I've always found Atheism amusing. They define themselves by something they don't beleive in. Kind of like calling yourself a non-smoker.

By all means those who assaulted this man should do a very long stretch in a very small room. There is some irony, however, in having someone who advocates the assault of those with whom he disagrees being assaulted himself.

Yeah, why is it that only *conservatives* are eligible to create "climates of hate" that draw the weak-minded to strike out?

Why, oh why?

"Change the names and subjects, and you'd swear you were on an Al Quaeda or Klan site." Of course, the Christian sites aren't exactly a love-thy-neighborfest either. One trip to FreeRepublic shows that: "The liberals are just sitting back and laughing. Maybe they toss a few faggots on the fire periodically to keep it going. But this will tear apart conservatism. Why should the liberals get involved?" And on a separate message thread I found this nugget about same-sex marriage in South Africa: "It's good to see how well South Africa is doing, now that blacks are in full control of their destiny...That's okay with me, so long as they have full ownership of the consequences and don't look to evil white devils to bail their sorry asses out of their problems..Semper Fi" Each side of the 'culture war' is filled with bile. I'm not disagreeing with you, just filling in the whole picture.

I find it pretty telling that Mitch once again apologizes for the intollerance of the right.

This guys EMAIL was offensive, so that sorta kinda excuses their conduct?

And after all, there are extremists websites on the left, so it's not like they don't have their own dirty laundry.. maybe they even faked this crime... yeah Mitch, maybe James Earl Ray really was a Black Panther member too.

Even if we agree, and I do, that left extreme blogs are vile, vile writing doesn't excuse vile conduct. You give lip-service to them going to jail while spending most of the time bashing the other side for it's hypocrisy, when you yourself refuse to address or even acknowledge the rampant hypocrisy of the right.

It's hard to take you seriously most days, today being one of them. You could have shown some class by simply decrying this conduct, instead you skirted the edge of excusing it.

PB

"Of course, the Christian sites aren't exactly a love-thy-neighborfest either. "

Duly noted. There are Christians that I wouldn't allow to babysit my kids, to be sure.

Peeb,

"I find it pretty telling that Mitch once again apologizes for the intollerance of the right."

Wrong. I do not.

"This guys EMAIL was offensive, so that sorta kinda excuses their conduct?"

Wow. Cram a few more words in my mouth, while you're at it.

"And after all, there are extremists websites on the left,..."

Which I reference in no way.

"maybe they even faked this crime... yeah Mitch, maybe James Earl Ray really was a Black Panther member too."

Did you read the post I linked, Peeb? A long list of people who faked hate crimes against themselves?

All by way of saying that I'd wait for proof? Because there's an emerging pattern of people trying to game the hate-crime system, evidence of which I provided (as opposed to your absurd, logically fallacious James Earl Ray bit)?

"Even if we agree, and I do, that left extreme blogs are vile, vile writing doesn't excuse vile conduct. You give lip-service to them going to jail"

Again, you're inferring based on no evidence - another logical fallacy. I stated that I hope that, if caught, the perps get the book thrown at them. That's lip service? And what else do I need to say? Call for their ritual castration, too?

" while spending most of the time bashing the other side for it's hypocrisy,"

Untrue. I pointed out that I personally find the discourse of many atheists to be depressing. Says nothing about hypocrisy. As to the bit about the fake hate crimes, that has nothing to do with hypocrisy - it's about gaming the criminal justice system, a reprehensible act no matter who does it.

" when you yourself refuse to address or even acknowledge the rampant hypocrisy of the right."

How is the right being hypocritical (rampantly or otherwise) in this story?

"It's hard to take you seriously most days,"

Then don't. Because with comments like this...

"You could have shown some class by simply decrying this conduct, instead you skirted the edge of excusing it."

...I damn sure return the favor! What crap, Peeb. Waiting for an actual trial and verdict is not "excusing" anything.

You DO know that, right?

I've traced the roots of the fake hate crime phenomenon and it appears to lead right to an alleged attack on Ultra-conservative icon and hero, Morton Downey Junior.

I'm sure you all remember him... he was the chain smoking, liberal bashing, Reagan loving symbol of emerging American Conservativism in the 80's.

