spouses, as both would stand to gain from such cooperation. A woman who needs her ex-husband to volunteer financial support is much more likely to provide access to a child for visitation. With the government offering financial support to (mostly) women, funded by forced support obligations for the fathers who do not enjoy guaranteed visitation, our current situation has developed. Unseen in human history as I understand it, great numbers of our children are living without both natural parents in their homes, while the amount of unpaid child support skyrockets. I consider this issue very important, and yet it receives relatively little attention. While attending the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington D.C. a few years back, I sat in amazement as a representative from a prominent Fathers' rights group was forced to speak hurriedly for only a few minutes between formal presentations. Apparently the issue wasn't considered important enough to warrant a formal session on its own merit, so the speaker was forced to speak as "filler", while attendees of the conference left and entered the auditorium for the next presentation. No one paid her much heed. At the next session, however, Oliver North got a rousing response from the crowd by castigating "dead-beat dads" yet another time. I sadly reported his remarks to the members of the Fathers' Rights group, who were manning their little booth in the hallway outside the auditorium. Although their group was one of the sponsoring organizations for the CPAC convention Colonel North, a keynote speaker, had just drowned out their message with an opposite one. On the local scene we have the Star Tribune, who declined to print a guest op-ed I submitted on these issues, while maintaining a steady stream of musings from Syl Jones. Thanks for putting this in the public square where it belongs and keeping it there, Mitch.

Michael,

You ain't seen nothing yet.

I understand that government contributes to the problem, but I am not sure that there's a government solution.

This is not offered as a critique of any individual, but when there's a breakdown in a family, no solution is going to be ideal. I understand that government has an interest in settling such disputes, but I don't hold any expectation that the government can really handle divorce and custody issues in a just and fair manner. Any system is going to be gamed by at least some of the individuals involved.

Fathers for Justice is looking for justice in a place where justice can't really exist. The system is not really choosing between good and bad. It's choosing between "bad" and "worse." Perhaps "better" is possible. But good is up to the individuals involved and can never be imposed.

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