Wow, Mitch the cliches and hackneyed received wisdom are flying so fast right now it's hard to even know where to start and since I'm heading to a guitar shop in LaCrosse in about a half hour I'll be brief (but this isn't over).

You sound exactly like a leftist with your EVEEELLL BIG CORPORATIONS Nashville cliches. Gretchen's songs are written by her, John Rich from BNR and a few other people. Her records are produced by her, John Rich and one other dude.

She sings about what normal, red-blooded Americans like to hear about and what country has sung about for generations, God, the Flag, cheatin' and it's consequences, their families.

She's a huge talent, straight out the traila (as Kid Rock might say) who's going to be here for a long time.

Oh, and she isn't a socialist. That matters.

"You sound exactly like a leftist with your EVEEELLL BIG CORPORATIONS Nashville cliches."

It's not a cliche if it's true, JB - and it IS true in C&W. You can maintain all sorts of ideological delusions about the industry if you like. I only worked *in the business*, though. What would I know?

"Gretchen's songs are written by her, John Rich from BNR and a few other people. Her records are produced by her, John Rich and one other dude."

Well, that's a good thing. There might be hope for her.

"Oh, and she isn't a socialist. That matters."

And again - why? What is the "price" I "Pay"?

I find myself in complete agreement with your first 2 points about county music. :-)

Delbert McClinton. Period. Geez, I can't believe Delbert's gonna be 65 this year. He sounds as good as ever, though, so perhaps there's hope for us all....

Also, the fact that Delbert has produced transcendent music in, if not obscurity, at most relatively quiet success, while people like Garth Brooks have live network specials, is indicative of the truth in Mitch's characterization of the industry.

I think the reason so many "corporate clones" get airtime on the radio is because most people have that kind of "taste" in music. Almost all the rock music I have ever liked a lot was never played on the radio-I liked Black Sabbath...they were playing The Archies...I like Steve Earle...they are playing Shania Twain (oh my God....shoot me now). Twas ever thus. I guess I'm being snobbish and saying the majority of people haven't got much scope no matter what music genre they like. If it isn't right out in front of them, they have no idea it exists and never will.

Still agree with JB Doubtless on the socialist "artists" though...if you contribute to their number of either "fans" or income, you are giving the impression that there are many that agree with their "politics" and so add fuel to the fire that conservatives are few in number.

Curious..there are no country songs about gay cowboys and cowgrrrlz riding the range.

Does Michele Bachmann ride a horse? If she does, would she support theocratic legislation to keep all of the gay cowboys and grrrlz from riding the range?

Developing...

Read my blog.

Re Eva's post: what the hell? (And could we PLEASE not have girls spelled with lots of rrrr's EVER again?!). Or with a "z" at the end....

Anyway, one thing I have to hand to Mitch (Springsteen fan though he is)...if you like Dwight Yoakum, you're not completely misguided! I

Mitch's "hackneyed cliches" and "received wisdom" have the added benefit of being dead-on.

I'm a wild-eyed Georgia redneck who spent ten years as a side man in a bunch of country bands. I am a flaming bible belt Republican, and a US Navy veteran.

And the mainline country music industry IS entirely controlled by the record labels. That's not saying "big baaaad corporations" like some liberal. It's calling it as it is. It's not "liberal" and "cliche" to say Microsoft or NASCAR or General Motors has a controlling position in a market, is it?

And yes, you DO have to get over on a bunch of executives to make it in Nashville. Mainstream country (unless you're a pro songwriter) has little to do with music, and all with looks, style, marketing and who you know.

Take off the rose colored glasses, JB, and don't let your ideology cloud reality. Country is like Hollywood - just a little more Republican. (And not even as Republican as you may think)

Country music is, and just always has been, a heavily controlled genre. As such, it's not that different than pop, frankly. There have been those fighting the trends, but they're the exception and generally don't win too long.

However, given the general properties of most music genres these days, the thing I really like about country music is that I can generally let my kids listen to it and not worry about them. Try that with the pop and (c)rap stations around here these days.

So the liberals are wrong when they talk about WalMart and Haliburton being EVEELL CORPORATIONS! but you guys are right for pulling out the same tired cliches about Nashville?