Althought Mort has left us, his spirit is alive and well and can be found at any given hour at 1500 AM, 1280 AM and right here at Mitch's blog through posters like... well, you know who you are...

"I've always found Atheism amusing. They define themselves by something they don't beleive in. Kind of like calling yourself a non-smoker."

What a witless analogy, Kermit.
You only define yourself as a non-smoker IN RELATION to the idiots who smoke. Otherwise it doesn't trouble us at all.

Who exactly emulates the spirit of Morton Downey Junior? Who on AM 1500? Who on the Patriot? Who here at Shot in the Dark?

As a young college kid I watched Mort's show often and got a kick out of it... probably in the same way folks get pleasure (guilty or otherwise) from Springer, Maury Povich, and the like. I can't imagine that would qualify me as someone who's carrying on Mort's spirit.

Mort didn't argue much. He yelled. That was great for what it was, but it wasn't going to get me or anyone else much of a foundation for conservative political philosphy.

I you *think* it does, you're talking about the wrong set of folks. If you can't tell the difference between Morton Downey Junior and Rush, Prager, Soucheray, Bob Davis, Mitch, or former KSTP host Jason Lewis then you're judgement is to be questioned when discussing conservatives, the Republican party, and issues on the Right.

Not dismissed, but questioned.

I ought to run my posts through spellcheck in Word first... damn. ;)

Hey Badda: zip it, pinhead!

AC:

Get outta here, pablum-puker!

Doug,

"I've traced the roots of the fake hate crime phenomenon and it appears to lead right to an alleged attack on Ultra-conservative icon and hero, Morton Downey Junior."

First; You've "traced" nothing. Please show us, right now and with no further prevarication, exactly where any of the long list of perps of faked hate crimes paid any homage to Downey. Now.

A much better comparison: the Tawanna Brawley incident.

And, by the way, the post-Limbaugh world of conservative talk radio owes almost nothing to Downey's legacy. Downey was an artifact of the "Fairness Doctrine"; conservatism was a prop in his act, not the reason he went on the air. He actually shares a lot more with Jerry Springer than with anything in conservative talk radio today.

"I'm sure you all remember him... he was the chain smoking, liberal bashing, Reagan loving symbol of emerging American Conservativism in the 80's."

Actually, except for a few years as a novelty TV host, Downey was pretty much over by the mid-eigties. His influence as a radio host was waning fast, and pretty much ended with the Fairness Doctrine's repeal.

"Althought Mort has left us, his spirit is alive and well and can be found at any given hour at 1500 AM, 1280 AM and right here at Mitch's blog through posters like... well, you know who you are..."

Doug, just keep talking about talk radio and its precedents. It'll be fun dismantling every single point you try to make, piece by piece. You clearly know nearly nothing about it.

AC,
"Zip it, pinhead"?!?!?!

Archie Bunker just called for you, pallie. He says he wants his witty retorts back.
;)

Mitch,

In all candor, your posts are so totally lacking in intellectual value - not that you are, but that you fail to use it - I simply will not engage in on-going debates with you. Whether you agree or not, your post did in fact attempt to excuse this conduct, at least to a degree, because of contemptible conduct on the left.

For example:

And after all, there are extremists websites on the left,..."

Which I reference in no way.

Really, hmmm.. what was that last paragraph?

Mitch: "The depressing part? Reading the rank, naked bigotry oozing between (and within) the lines of the comments sections of some of the prominent atheist-leaning blogs who've written on the subject. Change the names and subjects, and you'd swear you were on an Al Quaeda or Klan site"

No, no, that's not refering to leftist websites, that AETHEIST websites, and calling them equivilant to Al Qaeda (btw, for someone who bashed me for prose, you may want to spell check Al Qaeda).

You have said repeatedly you won't discuss the weakness of the right because that is what the mainstream media is for, a mainstream media you've advocated tearing down as, for you, the proper course of media is to seek it's own goals. The consequential analysis of that is that you advocate media of total bias (you want to get rid of mainstream) and it should refuse to address anything that doesn't paint (your) its view in the best possible light, even facts that might completely refute your view. This is called preventing free access to information, free exchange of ideas, it's called totalitarianism, it's repulsive, and it's wrong.

