Yeah, cause rightwing college students sure don't look for deferments...

Bush-cough
Cheney-cough
Limbaugh-cough, cough

What a laugh, most recruits are below median income line, last time I looked, a very slight majority voted Democratic.. so it would appear that maybe it's not only the left-wing that sends other peoples sons and daughters to war, it's the right. You know.. just a thought anyway..

I served 12 years in the Army and Reserves, Mitch.. did you serve in the Military?

If not, now's the perfect time to sign up for what you believe in. Let me get you that recruiter number, as I understand it, they are going to up the age limit.

"I served 12 years in the Army and Reserves, Mitch.. did you serve in the Military?"

Nope.

And if they military raises their age limit to 42 and starts taking people with bum knees and kids to mind, let me know.

Hey - I've spent 14+ years in the media. Did you spend any? No? Then you'd best spend some time in it before you comment...

Um, PB? I think the joke was that there is no draft coming. You seem to be taking this a little to seriously.

PB,

"What a laugh, most recruits are below median income line, last time I looked, a very slight majority voted Democratic..."

And yet after they're in the service any length of time, they vote GOP by a 30 point margin (2004 numbers).

Go figure.

"I served 12 years in the Army and Reserves, Mitch.. did you serve in the Military?"

So where does that criterion stop for you, PB? Should people in government have served in the military? Why not have a military dictatorship - that'd be perfect, huh?

"If not, now's the perfect time to sign up for what you believe in. Let me get you that recruiter number, as I understand it, they are going to up the age limit."

PB - puhleeze. I thought you were better than that.

Nah.. I got the joke, I just found another I thought was funnier.

PB..

Also Mitch, I have worked in the Media (that is if you count writing for HS and College Papers).. oh my HS paper had a circulation of 25,000.. does 1280 have a listenership that high? So... :).

Regardless, my point is that it's amazing that folks are ready to send other's sons and daughters, but not their own. They look for reasons to NOT sign up, regardless of the realities of voluntary military, the Bush duaghters certainly could enlist... and I'd bet you could have joined in 1991 - but this really isn't directed too much at you...I don't really believe you ought to go, I know you, and you're old :)... I do believe if you want to poke fun at those who are concerned about a non-existent draft to sustain a military the DoD says can't sustain this pace past next June (if that far), then you need to not live in the glass house of supporting a group that a. Oppossed Bosnia (a humanitarian mission designed to prevent genocide and to help bring about the downfall of a despot), and b. That manifestly fell all over itself deffering, ignoring, and otherwise looked to get out of it's responsibilities to support the ideals you aspouse.

I think THAT's funny!

PB

PS I think anyone has more than just the right to comment, regardless of background, but the obligation if their words can be said civily, and carry at least some worth. So NO Mitch, I wasn't in anyway implying that you cannot or should not comment on the subject of deferrment. My point was that if you believe, sign up.. and the you there is a metaphor not applied to MITCH, but it sure is instructive that you'd be self-concious/insecure enough to think that I was saying you aren't allowed an opinion because you were not in the military. Heinlien proposed a society where only veterans can vote, and while I understood his point, only those who faught/served udnerstand the sacrifice, I don't agree, civilian oversight is needed, is desirable, and more than that, peace is the normal state for a nation to pursue. Service is a qualification for determining whether war is appropriate perhaps, but it does little to qaulify you to cure our health care system.

PB

"Also Mitch, I have worked in the Media (that is if you count writing for HS and College Papers)..
oh my HS paper had a circulation of 25,000.."

Ah. I bow to your expertise. ;-)

"does 1280 have a listenership that high?"

Er, yes.

"Regardless, my point is that it's amazing that folks are ready to send other's sons and daughters, but not their own."

Let's hold on right there.

Nothing personal, but does the groaning arrogance of that statement strike you yet?

I have two kids, including a son who's six years away from military age. I've said it before on this blog - if I *could* join the military and play SOME role in ending this war before he had to think about it, I would. *In a second*. And I'll kick the ass (not speaking even remotely metaphorically, here) of any "chicken-hawk!" chanting droog who claims otherwise. I love my kids more than anything in this world, and know enough about war to know it's the last thing I want my kids to go through.

So let's kindly stop the gross assumptions, shall we? (And I'm not speaking primarily to PB here...)

" They look for reasons to NOT sign up, regardless of the realities of voluntary military, the Bush duaghters certainly could enlist... and I'd bet you could have joined in 1991"

I actually tried in 1990. My fiance at the time talked me out of it. It's something I occasionally regret (along with many other things from that time of my life).

"PS I think anyone has more than just the right to comment, regardless of background, but the obligation if their words can be said civily, and carry at least some worth. So NO Mitch, I wasn't in anyway implying that you cannot or should not comment on the subject of deferrment. My point was that if you believe, sign up.. and the you there is a metaphor not applied to MITCH, but it sure is instructive that you'd be self-concious/insecure enough to think that I was saying you aren't allowed an opinion because you were not in the military."

Er, I was also writing more broadly than that...

THere is no insecurity whatsoever.

We agree on many things...

Including folks who say, "Go Team." from the sidelines.

I lectured plenty of soldiers in 1991, on Geneva Convention Protocol, AND AND AND...on the fact that if any of them .. jerks.. thought joining the military was about money for college, they were out of their rabbit-butted minds, they gave you money for college so that they could call upon you to serve in combat.. and if you misunderstood that, get the hell out of my AO. As a soldier, you agreed to be an instrument of policy, during administrations you agreed with, and those you didn't.

PB

So... Mitch, your comments may not have been meant primarily for me, they need not have been to me, or many other democratic soldiers, whether you consider those who served and complain about the readiness of others to send them back to war, groaning arrogance, or not.

BTW Mitch, the fact that the military votes republican 65/35, is entirely irrelevant, we were talking about those who had not yet signed up and that so many of those who do are coming from a class of people that is decidedly Democratic.

That they might become pro-Republican after enlistment is really not a surprise. Their own leadership makes it politically ill-advised to be openly otherwise, tells them Republicans are their friends because they buy them all these cool toys, etc..

Yet, when push comes to shove, they put them into an unwinnable situation in Iraq, send them back for 3 tours, stretch them too thin, give them inadquate equipment for the mission, attempt to deny combat pay and disability pay to save on budgets, skrimp on paying for radio jamming and armor equipment for vehicles, lie about armor production capacity, and pretty much piss down the throats of the soldiers.

I'll tell you that knowing MANY soldiers, I know many who have ZERO trust for this administration any longer. I used to tell my peers that I felt Republicans viewed us as nothing more than bodies to be spent at their whim, and they've gone about proving it.

Also Mitch, exit polls show Bush's vote numbers in 2004, 57% Bush, 41% Kerry, among those who have served in the military.. not quite 30 points..and as military absentee ballots get mixed in with other overseas ballots, I can't find anywhere that gives figures on current staff..perhaps you can?

PB

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