Please!

I will put the caliber of music coming out of Nashville right now on par with anything. The problem is, though, you actually have to like country music or I really don't care what you think about it since you probably think the joke about "What do you get when you play a country song backwards" joke is funny.

And Mitch, the cup of coffee you had in your short radio career does not make you some kind of industry insider. Working the 2am to 6am shift in Dogweed, North Dakota does not qualify you as an expert in anything.

"So the liberals are wrong when they talk about WalMart and Haliburton being EVEELL CORPORATIONS! but you guys are right for pulling out the same tired cliches about Nashville?"

It's not either-or. There's nothing about size or corporate status that makes a company either EEEVUL (damn, I'm getting tired of that spelling) *or* above criticism.

"I will put the caliber of music coming out of Nashville right now on par with anything."

File under "damnation with faint praise". Music in general is in a lousy state these days. In terms of overall product quality, C&W is actually probably doing a better than most pop genres. C&W has had its up and down swings, too - it was great in the early seventies, awful in the late seventies and early nineties...

"The problem is, though, you actually have to like country music or I really don't care what you think about it since you probably think the joke about "What do you get when you play a country song backwards" joke is funny."

Again, there's nothing either/or about it. I don't make a point of liking *any* entire genre, since implicit in that is the notion that I'm buying an entire bill of goods. There's quite a bit of country I like and have liked over the years. I believe as Leonard Bernstein did; 5% of any genre of music, whether it's classical or 12-tone or techno or country or bulgarian folk music or whatever is good. The other 95% is crap. I'll enjoy the 5% of any genre on its own terms. And, by the way, unless it's overtly political music, I remain uncaring about the politics of the artist involved, and STILL am waiting for you to tell me what "the price" I "pay" for believing this is.

And when you phrase it as "either you like [the genre] or I don't care what you think about it..." - well, then why talk at all?

(Hmmm - "Either you dig Springsteen or your opinion doesn't matter to me". Wow. That'd make things *so* much simpler, wouldn't it?)

"And Mitch, the cup of coffee you had in your short radio career does not make you some kind of industry insider."

But the gallons I drank in the 13 years I did in the business do, in fact, make me a HELL of a lot more knowledgeable than being a mere uncritical fan, akin to some squealing 13-year-old who's got her walls plastered with pictures of Justin Timberlake, does.

" Working the 2am to 6am shift in Dogweed, North Dakota does not qualify you as an expert in anything."

Moreso than someone who didn't work that shift. Or midmornings in Minneapolis, for that matter. Because yes, JB, having seen how the country radio machine works, I do indeed know more about it than you do. And always will. There can be no rational debate on that point.

Still waiting on the "price", JB. I'm starting to think you don't really know what it is.

JB, give it up, you're not only wrong, you're starting to bore the crap out of people who actually know something about C&W.

Eva, hard to believe you've never listened to k.d. lang, because if you had you wouldn't've popped off with that remark from the warning track in left field.

Mitch, you're right - you can listen to any kind of music you want by any kind of idiots you want and not get your mind warped by their message. Proof positive of this is that U2 hasn't convinced millions to come home to Christianity, when they're pretty much the only world-caliber band in that genre. As for country music that never made it on the radio, I personally prefer the cowpunk of Jason & The Scorchers (who were on the radio for maybe 4 minutes with "White Lies" once upon a time) and James McMurtry. His politics suck, but the boy can play guitar, write songs, and set the stage on fire in a live show. I reckon he'll get played on K102 after I win the Powerball and buy the station, but not before.

Mitch, the Dixie Chicks? Why man, why? Political views aside, I've never found anything to like about their music. I usually put them in the same category as Shania Twain and a few others: popular artists for reasons I don't understand.

My recommendations: Montgomery Gentry and Nickel Creek. The former is the best of any recent rockin' country, while the latter is more bluegrass/contemporary folk, but a treat to listen to.

Six,

Dunno, I just like some of the stuff I've heard from the chicks. I know they're Nashville product - but unlike Shania Twain, they just work for me.

I like Gentry, and I've seen Nickel Creek. Great stuff.