The net effect is that you have absolutely zero credibility. Others, Chrisss, Kermit, even Badda, at least can offer some sense of balance, can understand there are two sides. I don't have any interest in wasting more words and space on people so completely intollerant they'd prefer violence to discourse.

Mitch, you've become a useless charicature. You refuse to acknowledge facts and points that are uncomplimentary to your position, while bringing up things like this and attempting to twist them into some sort of indictment of the left. The LEFT didn't beat this guy, a bunch of jerks who were looking for a reason to beat someone up did.

Your words have become nearly incomprehensible in their one-sided stridency. I will continue to poke fun at you for them, but I am distressed that you seem no longer to be able to separate your goals from your "facts."

As for the trial, this is such a strawman it's laughable. I don't believe at any point I said a specific person was guilty. This professor indicated they said they were beating him for his words and his class, sorry but that doesn't seem to really have anything to do with a trial, it's simply that WHOEVER did this, is repulsive, but you spent 90% of your time on bashing leftist sites or fake accusations. So as for crap, you look to be wearing brown. This has become so easy it's boring.

As for putting words in your mouth..hmmm let me see. Peebs believes the only valuable service is that which is in a combat area.. Peeb believes the only deaths that matter are those that occur in combat. Go look in a mirror, you resort to cheap insults (like the wisecrack that "No, you and your wife had kids" implying that I discount my wife's importance, and then complain when you get roughly treated. Grow up and start acting like someone who actually comprehends that it is only by the free exchange of ideas we avoid ignorance and intollerance that leads to this sort of conduct.

PB

Badda, that was my MD Jr. tribute. This is my homage to Archie Bunker, you dumb Polack.

PB,

"Whether you agree or not, your post did in fact attempt to excuse this conduct, at least to a degree, because of contemptible conduct on the left. "

Ah, the old "I'm right and I'm plugging my ears and shouting so I can't hear you" argument.

No, Peeb, bullsh*t, I'm not excusing anything. It is a fiction, woven by you from the whole cloth from your own assumptions and prejudices.

As to your repeated claims of "cheap shots" - you are starting to sound incredibly oversensitive:

"As for putting words in your mouth..hmmm let me see. Peebs believes the only valuable service is that which is in a combat area.."

Er, that was the way you were putting it. It was an impression drawn from your own writing.

" Peeb believes the only deaths that matter are those that occur in combat."

See above.

" Go look in a mirror, you resort to cheap insults (like the wisecrack that "No, you and your wife had kids" implying that I discount my wife's importance,"

And again, P, that's crap. It was a statement of fact; I have two kids and am not married; you have two kids and are married. There is no insult, overt, implied, or discernable by any rational human being who doesn't have an axe to grind.

" and then complain when you get roughly treated."

Bzzzzt. I do not. Oh, I point out the dumber cheap shots, but I have leather for skin, Peeb. I've needed it. Cheap shots on a blog? Pfffft. Who cares.

" Grow up and start acting like someone who actually comprehends that it is only by the free exchange of ideas we avoid ignorance and intollerance that leads to this sort of conduct."

Again, total BS. I'm the one freely exchanging ideas, and allowing (indeed, encouraging) everyone to exchange their own in my comment section.

An aside that I think is germane: online communication doesn't communicate nuance well. I'll admit that there may have been attempts at the occasional humorous jibe that might be perceptible as a "cheap shot". I can honestly say that I've never *knowingly* taken a cheap shot at you, Peeb. I've certainly dug into the substance of some of your claims and statements - it's only fair, right? - but cheap shots, no.

"...your posts are so totally lacking in intellectual value...I simply will not engage in on-going debates with you."

This is at the beginning of a 624-word blog comment. I don't think those words mean what you think they mean, old boy.

By the way, PB - where in my post do I mention "left" or "right"?

I specifically avoided the politics of the principals in my post.

AC,
Well, my comment could even apply to Mort in the day... but I must admit I don't remember him saying pinhead, although now that you mention it I do remember Mort saying zip it.
(Just doing my part to point out the already obvious gaps in my memory.)

Ah, the good old days.

By the way, you should have said I was dead from the neck up.

Now I'm missing Arch, too.

"Please show us, right now and with no further prevarication, exactly where any of the long list of perps of faked hate crimes paid any homage to Downey. Now."

