shotbanner.jpeg

August 04, 2005

Inevitable: Death, Taxes, Rebecca Thoman Being A Dim Bulb

Rebecca Thoman - president of Citizens for a Supine "Safer" Minnesota, an astroturf lobbying group composed primarily of Volvo-driving, alpaca-clad, Utne-reading Highland Park matrons, and politicians trying to curry favor with same - has a letter in today's Strib.

In the same alternate universe in which CFS"S"M is a legitimate grassroots group, Rebecca Thoman is a cogent, capable commentator.

Court was inevitable

The state of Minnesota is being dragged back into court because our legislators and governor cared more about serving a narrow interest group than they did about respecting religious freedom when they reinstated concealed-carry.

Which is, of course, baked wind.

Rights don't impose on other rights. Nothing - nothing - about my exercise of the right to self-defense affects your relationship with God. And your freedom of worship doesn't extend to allowing whatever aesthetic revulsion you might feel about legal ownership and the legal right to defend oneself extend outside your sanctuary. Not that I will ever patronize a church that restricts concealed carry, anyway.

Lawmakers were told that if religious institutions' concerns weren't addressed another lawsuit was inevitable. But they chose to reject common-sense amendments that would have rectified the problem. They let their fear of the gun lobby prevail.
On the one hand, the "fear" is justified; the people of Minnesota turned out most of the legislators that opposed the bill (outside the core metro area, anyway).

And more germane to Ms. Thoman's point, they chose to avoid adding loopholes to the law that unscrupulous or overly-dim city governments could re-expand into prohibition.

Here's the applicable section of the law, with emphasis added:

11.6 Subd. 17. [POSTING; TRESPASS.] (a) A person carrying a
11.7 firearm on or about his or her person or clothes under a permit
11.8 or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that
11.9 the operator of the establishment or its agent has made a
11.10 reasonable request that firearms not be brought into the
11.11 establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person
11.12 who fails to leave when so requested is guilty of a petty
11.13 misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25.
11.14 Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation
11.15 of this subdivision is not subject to forfeiture.
11.16 (b) As used in this subdivision, the terms in this
11.17 paragraph have the meanings given.
11.18 (1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the
11.19 following circumstances:
11.20 (i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign
11.21 at every entrance to the establishment containing the following
11.22 language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR) BANS GUNS IN THESE
11.23 PREMISES."; and or
11.24 (ii) the requester or its the requester's agent personally
11.25 informs the person of the posted request that guns are
11.26 prohibited in the premises and demands compliance.
11.27 (2) "Prominently" means readily visible and within four
11.28 feet laterally of the entrance with the bottom of the sign at a
11.29 height of four to six feet above the floor.
11.30 (3) "Conspicuous" means lettering in black arial typeface
11.31 at least 1-1/2 inches in height against a bright contrasting
11.32 background that is at least 187 square inches in area.
11.33 (4) "Private establishment" means a building, structure, or
11.34 portion thereof that is owned, leased, controlled, or operated
11.35 by a nongovernmental entity for a nongovernmental purpose.
11.36 (c) The owner or operator of a private establishment may
12.1 not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a
12.2 parking facility or parking area.
12.3 (d) This subdivision does not apply to private residences.
12.4 The lawful possessor of a private residence may prohibit
12.5 firearms, and provide notice thereof, in any lawful manner.
12.6 (e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or
12.7 possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.
12.8 (f) Notwithstanding any inconsistent provisions in section
12.9 609.605, this subdivision sets forth the exclusive criteria to
12.10 notify a permit holder when otherwise lawful firearm possession
12.11 is not allowed in a private establishment and sets forth the
12.12 exclusive penalty for such activity.
12.13 (g) This subdivision does not apply to:
12.14 (1) an on-duty active licensed peace officer; or
12.15 (2) a security guard acting in the course and scope of
12.16 employment.
Fairly simple, no? You tell people not to carry on your (church's) property. They don't. It's simple.

The religious organizations involved in these petty, self-aggrandizing suits have no theological justification, much less a political or legal one. Indeed - awash in smug self-righteousness, they are at the very least dupes of politically-ambitious parishioners who are manipulating the fears of their fellows. At worst, they're engaged in the mortal sin of pride - awash in pietistic hubris, they want to break the rest of the community to their self-righteous will.

Minnesotans shouldn't be surprised that we have another expensive legal battle on our hands; it was our elected officials' choice.
Right.

The choice they were elected to make.

The choice they made in greater numbers than two years ago.

The choice that plump-with-phony-piety chuzzlewits like Rebecca Thoman and her ilk want to nullify by edict from a tame judge.

If you want to keep fighting this battle, Rebecca Thoman, you've got the right enemy right here.

By the way - I have twice called Rebecca Thoman to invite her on the Northern Alliance Radio Network. She hasn't even had the courtesy to return my call, much less the courage to accept.

Typical - a cowardly leader for a cowardly movement.

Posted by Mitch at August 4, 2005 12:29 PM | TrackBack
Comments

Presumably these churches have "No Smoking" signs inside their buildings. Do they also insist that no one smoke in their parking lots as well?

Posted by: Night Writer at August 4, 2005 01:49 PM

and the ever-present examples of the mandatory Exit signs, handicap parking, and stop signs in the parking lots.

What a bunch of pompous gasbags.

Posted by: Gene K at August 4, 2005 07:54 PM

The "common sense" amendment that would have avoided this problem would have forbade carry in churches.

Which I find entirely unacceptable, not to mention a clear violation of the free exercise clause.

The State has no business determining whether a church should forbid, allow, or mandate that parishioners carry guns. It's a decision that is properly placed in the hands of the individual church.

And the current law does just that. Any church that does not want guns is fully authorized under the law to ban guns.

The only requirement is that the church inform people of that fact.

What they want is the ability to ban guns without having to tell people that they are banning guns.

And that I find simply absurd.

Posted by: Jeff Dege at August 4, 2005 11:19 PM

Jeff, there do have such church carry laws in other states and they are usually worded to permit carry with express permission of a church leader. That would eliminate your argument about free exercise.

I'd personally be more likely to support such a church carry amendment than I would a posting exception. Imagine the consequences of having both! They could lease property anywhere for a religious function and not post it...then charge you with a crime for not seeing their nonstandard or nonexistent posting. That would be a real injustice.

Posted by: Michael Lomker at August 5, 2005 09:02 AM

It's the Minnesota passive/aggressive thing, writ large: they don't want the risk of having to verbalize their position, or even to take the trouble to post a sign. Let a law be written forbidding the whole thing and then forget about it and get back to their casseroles in the church basement. They want to impose their socialistic world-view on the whole population without paying the price of potential confrontation. It's simply in our culture, unfortunately.

Posted by: Paul at August 5, 2005 09:14 AM

"Jeff, there do have such church carry laws in other states and they are usually worded to permit carry with express permission of a church leader."

I don't have it in front of me, but my recollection is that Skoglund's amendment contained no such exception. It banned carry in churches.

Posted by: Jeff Dege at August 5, 2005 11:27 AM

Check out these pet supplies online for decent prices - http://www.petsuppliesonline.org

Posted by: Pet Supplies Online at November 26, 2005 05:40 PM

Check out these pet supplies online for decent prices - http://www.petsuppliesonline.org

Posted by: Pet Supplies Online at November 26, 2005 05:40 PM

Thanks!!! furniture Very nice site.I enjoy being here.

Posted by: furniture at July 7, 2006 09:17 AM

Thanks!!! furniture Very nice site.I enjoy being here.

Posted by: furniture at July 7, 2006 09:24 AM
Post a comment









Remember personal info?
hi