Lost In Translation
Andrew Sullivan says re: Londoners' reaction to the attacks:
Stoicism is not an American virtue.
Dunno, Andrew. If the terrorists ever attacked Fargo or Duluth, the dominant sound bite would likely be "Enh. Coulda been worse".
Apart from a sense of humor, it is the ultimate British one.
And in Fargo, not so much.
More on the Brit character, with Brit blogger Tim Worstall (via Sully):
tomorrow we'll find out whether Britons are, still, in fact, Britons. Many years ago I was working in The City and there were two events that made travel into work almost impossible.
The first was a series of storms that brought down power lines, blocked train routes and so on. Not surprisingly, the place was empty the next day. Why bother to struggle through?
The other event was an IRA bomb which caused massive damage and loss of life. Trains were disrupted, travel to work the next day was horribly difficult and yet there were more people at work than on a normal day. There was no co-ordination to this, no instructions went out, but it appeared that people were crawling off their sick beds in order to be there at work the next day, thrusting their mewling and pewling infants into the arms of anyone at all so that they could be there.
Yes, we'll take an excuse for a day off, throw a sickie. But you threaten us, try to kill us? Kill and injure some of us?
F__k you, sunshine.
We'll not be having that.
No grand demonstrations, few warlike chants, a desire for revenge, of course, but the reaction of the average man and woman in the street? Yes, you’ve tried it now bugger off. We’re not scared, no, you won’t change us. Even if we are scared, you can still bugger off."
I wonder if there are any streaming traffic reports from London...
Posted by Mitch at
July 7, 2005 06:25 PM
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I think London's history does give their stoicism a much different stamp than an American "Enh. Coulda been worse". That city has endured world wars, an ongoing terrorist campaign, and blitzkriegs.
Not saying it's better or worse than us - their stoicism - and I don't think Sullivan is saying that either. It's just interesting, that's all.
Posted by: red at July 7, 2005 04:36 PMRed,
I'm not really comparing the two. Just pointing out an American archtype that Sully may not have met.
Scandinavian stoicism is different than Brit stiff upper lip - there's a passive-aggressive competitiveness to it. "That bomb was somethin', ya. But the bombs when *I* was a kid" Ooffda. They were bigger, you bet".
Just observing.
Posted by: mitch at July 7, 2005 04:47 PMhahaha Scandinavian passive-aggressiveness. Love it! Kind of like: "I walked to the school barefoot through miles of snow when I was a child ... what are you complaining about"?
Posted by: red at July 7, 2005 04:50 PMExACTly!
Posted by: mitch at July 7, 2005 04:53 PMI think the terrorists believed we would crumble like the WTC because they have misunderstood us and think we are soft and weak. But our response that day (especially in how we handled our own emergency, and then how quickly the clean-up happened - unbelieavble) showed them wrong.
If I had to characterize New York in those days, and New Yorkers, I wouldn't say 'stoic' - I would say: "gritty", and "nose to the grindstone determined", mixed in with a hell of a lot of compassion for others. I remember the first time I heard a taxi driver shout at a pedestrian again and I got all choked up - because it meant to me that we were getting back to normal. We were going to be okay.
I don't know if that makes sense. Only in NYC would RUDENESS be a sign of mental health, but it really really was.
Posted by: red at July 7, 2005 04:57 PMI've heard other friends from NY/NJ say the same thing.
It really amazed me. While I outgrew my midwestern distrust of all things New York early on, I remember the New York of the '77 blackout ('76? '75?) and the Dinkins era, and wouldn't have bet the city would have acted like it did.
I remember when I interviewed for a talk radio job in Manhattan in '88. The boss told me "All you gotta do is talk race relations for five hours a night. No show prep, no nothin'".
So deep down inside, it did surprise me when the sky didn't fall...
Posted by: mitch at July 7, 2005 05:08 PMThere's also a Southern stoicism, that was a little confusing for this Yankee, because it comes with a lot verbal butter and sugar. Halfway down the block, you realize that what they really meant was "mind your own damn business," but it sounded so sweet at the time.
Posted by: RBMN at July 7, 2005 06:05 PMRBMN - that is absolutely classic. I love it!! Gives me a funny idea for a small book - sort of an internal translation guide for Americans. To the Yankee: how to interpret the south. To the midwesterner: how to interpret the Californian. Little tips like the one you gave right there ... "Oh, so that's what that person meant!"
Posted by: red at July 7, 2005 07:04 PMmitch - absolutely. I remember New York in the 70s from when I was a kid, and it was a dangerous dirty town. Amazing and ironic how much flak Guiliani got for beefing up the police force, and enforcing law and order ... and then it all paid off tenfold on that horrible day. There was an infrastructure in place. Certainly not perfect. I read the 9/11 report - I know how the FDNY and police department wouldn't cooperate, yadda yadda ... but in general: the city was a MUCH more structured organized place.
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