Homage paid to Downey? Strawman Mitch strikes again. Go ahead Mitch. Use your skills to knock that one down.

"Doug, just keep talking about talk radio and its precedents. It'll be fun dismantling every single point you try to make, piece by piece. You clearly know nearly nothing about it."

I actually do but that will have to wait.

What a witless analogy, Kermit.
Posted by Jody Tresidder at December 7, 2005 08:31 AM

Witless!? But I stole it from Gallagher! One of the best satirists of the 21st century. Have you been hanging out with angryclown and his camel?

20th century. But I beleive he lives yet.

"Gallagher! One of the best satirists of the 21st century."

Uh huh... and Carrot Top is the unchallenged king of Commedia dell'arte.

Doug,
You didn't answer my response... way up there.

Yes. Let's all bash the person who was beaten. And let's all defend the criminals, who firmly believe that Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs to Church every Sunday.

When you defend these people, even in a roundabout way, you reduce yourself to their own retarded, intolerant level. You'll never win friends that way, Mitchie-poo.

Well, you'll win a few...but just OTHER retards who think that Adam and Eve rode dinosaurs to Church every Sunday.

Nakeydiddly,

Hard to argue with logic like that.

Because there is none.

Uh huh... and Carrot Top is the unchallenged king of Commedia dell'arte.

Posted by Doug at December 7, 2005 10:08 PM

Watch out, Doug. You wouldn't want me to take my Sledge-O-Matic™ upside your head.

Kermit,
Not having the privilege of being raised in America, I just looked up Gallagher on the intraweb thing.
I am very, very, very, very sorry.

I know Mitch just loves my anecdotes so here's a short little story. A million or so years ago, I used to work for the Carlton Organization. They used to have two entertainment venues, one in Bloomington MN and one in GB Wisconsin. I was head DJ, media director and was assistant to the guy who booked talent for the Green Bay facility.

Gallagher play there and I had the misfortune of meeting and playing errand boy for that prick.

He was, by far the biggest a**hole celebrity I ever met.

On the flipside, I also had the opportunity to meet and work around Rick Nelson who was seriously the nicest and genuine persons I have ever met.

Jodie,
After having Angryclown wish Allah infect me with a camel-borne venereal disease, "witless" is nearly a compliment.

I swear by Allah, if Kermit does not grow a hump and experience pain while urinating, Angryclown will declare jihad!

Don't get your burkha in a bunch, AC.

PB, others are too polite. You're a fecking idiot. You are bitching about things that DO NOT exist in Mitch's post.

STFU. You might learn something.

badda,

1500 - Limbaugh
1280 - Savage
Here - I will refrain from naming names but a short stroll through select threads would answer your question. Pay particular attention to responses to a poster named Teena.

Michael Weiner is a bit unhinged. That's what happens to conservatives living in 'Frisco. All 5 of them.

Doug,

Limbaugh?

LIMBAUGH?

Give me a freaking break. He's about as abrasive and combative as the KARE11 morning show.

His greatest offense against civility is differing from the lefty mainstream.

Which is, of course, the greatest offense against "civility" the American and Minnesota left observes.

"Give me a freaking break. He's about as abrasive and combative as the KARE11 morning show."

Sure Mitch. Whatever you say. I've learned that it doesn't pay to argue with a member of the choir.

Hey, while we're speaking of Limbaugh and I got all you wingnuts in one place... You like him better off the drugs or on? Cause I think he's lost a step or two now that he's off the hillbilly heroin.

Doug:

"I've learned that it doesn't pay to argue with a member of the choir."

I guess stereotyping is a convenient alternative to thought.

AC:

No opinion. I haven't listened to him for more than an hour or two a quarter since long before the ear surgery that led to the addiction. At that time, of course, he was the best in the business, and his numbers showed it.

Speaking of addictions, Vobo - I loved the old Franken/Lanpher website: "Drug Free Radio!". Like, Lanpher is the biggest lush in the media. Yes, even counting your shop.

Fine Mitch. Shall we start with "Dick Turban"?

How about "Cindy Sheehan is dumber that a pensil eraser."

Or how about his latest rant regarding peace activists kidnapped in Iraq...

