This is fascinating - especially given the fellow's Colorado connections. Our press here has been predictably silent regarding the very possibility of this kid's involvement with the jihadist movement.

I'm especially anxious to see confirmation that the explosive used in his backpack was TATP. TATP is extraordinarily unstable, has a high detonation velocity (it's powerful), and is the homemade explosive of choice for Hamas, and countless other Islamist groups.

"...has a high detonation velocity (it's powerful)...."

A minor technical point, detonation velocity != power, though there is some correlation. The difference between very fast detonations and slower detonations (or even deflagrations) is one of kind, not necessarily degree.

An example told to me some years ago involved using different explosives on a large boulder. C4 (a fast plastic explosive) caused the exterior of the boulder to spall (flake off). OTOH, TNT (a slower explosive) caused the boulder to break in half.

I'll not speculate on the "sweet spot" for a suicide bomb.

"Fast" explosives (C4) burn things.

"Slow" explosives (TNT, Ammonium Nitrate) push things.

Both are perfectly useful for anti-personnel devices; human beings are vulnerable to both burning and pushing.

So the media will attempt to hide and deny this evidence because...???

Somebody, quick, get a hold of Jayna Davis, author of "The Third Terrorist : The Middle East Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing"

You're right, regarding the detonation velocity matter. I should have been more precise in my language, though, depending on the implementation of the explosive in question, there is a correlation.

What's interesting to me is the nature of a TATP detonation, which isn't super-fast (a little over 17,000fps, if I remember correclty), and doesn't produce much heat, is that it does produce tremendous blast pressure (making it ideal for an enclosed space, like a bus, for instance). As one source described, "The explosion of TATP involves entropy burst, which is the result of formation of one ozone and three acetone molecules from every molecule of TATP in the solid state. Just a few hundred grams of the material produce hundreds of litres of gas in a fraction of a second." Big pressure - little heat. Very unique.

What's been surprising to me, Mitch, is that TNT is actually a fairly fast explosive, with a detonation velocity of over 22,000fps, whereas, as you've described, dry agents like ANFO tend to be quite slow, with detonation velocities of around half that number. I had always worked under the assumption that the two were fairly similar in their characteristics.

I should point out, I'm not an explosives expert, by any means. I do work with and round high explosives on a semi-regular basis, however, as part of our Center's work with law enforcement agencies in IED and basic explosives training. It's a field of interest, but certainly not of expertise, for me.

Granted there is a liberal canard I should be following (being one myself) that we should have invaded Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq (understanding of course this is not a seriously proposed course of action), but there is an element of truth there which ties directly into this bombing which I would like to explore.

That there are strong ties between the Al Quaida movement, the Saudi Education Ministry, Jihadists in general, Wahabism, and the Islamic Brotherhood has, I believe, already been well established. What we see, in my belief, is a graduated spectrum at one end of which is Al Quaida. At the other end is the general background attitude within the middle-east of Islamic Supremacy, which is rooted in the argument that as Islam is the third and final revelation of God to his people, that it is naturally superior to all other beliefs and therefore its followers are naturally superior to all others for they have seen the true light.

Going after terrorists is necessary, of course. And it is probably a good thing that we are in Iraq because our presence there is gradually drawing down the pool of trained and competent islamic terrorists. But we need to do more; all we are doing right now is depleting THIS GENERATION's pool of Islamic terrorism.

Shut down all the mosques? No, of course not. We are not at war with Islam, but I think it is foolish not to recognize that there is a strain of Islam which is at war with us, sometimes with bombs but more often than not with leaflets.

We need to craft laws which allow us to go after those who distribute the hate-filled fallacies on the literature table at most mosques, even the ones with the offical stamp from Saudi-backed organizations. We need to identify and screen out speakers who advocate hatred and violence. We need to find ways to severely limit the activities of the Saudi education ministry and its front groups when they engage in activites detremental to our own interests.

Longer term? We'll just have to find some way to force the idiots in that part of the world to grow up. Well, the idiots with power, at any rate. In the long run after the oil runs dry that region will probably fall under the influence [occupation] of one of the more (moderating?) powers in the area as it has in the past, but right now ... sigh.

The downside for us? We'll probably need a massive domestic intelligence service made up of 1st and 2nd generation arabic speakers - the kid who grew up in Rochester, NY just isn't going to cut it - and we'll need laws which tread dangerously close to curtailing "hate speech", if not actually crossing that line.

Or, we could fall asleep again once the current crop of problems are over with, and wait for a new generation of Islamisupremicists...

My knowledge of explosives is that of an interested amateur, as well. Still, TATP sounds like it's useful primarily because it's easy to make. No pro would use anything this unstable when there's much better stuff available. This argues to me that better stuff wasn't available to Hinrichs, or that he was an idiot, or both.

FWIW, the descriptions of TATP remind me of NI3 (speaking of stupid men's field expedient explosives). Exactly how lucky do you feel today?

It looks to me as if Hinrich wasn't as lucky as he thought he would be. I wonder if this requires another Law of the Universe?

"There's old [bombers], and there's bold [bombers], but there ain't no old, bold [bombers]."

Goodness knows I'd never be around the stuff willingly...

It does have its advantages, though; if the person who's cooking it up knows what he/she's doing, it's quite possible (so they say) to whip up a batch of TATP that is more powerful than standard military analogs, and nearly impossible to detect using standardized equipment (much like Semtex). It's what they call a "transparent" explosive.

On the other hand, this, of course, assumes that they don't blow their fingers off in the process. It's a real shame when this happens to the Hamas boys, eh?

"It's a real shame...."

Yeah, imagine me crying in my beer. It'll be a good test of your imagination. 8-)

(I wonder if science students still talk about stupid NI3 tricks? Somehow I suspect that the limited amusement value of explosive practical jokes has been rather reduced by the current situation, but 20 years ago everyone seemed to know someone who....)

Jared,

Thanks for the primer (as it were). My whole background in the field comes from a field demolitions manual that a pal of mine (a combat engineer in the National Guard) gave me once upon a time.

Bill: You have captured the complexity of the whole situation very well.

Doug: I have a hunch there's been a big crackdown on explosives tricks.

Mitch,
Drop me a line at my e-mail address and I will give you some interesting insight that probably won't see the light of day anytime soon.

d