"I mean, these people are liberals, they're warped. Well, I mean, that's why there's - I'm telling you, folks, there's a part of me that likes this."

Hey... wasn't that a guy from your hometown that was just killed? Of course he wasn't one of them peace activists so it's tragic right?

If they had been peace activists though... now that would have been great wouldn't it.

Here... Let me lower myself so you can see how limbaugh sounds to me and you tell me if I sound abrassive and combative.

You know there's a part of me that likes the fact that Ron Schultz was killed and here's why I like it. I like that a bunch of right wing idiots go trotting around Iraq under the Lieberman influenced delusion that everything is all peachy keen and wind up getting a dose of reality.

How does that sound Mitch. Is is abrassive and combative or is it all in good clean fun? Hey, it's just satire right?

In typical Mitch fashion though, you appologize, rationalize and justify the actions of those on the right .

"I haven't listened to him for more than an hour or two a quarter since long before the ear surgery that led to the addiction."

Ahhhh... It was the surgery to correct the loss of hearing that led to the use of Oxy that caused the loss of hearing that required corrective surgery...

You see, most people would be content to just say, "I haven't listened to him" but no, not Mitch... He goes the extra mile to rationalize Limbaughs drug abuse.

Mitch,

Buy a vowel, get a clue, see if you can borrow one from Doug or Angry if you have to.

When you piss and moan about the text on Aethist websites, what, and you think that they are euphamistically associated with the Left - btw, Kevin, pay attention, you might learn something. When you post that drivel as the closing remark regarding this beating, only shortly after insinuating it might be "all made up", you're looking to either trivialize it, justify it, or excuse it. The only person with fingers in their ears is wearing your clothes, sitting in your chair, and reading through your irises.

You can claim all you want to regarding poking fun, as I said once, as a friend you get forgiven forthwith, but lying or even worse, deluding yourself into thinking that making a smarta$$ed crack about my overlooking the support and assistance of my wife, Mitch, that was classless crap. I don't hold it against you, I just think it was childish and unecesary, if you find that sort of thing funny..you are in a canoe alone.

It just seems you are incapable of saying anything that isn't delivered with the back of your hand. You want to seriously discuss hate crimes sometime, I'm game. You want to pass off some sort of mitigating comment about Aetheist web sites and then pretend it wasn't a metaphor for the left in general when the right, and you on occassion, constantly complain about how the left is anti-God, you're either lying, or fooling yourself.

I can take rough words, you seem to get offended pretty easily, and I'm sorry, saying bzzt. wrong doesn't mean anything more than you like annoying sounds. You get pissy. But yet again, here we are Mitch, you want to talk about hate crimes, be happy to, you want to exchange insults.. well, it shows the maturity level of the blog. But talk about something would require you to actually acknowledge facts you don't find comfortable, in order that we could build on the dialogue to a reasonable conclusion. See I actually think you might have something valid to say, and consider it might mean I would have to move my position. You, OTOH, already know everything.

Oh, and by the way, Limbaugh is about as abrasive as Kare 11 morning show, yeah, like the time he called Nazi's communists, and then called the left communists, ergo, the left are really fascists. And then there was the time he said that cows produce more air pollution than people.. and then there was the time he claimed there were more acres of forest today, than when the pilgrims landed.. By the way, I heard each of those claims, they aren't blog crap.. or culled from the web, I listen to Mr. Fun with some regularity, just to remind myself what a vile, horrible, disgusting human being he really really is. But, you know, I think Kare11 Morning team was having their maid score Oxycontin for them too.. so maybe Mitch is right... wait, we already know he's always right.

Yep, Limbaugh is all warm and fuzzy. For a propogandist sociopath, he's a peach.

PB

BTW Mitch..

I assume you'll castigate the President for not waiting until the investigation is done before declaring the Air Marshals acted correctly in the story below?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/08/airplane.gunshot/index.html

Just to be clear, when I first heard about this, I accepted essentially on faith that they had acted correctly. After reading, not so sure, but not sure they didn't. Point is, if you subscribe to the "wait for the trial", then stand up and be counted.

" Point is, if you subscribe to the "wait for the trial", then stand up and be counted."

In re: Mirecki, that's all I've *ever* said. Everything else is words you've jammed down my throat.

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